Haha Tigers, enjoy the Fulton/Peters show ...

[Ryan]

Paseka, Bullemor and Ola'akautu are certainly not slow and immobile. Neither is Ben Trbojevic. Guys like Lodge and Sipley are quite explosive for their size. Gordy very quick off the mark.

Without a doubt the whole team needs to step up tempo, aggro, and fitness but I think this is more a mental/experience issue. The group as individuals are good enough, but we are down the pecking order in terms of cohesion and grit.

You've given them a huge wrap mate - so I thought I'd take a look at our forwards last season and where they ranked in what I perceive to be their main metrics:

Post Contact metres: 12 of 17
Line Engaged: 17 of 17
All run metres: 15 of 17 (get this is shared)
All runs: 16 of 17 (get this is shared)
Kick return metres: 16 of 17
Dummy half runs: 16 of 17

So bottom 3 in all metrics, apart from post contact metres.

There could be some more / less stats, and yes, there could be outliers, reasons and excuses for the above numbers. So maybe it's like you say, we need to work more cohesively as a team. If our forwards are explosive (for their size), Paseka, Bully, B. Trbojevic and Haumole are quick as you allude to, why, on aggregate (across all metrics) are we pretty much the worst forwards team in the entire NRL stats wise?

Taken from:

Stats

The official NRL stats of the National Rugby League, NRL and NRLW player statistics, as well as NRL and NRLW competition statistics.

www.nrl.com

 

[Pete W]

You've given them a huge wrap mate - so I thought I'd take a look at our forwards last season and where they ranked in what I perceive to be their main metrics:

Post Contact metres: 12 of 17
Line Engaged: 17 of 17
All run metres: 15 of 17 (get this is shared)
All runs: 16 of 17 (get this is shared)
Kick return metres: 16 of 17
Dummy half runs: 16 of 17

So bottom 3 in all metrics, apart from post contact metres.

There could be some more / less stats, and yes, there could be outliers, reasons and excuses for the above numbers. So maybe it's like you say, we need to work more cohesively as a team. If our forwards are explosive (for their size), Paseka, Bully, B. Trbojevic and Haumole are quick as you allude to, why, on aggregate (across all metrics) are we pretty much the worst forwards team in the entire NRL stats wise?

Taken from:

Stats

The official NRL stats of the National Rugby League, NRL and NRLW player statistics, as well as NRL and NRLW competition statistics.

www.nrl.com

Kick return metres? This reflects back 5, not forwards. Our poor yardage is just as much to do with getting out of red zone by our outside backs. Again, the issues we have are a symptom of us not working as a cohesive unit. Individually, stating Bullemor and Paseka as not slow and immobile is not an opinion, it's a fact.

 

[Nordburg]

Kick return metres? This reflects back 5, not forwards. Our poor yardage is just as much to do with getting out of red zone by our outside backs. Again, the issues we have are a symptom of us not working as a cohesive unit. Individually, stating Bullemor and Paseka as not slow and immobile is not an opinion, it's a fact.

I beg to differ in regards to the kick return stat not reflecting the forwards.Whilst the “back 5” can be attributed to the situation,the forwards have a big say.Kick return stats reflect how well the defence is prior to the kick.Dylan Edwards is not the strongest or fastest fullback in the game,yet is regularly in the top few for kick return metres.That has to do with the fact his forwards are defending so well that the opposition is kicking from around their own 30 each time,meaning Edwards can run 15-25 metres before the opposition can even lay a hand on him.

 

[Pete W]

I beg to differ in regards to the kick return stat not reflecting the forwards.Whilst the “back 5” can be attributed to the situation,the forwards have a big say.Kick return stats reflect how well the defence is prior to the kick.Dylan Edwards is not the strongest or fastest fullback in the game,yet is regularly in the top few for kick return metres.That has to do with the fact his forwards are defending so well that the opposition is kicking from around their own 30 each time,meaning Edwards can run 15-25 metres before the opposition can even lay a hand on him.

And how well the forwards have defended the previous set will reflect how favourable a field position has been afforded to the opposition - a direct result of the back 5's ability, or inability, to gain valuable yardage and momentum in the set before that... and on and on it goes.

This reinforces my initial point that our issues are the result of the whole organism not working as one, and certainly not because the individual players are physically slower or less mobile than their NRL counterparts

 

[eaglebuzz]

You've given them a huge wrap mate - so I thought I'd take a look at our forwards last season and where they ranked in what I perceive to be their main metrics:

Post Contact metres: 12 of 17
Line Engaged: 17 of 17
All run metres: 15 of 17 (get this is shared)
All runs: 16 of 17 (get this is shared)
Kick return metres: 16 of 17
Dummy half runs: 16 of 17

So bottom 3 in all metrics, apart from post contact metres.

There could be some more / less stats, and yes, there could be outliers, reasons and excuses for the above numbers. So maybe it's like you say, we need to work more cohesively as a team. If our forwards are explosive (for their size), Paseka, Bully, B. Trbojevic and Haumole are quick as you allude to, why, on aggregate (across all metrics) are we pretty much the worst forwards team in the entire NRL stats wise?

Taken from:

Stats

The official NRL stats of the National Rugby League, NRL and NRLW player statistics, as well as NRL and NRLW competition statistics.

www.nrl.com

We had quite a lot of injuries to our first choice pack last year so I'd say these stats are in large part a reflection of the fact that we had second stringers making up the numbers for far too much of the year.

 

[jbb/james]

Im not sure how we can have a convo about field position, back 5 and forward momentum without including our stock standard kicking game. It offers very little to the other parts of the momentum game

a kicker that refuses to kick in the line costs both of those apects in the game and in all honesty seems the easiest to fix. Its attitude. Where and how a kicker makes opposition recive the ball has as much impact on the other game aspects as they have on the kicker

we often go alright for the first15 minutes with forward thrust but the kicking game concedes momentum and effort rather than enhances it. Once we lose ground in the arm wrestle the back 5 and forwards have to do more than there share to compensate and struggle

its not always possible , but its never possible if you never position yourself or look to

there is more to a kicking game than the up and under from behind the line and 40/20 attempts. both teams in the GF had the best exponents of this game even though they dont have a sweet kicker like us

you cant excel on 2 out of 3

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Im not sure how we can have a convo about field position, back 5 and forward momentum without including our stock standard kicking game. It offers very little to the other parts of the momentum game

a kicker that refuses to kick in the line costs both of those apects in the game and in all honesty seems the easiest to fix. Its attitude. Where and how a kicker makes opposition recive the ball has as much impact on the other game aspects as they have on the kicker

we often go alright for the first15 minutes with forward thrust but the kicking game concedes momentum and effort rather than enhances it. Once we lose ground in the arm wrestle the back 5 and forwards have to do more than there share to compensate and struggle

its not always possible , but its never possible if you never position yourself or look to

there is more to a kicking game than the up and under from behind the line and 40/20 attempts. both teams in the GF had the best exponents of this game even though they dont have a sweet kicker like us

you cant excel on 2 out of 3

If only DCE could kick in the line the way Cleary does! lol

 

[jbb/james]

If only DCE could kick in the line the way Cleary does! lol

maybe you should consider a soccer forum this year

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

maybe you should consider a soccer forum this year

Ok I'll consider it

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

By the way @jbb/james I don't necessarily disagree with your post. But any time people highlight DCE's shortcomings I wonder how we'll go when he retires. Halfbacks rarely burst on the scene nowadays as the finished product.
Here's the ages of some of the best (the ones who made the finals last year have 'F')

Cherry-Evans 34
Reynolds 33 (F)
Johnson 33 (F)
Hunt 33
Townsend 33
Fogarty 30 (F)
Hughes 29 (F)
Moses 29
Hastings 28 (F)
Hynes 27 (F)
Cleary 26 (F)

Chooks are the only top NRL side with a 21yo half, I guess they can afford to nurse him along while he develops because they have more rep players around him than can even fit into the team.

In NFL the quarterbacks tend to be even older, although the average has come down this year after some noteable retirements.

 

[jbb/james]

By the way @jbb/james I don't necessarily disagree with your post. But any time people highlight DCE's shortcomings I wonder how we'll go when he retires. Halfbacks rarely burst on the scene nowadays as the finished product.
Here's the ages of some of the best (the ones who made the finals last year have 'F')

Cherry-Evans 34
Reynolds 33 (F)
Johnson 33 (F)
Hunt 33
Townsend 33
Fogarty 30 (F)
Hughes 29 (F)
Moses 29
Hastings 28 (F)
Hynes 27 (F)
Cleary 26 (F)

Chooks are the only top NRL side with a 21yo half, I guess they can afford to nurse him along while he develops because they have more rep players around him than can even fit into the team.

In NFL the quarterbacks tend to be even older, although the average has come down this year after some noteable retirements.

nearly all of those players have been at a more than 1 club. Some move on, some were moved on until they learnt there craft. Only one has been on very top dollar

Proper succession planning is about the team-and not individuals.
while people marvel at dce skills he still has very little impact on our ladder position Except for helping us avoid the spoon. He does help seperate us from the cellar dwellars……just

but my comment was about the relationship between forward thrust and the back 5 getting us out of trouble. Im just play devils advocate for the rest of the team .

dce had his best season last year because he took on the opposition instead of routinely shifting the ball before committing defenders. The other thing me and many others have banged on about for years. No one is asking him to get faster, grow another leg, just make his body part of his game

not sure how supporters who watched foran play for the same team struggle not to see the difference and outcomes for there team mates

its hard not to wonder if dce injury free run and longevity is linked to him staying out of harms way in attack for most of his career. Still a bit of a freak though

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

its hard not to wonder if dce injury free run and longevity is linked to him staying out of harms way in attack for most of his career. Still a bit of a freak though

Fair enough. But he is also the top halfback in the game for tackle breaks, and you don't break tackles by passing before committing defenders (so far as I can work out anyway)

Players

Players

www.nrl.com

 

[Tragic Eagle]

DCE is amazing at age 34 and had a great year last year. He shines when he’s not trying to do it all himself and one of the best in the game at backing up after a break in the middle. That part of his game reminds me of Johnny Mayes (showing my age). It would be awesome to send him out with a GF win.

 

[BOZO]

DCE is amazing at age 34 and had a great year last year. He shines when he’s not trying to do it all himself and one of the best in the game at backing up after a break in the middle. That part of his game reminds me of Johnny Mayes (showing my age). It would be awesome to send him out with a GF win.

I am a fan of Manly Greatness @Tragic Eagle
DCE Longevity is Legendary Excelling at the highest levels in the game
Our Premiership Winning Captain has achieved all the Games Glories

DCE at 34 is still on FIRE !!!

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Further evidence (anecdotal at least) that the club was right to say bye bye to ScoFul:

‘BS on every level’: Why Benji has been caught in the crossfire

The Tigers are fuming about what they believe is a deliberate attempt to undermine Benji Marshall from a disgruntled ex-employee who has never seen eye-to-eye with the coach.

www.smh.com.au

If people cannot open the article, try this paywall busting link first up:

12ft

12ft.io

 

[nightster]

DCE is amazing at age 34 and had a great year last year. He shines when he’s not trying to do it all himself and one of the best in the game at backing up after a break in the middle. That part of his game reminds me of Johnny Mayes (showing my age). It would be awesome to send him out with a GF win.

he may even beat Beaver's 349 games for the Eagles

 

[eaglebuzz]

Further evidence (anecdotal at least) that the club was right to say bye bye to ScoFul:

‘BS on every level’: Why Benji has been caught in the crossfire

The Tigers are fuming about what they believe is a deliberate attempt to undermine Benji Marshall from a disgruntled ex-employee who has never seen eye-to-eye with the coach.

www.smh.com.au

If people cannot open the article, try this paywall busting link first up:

12ft

12ft.io

It is amazing how quickly the noise and drama out of the club died off once they received their marching orders. Hopefully things are better internally now too, it seems like the players are happier and working harder.

 

[BOZO]

It is amazing how quickly the noise and drama out of the club died off once they received their marching orders. Hopefully things are better internally now too, it seems like the players are happier and working harder.

Nothing amazing about the Tigers and it looks like they are heading to another Spoon season

The noise and the Drama will only stop once they start winning

Signing an Inexperienced Rookie coach to Rebuild a club is Ridicules'

NRL - Least Wins (Wooden Spoon) 2024

Wests Tigers

2.63

St George Illawarra Dragons

4.30

Canterbury Bulldogs

6.00

Gold Coast Titans

8.00

Dolphins

11.00

Canberra Raiders

18.00

Newcastle Knights

19.00

New Zealand Warriors

36.00

Parramatta Eels

46.00

South Sydney Rabbitohs

51.00

Manly Sea Eagles

81.00

Nth Queensland Cowboys

91.00

Cronulla Sharks

101.00

Sydney Roosters

151.00

Melbourne Storm

226.00

Brisbane Broncos

301.00

Penrith Panthers

 

[BOZO]

Benjie was an Amazing player . One of the best

He started His Head coach 2024 season with another Tigers Quote : Unacceptable loss
He also finished the 2023 season with the same unacceptable results
It is the Head coaches job to not let the Unacceptable to continue and become accepted

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

The remarkable thing, if these allegations are true, is that Scott is ‘cutting his nose off to spite his face’.

No one will want to employ him - in the area where he has built a niche for himself - when they consider that (at two clubs now) he has apparently been a destabilising influence.

Now, after being axed by the Tigers, he is apparently taking a leaf out of Uncle Peter’s book and spreading poison to his contacts in the media.

When you hit your early 50s as Scott has, you generally learn that your employment horizons are closing in on you. Rapidly. He wants to be very careful.