Has Des improved anyone?

[Bearfax]

Hindsight heroes are a dime a dozen on this site. Seriously, it's about time you all got over yourself, and realised that being right in hindsight is not a massive achievement.

Actually, being right in hindsight is almost as bad as the clueless dribblers and Sea Eagle heretics who dared to ask questions about team selections, coaching decisions,
club direction and player motivation after losing 15 from 18 games.
Wankers.

Yes the second paragraph was sarcasm.

Simmo66 I didnt say what I said in hindsight. I was saying this last year when Manly were in dire straits and suggesting then that I thought Des was being too conservative and not wanting to take risks. And the point was based on the fact that he was only making changes when injuries were occurring, despite the poor performance of the team. Then when he was forced to make those changes late in the year, a number of the players he put in produced better than the ones who were injured. It wasnt hindsight, it was foresight, predicting what would probably happen.

 

[Eagles4Life]

Simmo66 I didnt say what I said in hindsight. I was saying this last year when Manly were in dire straits and suggesting then that I thought Des was being too conservative and not wanting to take risks. And the point was based on the fact that he was only making changes when injuries were occurring, despite the poor performance of the team. Then when he was forced to make those changes late in the year, a number of the players he put in produced better than the ones who were injured. It wasnt hindsight, it was foresight, predicting what would probably happen.

Wasn't directed at you Bearfax, and it's not aimed at any specific member posting in this thread either. It's simply a comment of mine, on the resurrection of threads, for point scoring purposes only.
Your perspective last year on team selection, and how that has translated into results in 2021 seems pretty accurate to me.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

I would like to point out that at the end of Round 4 this year (hardly ancient history) we had 15 losses from our previous 18 games. Including two 40+ point defeats this year.

IMO it's a bit rich to use the benefit of hindsight to call people 'dribblers' for being unhappy about that and asking questions at the time.

I think the thing that irritates many on here the most is not constructive criticism but the totally ridiculous posts by some on here that one minute want to string up the playing group and coach only to now want to root them all.

Of course there were issues last year and yes there were issues up till round 5 but the absolute bitchfest that was going on was so piss-weak .

Those same players from the 'bad run' almost took us to the prelim final in 2019 with all of us on the bus.

This side always had the talent and class to excel and we just needed to give them a chance to fire up insted of deathriding from the loungeroom.

I doubt anyone on here could hold a candel to the work and commitment that Des brings to the role of head coach. Yet some think they know best when in fact all they are sprouting is BS.

 

[Eagles4Life]

Has Des improved anyone? Pretty much every player in the whole squad has improved since Round Four. I can't think of any player (who has made the seventeen since that time), who hasn't improved......except perhaps Funa.

 

[globaleagle]

I just always thought the OP was a dogs supporter as 99% of all posts seems to be in the negative re Manly. So I never mind hindsight 'observations' on our resident - err - lets say trolls.

I could be mistaken though (all these years thinking that...lol)

I know we have a Parra muppet but he/she/they don't hide it; we have a storm troll that waxes on lyrically ad nauseum and doesn't believe the 40-0 victory was a real victory, and another one that just comes on here when we're losing and is quite 'limited' in it's scope of slagging Manly off... but yes, I just always assumed the OP was a dogs supporter.

 

[Kevinward777]

I just always thought the OP was a dogs supporter as 99% of all posts seems to be in the negative re Manly. So I never mind hindsight 'observations' on our resident - err - lets say trolls.

I could be mistaken though (all these years thinking that...lol)

I know we have a Parra muppet but he/she/they don't hide it; we have a storm troll that waxes on lyrically ad nauseum and doesn't believe the 40-0 victory was a real victory, and another one that just comes on here when we're losing and is quite 'limited' in it's scope of slagging Manly off... but yes, I just always assumed the OP was a dogs supporter.

Yep

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

I think the thing that irritates many on here the most is not constructive criticism but the totally ridiculous posts by some on here that one minute want to string up the playing group and coach only to now want to root them all.

Of course there were issues last year and yes there were issues up till round 5 but the absolute bitchfest that was going on was so piss-weak .

Those same players from the 'bad run' almost took us to the prelim final in 2019 with all of us on the bus.

This side always had the talent and class to excel and we just needed to give them a chance to fire up insted of deathriding from the loungeroom.

I doubt anyone on here could hold a candel to the work and commitment that Des brings to the role of head coach. Yet some think they know best when in fact all they are sprouting is BS.

People just fail to understand the reality of last year. It is very easy to ignore some facts. The facts are Turbo, Walker and Fainu ... 3 of our spine - the spine we had trained all off season with... gone for the year. Tell me any team which can lose 3/4 of the spine and still be a high performing team? Fact 2 when Turbo and Walker are injured - we are 4 from 6 and had only just been pipped by the Storm and Eels in super tight games. Fact 3... injuries galore besides those three over the year. Fact 4... the game changed in an instant and became touch football - a fast pace, huge defensive load if you dont have the ball, need for a bit more mobility in the forwards. We had players like Jetski and Boyle... not really high mobility highly skilled forwards for the new age game and without two attacking guns in Walker and Turbo and the other injuries our roster couldn't cope. Fact 5 - our game was built on grind them into the dust - aggressive, hard hitting wear them down football especially without Turbo and Walker. Fact 6 the Manly game based on the 2019 model which was a success was not built around a fast paced game of touch which was evoked with no warning for 2020. Fact 7 - very true that without Turbo and our disappeared spine and our lack of success our confidence was destroyed which then carried over to some degree in 2021. Fact 8 the younger players everyone wanted to play had had absolutely no football in 2020 because of COVID. Des was rightly being cautious. Fact 9 Des is a loyal very loyal coach - you have to earn the right to play or you have to prove you are not up to the mark before Des moves on. Fact 10 - the first four weeks with the injuries did force Des' hand but I am guessing Des is not as clueless as some on here think and he understood the young talent he had. Was just a matter of time and injuries presented the opportunity. Fact 11..... the club very early on re-signed Haumole and Schu - two of the young talent to longer contracts proving they were always in his long term plans. So to me it is not hindsight at all. The deathriders all jumped on and it was disgusting and the majority of them have virtually disappeared. However as I said some still harp on about Des being lucky, he has no idea, injuries forced his hand bla bla bla. We all however were upset and disappointed and rightly so. I called for a heap of players to be let go at the end of the year.... players now I admit have proved me totally wrong. Some people were actively wanting us to lose to prove their points of the club being a debacle and Des needs to go... totally disgraceful. But what I never doubted - not once was that Des and the Club but especially Des was skilled enough, experienced enough, knowledgeable enough to lead us out of that mess and he has. No luck... he is a bloody good coach. What I didn't doubt was that I knew more than Des that I had insights that Des didn't and unlike many punters on here I knew that I was not a highly skilled and talented NRL coach and I was in fact a keyboard nufty and Des knew far more than I about his reasons and his approach. The simple reality.

 

[frank stokes]

Yet some think they know best when in fact all they are sprouting is BS.

You would know EoL...

 

[Marto1970]

Well unfortunately that's an issue we'll never really know. All I can say is that late in the year when he was forced to make changes, the team started to click. Didn't do well, but they were suddenly scoring more than they had during the rest of the year. The kids he had were no younger than those Cleary was bringing up into first grade...and succeeding with them.

Yep just remember seeing Oca last year and he looks alot fitter this year

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Also forgot to add that we changed from an up and in defence to a slide defence over this off season which is a huge huge change and requires loads of time to bed in. Plus we changed our attacking structure to reflect the modern game... again a huge change. So not that strange that our first four games were ordinary. Turbo though does help a tiny bit.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Also forgot to add that we changed from an up and in defence to a slide defence over this off season which is a huge huge change and requires loads of time to bed in. Plus we changed our attacking structure to reflect the modern game... again a huge change. So not that strange that our first four games were ordinary. Turbo though does help a tiny bit.

Changes that were necessary and change was being called for by those of us that were most concerned at the time. That concern is not BS and has been vindicated by our success following changes. No one is always right nor above criticism. I admire Des for making the changes he made particularly as he is renown for being stubborn. Just because I express an opinion about things that look as thought they need attention does not mean I am suggesting I know as much as Des about coaching because I know that I never will.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Changes that were necessary and change was being called for by those of us that were most concerned at the time. That concern is not BS and has been vindicated by our success following changes. No one is always right nor above criticism. I admire Des for making the changes he made particularly as he is renown for being stubborn. Just because I express an opinion about things that look as thought they need attention does not mean I am suggesting I know as much as Des about coaching because I know that I never will.

I was just restating the facts - and calling out those that were joyous as we lost because they believed it validated their position. No more no less. I was equally vocal about the players and those we needed to move on which I have stated I have been proven totally wrong in the main. Nothing at all wrong with an opinion but many of the "opinions" were plain and simple vile vitriol.

 

[ManEagle]

People just fail to understand the reality of last year. It is very easy to ignore some facts. The facts are Turbo, Walker and Fainu ... 3 of our spine - the spine we had trained all off season with... gone for the year. Tell me any team which can lose 3/4 of the spine and still be a high performing team? Fact 2 when Turbo and Walker are injured - we are 4 from 6 and had only just been pipped by the Storm and Eels in super tight games. Fact 3... injuries galore besides those three over the year. Fact 4... the game changed in an instant and became touch football - a fast pace, huge defensive load if you dont have the ball, need for a bit more mobility in the forwards. We had players like Jetski and Boyle... not really high mobility highly skilled forwards for the new age game and without two attacking guns in Walker and Turbo and the other injuries our roster couldn't cope. Fact 5 - our game was built on grind them into the dust - aggressive, hard hitting wear them down football especially without Turbo and Walker. Fact 6 the Manly game based on the 2019 model which was a success was not built around a fast paced game of touch which was evoked with no warning for 2020. Fact 7 - very true that without Turbo and our disappeared spine and our lack of success our confidence was destroyed which then carried over to some degree in 2021. Fact 8 the younger players everyone wanted to play had had absolutely no football in 2020 because of COVID. Des was rightly being cautious. Fact 9 Des is a loyal very loyal coach - you have to earn the right to play or you have to prove you are not up to the mark before Des moves on. Fact 10 - the first four weeks with the injuries did force Des' hand but I am guessing Des is not as clueless as some on here think and he understood the young talent he had. Was just a matter of time and injuries presented the opportunity. Fact 11..... the club very early on re-signed Haumole and Schu - two of the young talent to longer contracts proving they were always in his long term plans. So to me it is not hindsight at all. The deathriders all jumped on and it was disgusting and the majority of them have virtually disappeared. However as I said some still harp on about Des being lucky, he has no idea, injuries forced his hand bla bla bla. We all however were upset and disappointed and rightly so. I called for a heap of players to be let go at the end of the year.... players now I admit have proved me totally wrong. Some people were actively wanting us to lose to prove their points of the club being a debacle and Des needs to go... totally disgraceful. But what I never doubted - not once was that Des and the Club but especially Des was skilled enough, experienced enough, knowledgeable enough to lead us out of that mess and he has. No luck... he is a bloody good coach. What I didn't doubt was that I knew more than Des that I had insights that Des didn't and unlike many punters on here I knew that I was not a highly skilled and talented NRL coach and I was in fact a keyboard nufty and Des knew far more than I about his reasons and his approach. The simple reality.

Fact 12... putting a paragraph in here and there or even a different line for each fact would make this post easier to read and a winner from me.

Fact 13 ... I didnt actually read all facts as it was like a traffic jam or at least one of those special source buns.

Fact 14.... even though I didn't read all the facts I get where your coming from and agree 100%

Fact 15 ... see Fact 14 refer Fact 12 quote Fact 13, not sure what I 100% agreed with.

Fact 16.. I'm just being an @sshole have a nice day

 

[eaglebuzz]

The team sucked from rounds 1-4, that's just how it was. Des' coaching didn't appear to be helping at the time. Whatever they've done to turn that around has obviously worked. For mine, selecting Schuster, Harper and Olakau'atu was a big part of that (Turbo coming back obviously was a massive confidence boost too).

Looking at the 17 now versus the 17 that started the season I think it's fair to say that Des did not pick his strongest 17 at season's beginning and injuries forced his hand.

 

[47MVEagle]

I'm of the firm belief Des knows what he's doing & that his hand wasn't forced by injuries.

I believe his intention was to bring Schuster, Olakau'atu, etc. into the squad once they'd played a few games at BWSE to regain match fitness.

Schuster was injured for the rest of last season after making his debut so needed some game time.

Olakau'atu was injured in the first BWSE game of the season & was brought onto the bench as soon as he recovered. He also looks fitter & leaner, suggesting Des wanted him to shed some puppy fat before coming up.

Given Suli also looks leaner than ever, I'd say Des wants all of his first graders as lean & mobile (& fit) as possible.

Obviously your prop forwards like the Sipley & De Luis types will never be lean but he'd still want them fit before giving them a first grade spot.

The rule changes have made it advantageous to have as many 80 minute players as possible on the field.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

You would know EoL...

Correct. My bull****e meter is finely tuned and together with the multi quote finger of death im happy to use the power of hindsight to call out the negative Nancy's.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

I'm of the firm belief Des knows what he's doing & that his hand wasn't forced by injuries.

I believe his intention was to bring Schuster, Olakau'atu, etc. into the squad once they'd played a few games at BWSE to regain match fitness.

Schuster was injured for the rest of last season after making his debut so needed some game time.

Olakau'atu was injured in the first BWSE game of the season & was brought onto the bench as soon as he recovered. He also looks fitter & leaner, suggesting Des wanted him to shed some puppy fat before coming up.

Given Suli also looks leaner than ever, I'd say Des wants all of his first graders as lean & mobile (& fit) as possible.

Obviously your prop forwards like the Sipley & De Luis types will never be lean but he'd still want them fit before giving them a first grade spot.

The rule changes have made it advantageous to have as many 80 minute players as possible on the field.

Agreed totally

 

[Scorpio]

Correct. My bull****e meter is finely tuned and together with the multi quote finger of death im happy to use the power of hindsight to call out the negative Nancy's.

I get that some people went a bit overboard in their criticism... but at the same time, after how many losses in close proximity do you think it fair game for people here to call out poor performances?

20 losses?
25 losses?
A wooden spoon?

Now hopefully we do not find out because that losing streak was bad enough.

 

[Moops]

That was not my thread but people are entitled to their opinions. Lest face it our performances the second half of season 2020 and the first 4 rounds this year were very poor. The fact that we are traveling well now does not rewrite that history. Historical criticisms are irrelevant and resurrecting old threads to rub in poster's noses is not clever. Our style of play and team selections have changed dramatically. Frankly without those changes we would have remained languishing at the lower end of the table. IMO calling posters dribblers is bad form and very unimpressive. i expected better on our silvertails forum.

Exactly, it is tiresome isn't it? And all these Captain Hindsight's never seem to go anywhere or take sabbaticals...they are ALWAYS here...ever present.

This place is becoming a Captain Hindsight echo chamber, while entertaining and interesting posters have been run out of town (or banned). Where the hell are Wombat64 and Biff?

* Comment DELETED by a Moderator due to a Personal Attack on another Silvertails Member *

This place has been a bit on the ho-hum side for few weeks...

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

after how many losses in close proximity do you think it fair game for people here to call out poor performances?

20 losses?
25 losses?
A wooden spoon?

Zero losses.
It is perfectly fine to call out poor performances even after a win!

As for the horrors of last season, I assume we'd rather forget (!) but this it how it went
LWWLWWLLLWWLLLLLLWLL
Obviously the wheels fell off at a certain point, after a good start. Some of the losses were close (and we got ripped off in Round 4 v Eels). However we want Ws not Ls, no debate there.