Garricks performance at centre

[Disco]

How many consistent weeks did Ben T have to build chemistry, learn and adjust with his wing partner?

How many weeks did Lachie Croker have to do the same when he was marking RTS after Ben T did a hammy?

Garrick is a fine, fine player....on the wing.

Ben had 13 missed tackles in his game and 3/4 in the centres.

Rubes has had 14 missed tackles all season.

Also Rubes has the best tackle efficiency of any outside back at Manly and the second most 1on1 tackles this season (for Manly)

And yes yes Rubes does need to improve in defense, we need to sort that whole edge and yes yes defense goes beyond missed tackles stats to reads and positioning etc but I believe we are over exaggerating how bad Garrick is and how good Ben was.

 

[Disco]

Several Titans tries came from Garrick misreads or ineffective tackles or both. Our right side defense has been very poor in matches that Garrick has played this year.

I'd say two (their second and their last). Though he was not wholly responsible for either I dont think but certainly contributed.

Their first was all Saab.

 

[Dion Johnson]

Ben had 13 missed tackles in his game and 3/4 in the centres.

Rubes has had 14 missed tackles all season.

Also Rubes has the best tackle efficiency of any outside back at Manly and the second most 1on1 tackles this season (for Manly)

And yes yes Rubes does need to improve in defense, we need to sort that whole edge and yes yes defense goes beyond missed tackles stats to reads and positioning etc but I believe we are over exaggerating how bad Garrick is and how good Ben was.

For me the stats can be misleading, Garrick just doesn’t read the attacking team very well, he wouldn’t have got a miss tackle for example when Kelly went through the line due to Garrick taking the inside attacker in Foran, Saab would have the miss tackle on Kelly where he had to dive in late due to Garrick misreading the play.

Ben for me reads the attacking play very good.

 

[mave]

Ben had 13 missed tackles in his game and 3/4 in the centres.

Rubes has had 14 missed tackles all season.

Also Rubes has the best tackle efficiency of any outside back at Manly and the second most 1on1 tackles this season (for Manly)

And yes yes Rubes does need to improve in defense, we need to sort that whole edge and yes yes defense goes beyond missed tackles stats to reads and positioning etc but I believe we are over exaggerating how bad Garrick is and how good Ben was.

Does it count as a missed tackle if you mis-read the play and take no-one at all?

 

[mave]

Anyway, @Disco , you can throw stats at me all day long regarding missed tackles, etc.

Fact remains, we leak points like a sieve down that edge when Garrick is at centre.

We didn't when he wasn't.

 

[Top End Eagle]

Great winger , not anywhere near a great centre ( maybe he’ll improve but it’s no where near there yet).

He hasn't had any high level real game experience there and the really good teams won't just expose that spot like Foran did they'll pull him out of that line and torture the middle be forwards at be will.

Talau for Garrick and Garrick for Talau looks most sensible.

 

[Top End Eagle]

Some of you blaming Saab need to realise he was on the right targets last night.

As evidence last week with Ben T and Paulo last week against Montoya and RTS if the winger calls to come off the line the jam in on the centre and hold for their centre to get across. That's how good teams defend so they can get impetus off the line by running forward further diagonally so they have forward momentum to hit the player and stop them or hit the player coming across as centre and stop them/put them in touch.

Saab hadba great game last night. His returns are 100percent since his boxing match

 

[Disco]

Anyway, @Disco , you can throw stats at me all day long regarding missed tackles, etc.

Fact remains, we leak points like a sieve down that edge when Garrick is at centre.

We didn't when he wasn't.

We didnt?

I distinctly remember us bemoaning our right edge last year. DCEs edge has always been a bit of an issue and Many were into Koula for poor defence last year.

Reckon I wouldnt have to dig long to find those posts.

 

[Disco]

Some of you blaming Saab need to realise he was on the right targets last night.

As evidence last week with Ben T and Paulo last week against Montoya and RTS if the winger calls to come off the line the jam in on the centre and hold for their centre to get across. That's how good teams defend so they can get impetus off the line by running forward further diagonally so they have forward momentum to hit the player and stop them or hit the player coming across as centre and stop them/put them in touch.

Saab hadba great game last night. His returns are 100percent since his boxing match

I agree on that but Saab did come in unnecessarily on the first try, we were covered.

No attack as nobody is perfect all the time but it was a misread.

 

[Disco]

For me the stats can be misleading, Garrick just doesn’t read the attacking team very well, he wouldn’t have got a miss tackle for example when Kelly went through the line due to Garrick taking the inside attacker in Foran, Saab would have the miss tackle on Kelly where he had to dive in late due to Garrick misreading the play.

Ben for me reads the attacking play very good.

Does it count as a missed tackle if you mis-read the play and take no-one at all?

Absolutely and I acknowledge as much in my post. It's a part of his game he needs to improve, but I still think the narrative is waaay overblown.

He is 5 games in at the hardest position on the field to defend. I'm not to write him off just yet.

 

[stoodamire]

For now, I’m happy to leave it. Saab and Garrick haven’t played together since the first week of March. Before that, they played maybe one or two game next to each other the year before.

These things take time and for now, we are 4/1/2. Not panic stations yet.

 

[mave]

We didnt?

I distinctly remember us bemoaning our right edge last year. DCEs edge has always been a bit of an issue and Many were into Koula for poor defence last year.

Reckon I wouldnt have to dig long to find those posts.

I'm talking about this season.

DCE has always been the common denominator as the problem. He isn't going anywhere for a while yet though.

Seemingly the whole edge works better with Ben T playing centre over Garrick.

Dragons, now Titans, tore us apart down there.
Panthers and Warriors didn't.

 

[Disco]

I'm talking about this season.

DCE has always been the common denominator as the problem. He isn't going anywhere for a while yet though.

Seemingly the whole edge works better with Ben T playing centre over Garrick.

Dragons, now Titans, tore us apart down there.
Panthers and Warriors didn't.

For me that is a short term improvement without the long term upside.

I stick with Garrick for now but I appreciate I'm against many here.

 

[Dee Why Eagle]

He said he played centre for all his juniors.
Maybe that is why Dragons let him go as he didn’t cut it as a centre. Manly then selected him at centre.

Did not see the game. Was he crap in D again?

I believe he played centre as junior & for Saints...
They apparently were happy to see him go because of his defence.
Having said that, he has proved to be a good winger

 

[nightster]

Burbo another great game, been our best urbo to date.

But not convinced our past d issues are Garrick.

I agree, DCE leaves the outside backs and Shmole guessing and confused quite often in defence (in attack too for that matter). The whole right side defence needs mega practice & I include Tom, there is no trust in each other.

 

[Waz13]

How many consistent weeks did Ben T have to build chemistry, learn and adjust with his wing partner?

How many weeks did Lachie Croker have to do the same when he was marking RTS after Ben T did a hammy?

Garrick is a fine, fine player....on the wing.

Clear to see he’s not a centre. The way the teams going right now id be putting Ben T straight back into centre when he comes back. Talau gets the start until then. Garrick is a great goal kicking, try scoring winger.

 

[Waz13]

I agree, DCE leaves the outsider backs and Shmole guessing and confused quite often in defence (in attack too for that matter). The whole right side defence needs mega practice & I include Tom, there is no trust in each other.

I wince every time an opposition team goes down our right side D.

 

[Waz13]

We didnt?

I distinctly remember us bemoaning our right edge last year. DCEs edge has always been a bit of an issue and Many were into Koula for poor defence last year.

Reckon I wouldnt have to dig long to find those posts.

Agree that edge has been troublesome for a long time. For mine even more reason not to have Garrick (a winger) there at centre. Thought Burbo and Paulo had some nice moments defensively v the Wahs. Jacko coming in and burbo cleaning up behind him.

Stats aside I’ve watched enough footy to see that Garrick looks confused out there with his defensive reads. I feel he’s been given a good enough stint there and we should be looking to have him back outside Koula next week and two Ts 2.0 inside Saab. Talaus attitude is on point and he’s playing well on the wing having a good dig each week. Thought he’s always been a centre so give him a crack there v Eels.

 

[Stewbojevic]

His lack of defensive decision making was highlighted in the try when Brian Kelly broke through the line off a Foran pass.

Foran was running straight at DCE, well covered, and Garrick turned his shoulders in and opened up the gap for Kelly to steam through. Very poor decision and it’s not the first time he’s done it.

He has way more upside than Ben T at centre so I’m willing to give him some time. But he needs to improve or will be back on the wing.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Ben had 13 missed tackles in his game and 3/4 in the centres.

Rubes has had 14 missed tackles all season.

Also Rubes has the best tackle efficiency of any outside back at Manly and the second most 1on1 tackles this season (for Manly)

And yes yes Rubes does need to improve in defense, we need to sort that whole edge and yes yes defense goes beyond missed tackles stats to reads and positioning etc but I believe we are over exaggerating how bad Garrick is and how good Ben was.

It’s easy to have a low missed tackle count when you stand passive and don’t even lay a hand on the guy you should be tackling. The hit in on Foran when DCE had him marked (for the Khan P try) was stupid. The stand flat footed inside Daly’s pocket for Brimson to stroll through (the Boyd try) was disgraceful defence. None of that will show up in missed tackle counts.

The problem is not his tackling, it’s his reads. He is the equivalent of a 4 year old learning his ABCs. I was really excited for his transition and he is in my top 3 players at Manly, but it’s not working and will cost us games that could be the difference between top 4 or top 8.

When Ben played, he made definitive decisions and acted quickly. He chased hard when he needed to and hit in with confidence when required. He spent all off season training on an edge, yet slotted in perfectly.

The most startling thing is Garrick was typically our most consistent high effort player along with Jake T, week in week out for the last 3-4 years. Suddenly, his only offerings are points for the opposition?