Garricks performance at centre

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Disco

First Grader
Premium Member
It’s easy to have a low missed tackle count when you stand passive and don’t even lay a hand on the guy you should be tackling. The hit in on Foran when DCE had him marked (for the Khan P try) was stupid. The stand flat footed inside Daly’s pocket for Brimson to stroll through (the Boyd try) was disgraceful defence. None of that will show up in missed tackle counts.

The problem is not his tackling, it’s his reads. He is the equivalent of a 4 year old learning his ABCs. I was really excited for his transition and he is in my top 3 players at Manly, but it’s not working and will cost us games that could be the difference between top 4 or top 8.

When Ben played, he made definitive decisions and acted quickly. He chased hard when he needed to and hit in with confidence when required. He spent all of season training on an edge, yet slotted in perfectly.

The most startling thing is Garrick was typically our most consistent high effort player along with Jake T, week in week out for the last 3-4 years. Suddenly, his only offerings are points for the opposition?
I've stated in nearly each of my posts in this thread that he needs to improve his defensive reads....I'm not sure how much more clearly I can make that point.

Yet I still maintain the issue is overblown.
 

Rocky

Bencher
Manly have enough points in them to beat any team. The Garrick to center part of it doubles down on that.

It is now obvious one of the top priorities is to fix that defensive sieve and Ben T did a great job at that. Whether he is the answer is arguable, because longer term he seems better as an edge forward.

But as others have said, the solution may be as simple as swapping Talau and Garrick.
 

NREagle

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Garrick looks down on confidence.

Give him time. He's the type of player that won't quit until he gets it right.
 
Garrick is the most improved footballer since we brought him in from the Dragons imo. The centre experiment is only in it's infancy. I am going to give him a lot more time for combinations and teething problems to be ironed out before I death ride him and write him off.
 

mickqld

Sea Eagle forever
Tipping Member
We didnt?

I distinctly remember us bemoaning our right edge last year. DCEs edge has always been a bit of an issue and Many were into Koula for poor defence last year.

Reckon I wouldnt have to dig long to find those posts.
Yep that edge has been weak defensively for a decade. Only 1 player has been there all that time. He sits too close to the inside forward and leaves too big a gap to the centre. Forces the centre to come in leaving the winger defending 15-20 meters of space. DCE has been doing this for years.
 

LeonardCohen

Bencher
Garrick is the most improved footballer since we brought him in from the Dragons imo. The centre experiment is only in it's infancy. I am going to give him a lot more time for combinations and teething problems to be ironed out before I death ride him and write him off.
No one is death riding him.

He is easily one of my favourite players at the club. Great person, great competitor, great club man, terrible defensive centre. I respect the opinion that he needs more time, and may come good. I hope so. I think everyone on the forum is keen to see it work. It's more a case of this being a delicate balancing act. There will come a time (has that time already come?) when he simply must get it together or we abandon the experiment. Some are of the opinion that it's already costing us badly, others are satisfied that he just needs a little longer. No one is necessarily right or wrong.

It's a wait and see, but for how long?
 

danny-boy

Reserve Grader
How much longer can we put up with this? It’s lucky we are winning.

**** me that Souths game was enough to convince me that Garrick doesn’t have what it takes to be a good defensive centre.

2nd Titans try was embarrassing. He didn’t even try to read the play just blindly put his head down and went for a man who was already marked and got his pants pulled down.

The last Titans try was even worse. He looked like an idiot clutching at nothing when he didn’t read the play and come up with nothing but air. Embarrassing.
 
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Phobia

Member
I think games against the Eels and the Fogarty-less Raiders will tell us all. It is in infancy this experiment, but is Seibold not going for the win-now mindset? I think he should get a chance for the next two weeks before a decision is made. He might come good, he might not, but you need to give him some time. Apparently Saab was ripping into him last night. Given what everyone was saying about Saab not long ago, shows how far he's come.

Something people have forgotten here is the benefit of Garrick being on the wing is to Turbo too, his killer shifts are best right to left, and are currently slowed down through Talau. If anything, Garrick should be there just for the opportunities Talau cannot capitalise on.

I believe Koula only ever played next to Garrick once by memory? I think that combination could really work. Forget about our super-fast right side, make it our super-fast left side instead. DCE often skips the centre and goes straight to Saab on the right anyway. If you have a slow or boring centre in our team, you should be putting them on the right, given Schuster is no longer the 5/8, he would use that conventional left centre in Parker for his deceptional plays.

I'm willing to give it a little bit of time, but when you know Ben T reads the defence well (his tackling is a bit hit or miss, though), why not put him there?

Does anyone know why Parker can't play right centre?
 

Will on the hill

Bencher
Tipping Member
Anyway, @Disco , you can throw stats at me all day long regarding missed tackles, etc.

Fact remains, we leak points like a sieve down that edge when Garrick is at centre.

We didn't when he wasn't.
The two games that Burbo played centre were against Panthers and Warriors. Unlike most teams, they are right side dominant attacks so Burbo had far fewer questions asked of him than he would've against left side dominant teams like the Titans.
 

Shoe1

Journey Man
Garrick is a good tackler, his problem is judgement. So hopefully he can learn quickly.

The eels are going to be down on troops. I think koula will be against the tricky penisini who is a very good centre, so Reuben will be against Harper. Harper is one of those players who can be flawed but he is relentless and competitive.
 

Will on the hill

Bencher
Tipping Member
The answer to our defensive issues on the right isn't shuffling deck chairs every time they make a mistake. Edge defence is about trust and working together. It takes time. If you chop and change every other week you have no chance of developing the cohesion required for an effective defensive edge.
 

mave

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
The two games that Burbo played centre were against Panthers and Warriors. Unlike most teams, they are right side dominant attacks so Burbo had far fewer questions asked of him than he would've against left side dominant teams like the Titans.

Are you talking about the 3 peat premiership Panthers, and at the time comp favourites Warriors who had RTS playing on their left edge?

You want to compare these two teams with the juggernaut winless Titans (who have scored only a handful of tries through the hands until yesterday) with noted superstar Brian Kelly and whatever random the Dragons had playing for them.
 

HoldenV8

Journey Man
In retrospect, last night was only Garrick and Saab's 2nd game next too each other. @Will on the hill is right, they will need time to work things out.

Foz running the Titans attack like he did last night is going to cause any team problems. The Titans may be winless, but they aren't talentless.....

I still think after last night though that swapping Garrick and Talau would be a good move. But ... I'm willing to give another week or two to see how Reubs and Saab gel out on our right.
 

Will on the hill

Bencher
Tipping Member
Are you talking about the 3 peat premiership Panthers, and at the time comp favourites Warriors who had RTS playing on their left edge?

You want to compare these two teams with the juggernaut winless Titans (who have scored only a handful of tries through the hands until yesterday) with noted superstar Brian Kelly and whatever random the Dragons had playing for them.
Foz and Kelly had great games and were involved multiple times a set. RTS and May were catching colds while Penrith and Warriors went right all day.

Edit: I consider the dragons game an anomaly, we dropped enough pill to lose 3 games.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
11 9 2 82 20
11 8 3 112 18
11 8 3 75 18
11 7 4 65 16
12 7 5 135 14
12 7 5 57 14
11 6 5 -9 14
11 6 5 -38 14
12 6 5 36 13
11 5 6 47 12
12 6 6 2 12
11 5 6 -88 12
12 5 6 -3 11
11 3 8 -89 8
11 3 8 -119 8
11 2 9 -95 6
11 2 9 -170 6
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