Grand Final Entertainment (AKA: 'The SSM Debate Thread')

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jwaa

member
yes, that's a fair analogy - people who believe in traditional marriage that has been the cornerstone of civilization for centuries, are analogous to wife beaters.

Good point - I should have used slavery in the analogy, it too was a cornerstone of civilisation for centuries.

Regardless the analogy, the concept is pretty simple. The organisations taking this stance don't care if No voters feel disenfranchised. It's a line in the sand. It aligns with the corporate culture they are trying to develop internally and the values displayed externally.

Does that make sense?
 

Smokin Joe

Bencher
Good point - I should have used slavery in the analogy, it too was a cornerstone of civilisation for centuries.

Regardless the analogy, the concept is pretty simple. The organisations taking this stance don't care if No voters feel disenfranchised. It's a line in the sand. It aligns with the corporate culture they are trying to develop internally and the values displayed externally.

Does that make sense?
It makes sense but I think you are wrong.The NRL had a poll to see what the fans wanted and they wanted Macklemore,The pollies are taking it to the public to see what they want.Both parties are avoiding making decisions,doesn't seem like drawing a line in the sand,seems more like having no balls to make a decision to me....Leave it up to popular opinion rather than potentially offending the majority(I don't campaign for either yes/no)
 
All this thread has shown is that people have strong opinions on this, both ways. Which just proves the point that it has no place as part of what is supposed to be "entertainment" for all rugby league fans on GF day.
Missing the point. If the Killers were playing half time tomorrow the yes support drama would have played itself out. The fact that the NRL got Macklemore is not part of some grand conspiracy.
 

jwaa

member
It makes sense but I think you are wrong.The NRL had a poll to see what the fans wanted and they wanted Macklemore,The pollies are taking it to the public to see what they want.Both parties are avoiding making decisions,doesn't seem like drawing a line in the sand,seems more like having no balls to make a decision to me....Leave it up to popular opinion rather than potentially offending the majority(I don't campaign for either yes/no)

I'm far too familiar with Corporate Social Responsibility programs to be anything but jaded about the purity of their intent. The teams behind them often have the best intentions but the only way they get off the ground is if they make business sense.

Most of corporate Australia is betting on "Yes". Even if it doesn't happen now, it will happen soon. When the dust settles, no one wants to be seen holding the confederate flag.

Many companies/industries have long since adopted a message of diversity and inclusion. Some are a little slower and clumsier, especially by those with weak leadership / lacking conviction in their culture and values (see Maclemore vote).

The government is gutless. No argument. Church and state have been sharing bunk beds since the dawn of time.
 

Volley

Bencher
Organizations don't take a stance. Weak willed leaders bullied by leftists adopt a stance. Doesn't make it representative. Many people support the no side on religious grounds - are organizations really justified in adopting a position that disenfranchises people based on their religious beliefs? Is that the world we now live in?

What absolute rot. The NRL are sticking up for their players, fans, staff that are discriminated against under the law. Whatever religion you follow can still exclude anyone they want, but Australian law shouldn't.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don’t criticize
What you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin’
Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin’
 

jwaa

member
...Many people support the no side on religious grounds - are organizations really justified in adopting a position that disenfranchises people based on their religious beliefs? Is that the world we now live in?

Religious beliefs should be treated with compassion and respect, but they shouldn't be used to justify the oppression of others.

If I were Hindu, it should be my right to choose not to eat beef and I should expect for society as a whole to respect this. It shouldn't give me the right to ban beef for everyone though.

Why you banning beef @TerryRandall ?
 
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HappilyManly

Journey Man
...

Organizations don't take a stance. Weak willed leaders bullied by leftists adopt a stance. Doesn't make it representative. Many people support the no side on religious grounds - are organizations really justified in adopting a position that disenfranchises people based on their religious beliefs? Is that the world we now live in?

Plenty of Clubs prohibited members of the Jewish Faith joining.

Not sure when the The Royal Sydney Golf Club finally was forced into allowing Sydney's Eastern Suburbs heavily Jewish population to become members.:cool:

But religion is not genetic in any case, merely a cultural choice of the family @:cool:

The NRL are certainly getting their 500k in global publicity though :D

Now it's just 1 more sleep to claim Manly's first NYC Premiership :party:
 

jwaa

member
How is it restricting a gay couple from living like a straight couple if they have all the rights of a straight couple minus the literal definition of marriage.

I believe in equal rights not equal definition.

It's a government run "straights only club", man.

If your relationship is considered to be illegitimate based on your sexuality, isn't that indicative of broader issues re: sexuality based inequality?

It's like saying - "Who cares if black people have to sit at the back of the bus, at least we let them on it!"
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
It makes sense but I think you are wrong.The NRL had a poll to see what the fans wanted and they wanted Macklemore,The pollies are taking it to the public to see what they want.Both parties are avoiding making decisions,doesn't seem like drawing a line in the sand,seems more like having no balls to make a decision to me....Leave it up to popular opinion rather than potentially offending the majority(I don't campaign for either yes/no)
So you are saying that the NRL had a poll to see what the fans wanted and they listened to the fans who wanted Macklemore .
If that is the case then why don't the NRL listen to the fans with any other NRL issues that they have . The arrogant NRL and Greenturd treats the fans like fools as far as I am concerned .....
We gotta get out of this place
If it's the last thing we ever do
We gotta get out of this place
'cause girl, there's a better life for me and you
 
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Catch_20_2

Reserve Grader
Religious beliefs should be treated with compassion and respect but not when those beliefs directly result in the oppression of someone else.

If I were Hindu, it should be my right not to eat beef, but that shouldn't mean beef is banned for everyone.

Why you banning beef @TerryRandall ?

I don't think he is to be honest with you.
What you are talking about are cultural and traditional beliefs built up over centuries if not thousands of years. Doesn't the concept of marriage fall into this same category ?

In Hinduism there is no absolute truth, you have to consider situation and make a decision that resonates with your conscience. No other person can make that for you.

"There are millions of Hindus all over India who eat beef and still considers themselves good Hindus. There are also million others who do not eat beef but eat other meat because that is the Hindu way. There is another group that does not eat non-veg food on Tuesday and Saturday, to be good Hindus. Yet another group is there who are pure vegetarians, because according to them Hindus are not supposed to eat meat.

Just remember this never let anyone else's definition of Hinduism become your own. There is no one way to be Hindu."


This sums it up really - the same applies to the SSM decision making - so I'm OK with an individual making this decision - I'm OK with a society that is open enough to be able to debate these matter - yes they will be emotive at times. I'm OK with brands aligning themselves with a cause - as long as they are clear that these views are only representative of their board - not necessarily the view of their employees - do you seriously suggest that there isn't one person working for the NRL that won't vote No - TG talks of inclusivity - how does that employee or player feel now after the leader of the game has said this ?

This SSM problem could have been resolved a long long time ago like all these political footballs ... they just decide not to act .... don't want to be held responsible, blah blah blah.

One European country (can't remember which one) all unions get registered under a Civil Union contract .... after that the couple can then hold whatever ceremony they wish under whatever religion and call it whatever they like.

This discussion has become another SSM microcosm, while in actual fact we should all just be enjoying the lead up to a non political grand final - and leave these discussions to the news / papers / talk back radio / etc.

... is anyone here excited that our U/20s are playing a grand final tomorrow ?

The world isn't %^%&%ed .... it's freakin awesome .... but change takes time .... it isn't always for the better though as a society we can only hope it's leading us all to a better life - this is just one small issue in terms of the world that is probably getting more attention than it should ... Should have just been a vote at the last election .... our resources are better spent trying to work out how the hell we are all going to feed ourselves in 100 years time and how to resolve famine in Africa, etc etc.
 
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Smokin Joe

Bencher
I'm far too familiar with Corporate Social Responsibility programs to be anything but jaded about the purity of their intent. The teams behind them often have the best intentions but the only way they get off the ground is if they make business sense.

Most of corporate Australia is betting on "Yes". Even if it doesn't happen now, it will happen soon. When the dust settles, no one wants to be seen holding the confederate flag.

Many companies/industries have long since adopted a message of diversity and inclusion. Some are a little slower and clumsier, especially by those with weak leadership / lacking conviction in their culture and values (see Maclemore vote).

The government is gutless. No argument. Church and state have been sharing bunk beds since the dawn of time.
There is no argument from me on the fact that it is going to happen,SSM will happen at some point,I just think you are giving the NRL leadership and Toddy too much credit,they are bottom feeding opportunists.The "brave leadership decision" that Toddy is trying to own is more him realizing what a buzz has occurred after Macklemore decided to sing "same love" and trying to deflect the crap from the refereeing issue that is current at the moment.I doubt that Toddy even knew of the song and had any idea that he would choose to sing it....
 

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