Fulton’s West Syd plan success or failure ??

[The Who]

This my first time posting to this thread. I think this thread is offering a really great question, and one I have struggled with, and have given a lot of thought to.

Can we call this thing a success?. Absolutely not - take a look at our table positions through the grades, Disgusting. Blacktown Workers - a joke!

Can we call this a failure?. After what I saw last night - yes

The lack of teamwork, DCE topping the tackle count, individuals obviously not putting in, and no-one chasing kicks or putting bodies on the line. The last two weeks have been inept and pathetic.

Yet you look at the players brought in - nothing wrong with them talent-wise - Ola, Koula, Tuilangi, Schuster, ai-LOL-ai - many of these guys would be superstars at many other teams.

The problem is it's a matter of geography. How many of these guys actually live on the Northern Beaches?. These guys are trecking in from Blacktown, Penrith, Sydney South-West to train, attend events, and play local games - then they go home back to their own communities.
This Sydney West - South West development pathway works great for Penrith and Parra - who played last years grand final ironically and are doing great because their players live in their communities.

The Northern Beaches is a very unique place, very separate from Sydney both South and West of the bridge. In the past many Manly players lived in the area of Dee Why to Narabeen and with that has come success. Now many don't. We have a well worn reputation that our most successful coaches have always been people from the area - now we are recruiting everyone, coaches and players, from outside the area - and how are we doing?.

NYEagle

I understand your logic, but it falls apart when you consider Easts have no juniors and the most expensive real estate in Australia. Obviously their imported players can't afford to live in the Eastern Suburbs . . . or are they living there rent free by some Cap-free largess from some billionaire?

 

[XV-1]

It's a failure. We seem to have picked the ones that John West aka Penrith rejects.

 

[NYEagle]

I understand your logic, but it falls apart when you consider Easts have no juniors and the most expensive real estate in Australia. Obviously their imported players can't afford to live in the Eastern Suburbs . . . or are they living there rent free by some Cap-free largess from some billionaire?

I get what you are saying but the Northern Beaches is much removed compared with East vs West Or South Sydney. Once you cross that Spit Bridge a whole different world and people greet you. It also takes an age to get these and back from anywhere South of the bridge, and you can’t get a train there either.

I think some people would feel like fish out of water, and a long way from their community.

NYEagle

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Wow re the godfather. Tell us more please.

Look it’s hearsay.

However from what I’ve heard from a former lower grader (who was employed in the LC as a butcher), Ken didn’t have to visit his local butchery when it came to the weekly meat intake. Instead his ‘local’ was in the leagues’ club.

He would just pop down to the club butchery, select his meat in a peremptory manner (according to my source - who admittedly wasn’t always in Ken’s good books) and apparently no money ever changed hands.

It was ‘his’ club after all.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

From Manly’s friend, Dan Weidler at the Sun-Herald. Young Scott doesn’t sound bitter at all.

Sea Eagles stars fair game in Tiger hunt, says Fulton

Scott Fulton says he won’t be motivated by spite when trying to secure players for Wests Tigers from the roster he built at Manly – but lifelong ties to the club won’t stop him either.

www.smh.com.au

I’m sure that with the renowned Fulton charm things will go swimmingly over at the Tigers. I think the bit about Sheens being ‘a good friend’ of his dad’s might be one out of the Brothers’ Grimm rugba league collection.

And Scott, one last favour, please look into taking Aloiai and Tuilagi back to the Tigers.

Take it away Danny:

“New Wests Tigers recruitment chief Scott Fulton says he won’t be motivated by spite when trying to secure players from the roster he built at Manly – but a lifelong association with the club won’t stand in his way either.

Fulton, the son of club legend and league Immortal Bob Fulton, helped create a highly successful junior pathway between western Sydney and Manly, but the Sea Eagles are now moving in another direction and Fulton knew it.

“Just because of the way things were headed at Manly, I knew it was time to move on ... how they were treating my family, but I’m not motivated by that or by the need to be vindictive,” he said. “That doesn’t mean they are off limits either. If there is a good player there who is going to make the Wests Tigers better, then I’ll go for them. It’s not hands off.”

And Scott says his late dad Bob would have no problem with him leaving Manly for his new club.
“I’d have had his blessing for sure, given the way things were being done at Manly,” Fulton said. “I’d know he’d be happy with the move. He has a great association with so many old Tigers, like Blocker [Steve Roach], Siro [Paul Sironen] and Benny [Ben Elias], and from the Wests side of things Tommy [Raudonikis].

I’ve also got a strong association with the west from everything we set up at Manly, and I’m delighted to be at a club which has so much potential.
“I couldn’t have been more impressed with Lee [Hagipantelis, Tigers chairman] and Justin [Pascoe, Tigers chief executive] in my negotiations and they have a very exciting vision for the way this club is going to go.
“[Tigers coach] Tim Sheens was a good friend of Dad’s and [assistant coach] Benji [Marshall] will be just great to work with.”

The key area the Tigers need to sort out is what to do with halfback Luke Brooks. He is being shopped around the NRL and overseas, and a new club is what he needs. Fulton knows that finding a settled halves combination is vital for the club’s future – and he has already made the running on luring Warriors half Shaun Johnson back to Sydney.

“Yes, we need to look at the halves – you don’t need to be Albert Einstein to establish that,” he said. “Luke Brooks is a good player and he has copped so much, too much crap over the years.
“I’ll listen to Tim and Benji on him and then give them my view on him.”
The Johnson approach says it all, however. Fulton isn’t one for making outrageous predictions.
“I think in a year or two we will have some real positives,” he said. “There is so much to be excited about at this club. We need to get the most out of the nursery and ensure the pathways are strong and bringing us the best talent.”

The pathways will fall to Warren McDonnell, who has been shifted to make way for Fulton. “I’m looking forward to working well with Warren and everyone else who has the club at heart,” Fulton said.”

 

[Budgie]

No argument there ... it's just when do you import them ... pay the expense of having 20/30 kids in programs .. hoping one, maybe two end up playing First grade .... ?

Kinda why I'm keen to watch the progression of Fletcher Myers. He wasn't 13 when we recruited him (unlike Schu ... what do they think happens when a kid is prone to ego and recruited so young?) and it did involve a tussle with Newcastle at an older age, once a more mature talent had become apparent.

 

[Budgie]

From Manly’s friend, Dan Weidler at the Sun-Herald. Young Scott doesn’t sound bitter at all.

I’m sure that with the renowned Fulton charm things will go swimmingly over at the Tigers. I think the bit about Sheens being ‘a good friend’ of his dad’s might be one out of the Brothers’ Grimm rugba league collection.

And Scott, one last favour, please look into taking Aloiai and Tuilagi back to the Tigers.

Take it away Danny:

“New Wests Tigers recruitment chief Scott Fulton says he won’t be motivated by spite when trying to secure players from the roster he built at Manly – but a lifelong association with the club won’t stand in his way either.

Fulton, the son of club legend and league Immortal Bob Fulton, helped create a highly successful junior pathway between western Sydney and Manly, but the Sea Eagles are now moving in another direction and Fulton knew it.

“Just because of the way things were headed at Manly, I knew it was time to move on ... how they were treating my family, but I’m not motivated by that or by the need to be vindictive,” he said. “That doesn’t mean they are off limits either. If there is a good player there who is going to make the Wests Tigers better, then I’ll go for them. It’s not hands off.”

And Scott says his late dad Bob would have no problem with him leaving Manly for his new club.
“I’d have had his blessing for sure, given the way things were being done at Manly,” Fulton said. “I’d know he’d be happy with the move. He has a great association with so many old Tigers, like Blocker [Steve Roach], Siro [Paul Sironen] and Benny [Ben Elias], and from the Wests side of things Tommy [Raudonikis].

I’ve also got a strong association with the west from everything we set up at Manly, and I’m delighted to be at a club which has so much potential.
“I couldn’t have been more impressed with Lee [Hagipantelis, Tigers chairman] and Justin [Pascoe, Tigers chief executive] in my negotiations and they have a very exciting vision for the way this club is going to go.
“[Tigers coach] Tim Sheens was a good friend of Dad’s and [assistant coach] Benji [Marshall] will be just great to work with.”

The key area the Tigers need to sort out is what to do with halfback Luke Brooks. He is being shopped around the NRL and overseas, and a new club is what he needs. Fulton knows that finding a settled halves combination is vital for the club’s future – and he has already made the running on luring Warriors half Shaun Johnson back to Sydney.

“Yes, we need to look at the halves – you don’t need to be Albert Einstein to establish that,” he said. “Luke Brooks is a good player and he has copped so much, too much crap over the years.
“I’ll listen to Tim and Benji on him and then give them my view on him.”
The Johnson approach says it all, however. Fulton isn’t one for making outrageous predictions.
“I think in a year or two we will have some real positives,” he said. “There is so much to be excited about at this club. We need to get the most out of the nursery and ensure the pathways are strong and bringing us the best talent.”

The pathways will fall to Warren McDonnell, who has been shifted to make way for Fulton. “I’m looking forward to working well with Warren and everyone else who has the club at heart,” Fulton said.”

It will all end in tears.

 

[master blaster]

From what I have been told a few days ago, its better now he has gone, end of story

 

[Nordburg]

From Manly’s friend, Dan Weidler at the Sun-Herald. Young Scott doesn’t sound bitter at all.

I’m sure that with the renowned Fulton charm things will go swimmingly over at the Tigers. I think the bit about Sheens being ‘a good friend’ of his dad’s might be one out of the Brothers’ Grimm rugba league collection.

And Scott, one last favour, please look into taking Aloiai and Tuilagi back to the Tigers.

Take it away Danny:

“New Wests Tigers recruitment chief Scott Fulton says he won’t be motivated by spite when trying to secure players from the roster he built at Manly – but a lifelong association with the club won’t stand in his way either.

Fulton, the son of club legend and league Immortal Bob Fulton, helped create a highly successful junior pathway between western Sydney and Manly, but the Sea Eagles are now moving in another direction and Fulton knew it.

“Just because of the way things were headed at Manly, I knew it was time to move on ... how they were treating my family, but I’m not motivated by that or by the need to be vindictive,” he said. “That doesn’t mean they are off limits either. If there is a good player there who is going to make the Wests Tigers better, then I’ll go for them. It’s not hands off.”

And Scott says his late dad Bob would have no problem with him leaving Manly for his new club.
“I’d have had his blessing for sure, given the way things were being done at Manly,” Fulton said. “I’d know he’d be happy with the move. He has a great association with so many old Tigers, like Blocker [Steve Roach], Siro [Paul Sironen] and Benny [Ben Elias], and from the Wests side of things Tommy [Raudonikis].

I’ve also got a strong association with the west from everything we set up at Manly, and I’m delighted to be at a club which has so much potential.
“I couldn’t have been more impressed with Lee [Hagipantelis, Tigers chairman] and Justin [Pascoe, Tigers chief executive] in my negotiations and they have a very exciting vision for the way this club is going to go.
“[Tigers coach] Tim Sheens was a good friend of Dad’s and [assistant coach] Benji [Marshall] will be just great to work with.”

The key area the Tigers need to sort out is what to do with halfback Luke Brooks. He is being shopped around the NRL and overseas, and a new club is what he needs. Fulton knows that finding a settled halves combination is vital for the club’s future – and he has already made the running on luring Warriors half Shaun Johnson back to Sydney.

“Yes, we need to look at the halves – you don’t need to be Albert Einstein to establish that,” he said. “Luke Brooks is a good player and he has copped so much, too much crap over the years.
“I’ll listen to Tim and Benji on him and then give them my view on him.”
The Johnson approach says it all, however. Fulton isn’t one for making outrageous predictions.
“I think in a year or two we will have some real positives,” he said. “There is so much to be excited about at this club. We need to get the most out of the nursery and ensure the pathways are strong and bringing us the best talent.”

The pathways will fall to Warren McDonnell, who has been shifted to make way for Fulton. “I’m looking forward to working well with Warren and everyone else who has the club at heart,” Fulton said.”

“Highly successful pathway….” Where is this success?
And “the way things were heading,I knew it was time to move on”You mean,Manly were heading in a direction that didn’t include your nefarious activities and you were moved on

 

[Briza]

The most obvious plan in my head and I'm surprised it wasn't nailed down a decade ago.
Make our nursery from the spit to Wyong on the Central coast, swallowing up the nth shore.
Put the plan in place and be steadfast against all opposition.
Revisit our connection to Canterbury in NZ and replace the Brisbane home game.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

It will all end in tears.

Based on historical evidence to date, quite possible.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

From what I have been told a few days ago, its better now he has gone, end of story

Feel free to elaborate, changing names, dates and locations as necessary.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

(Scott says) ...and I’m delighted to be at a club which has so much potential.

Lol, it's true, no club has as much potential for improvement as a club that always runs last!

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Lol, it's true, no club has as much potential for improvement as a club that always runs last!

Nowhere to go but up…eventually.

 

[LeonardCohen]

There was an interesting quote from Gould’s podcast along the lines of looking beyond talent alone as a marker when recruiting juniors…there’s so much more to being a professional footballer. Good luck Tigers

 

[master blaster]

Feel free to elaborate, changing names, dates and locations as necessary.

Wish I could Terry, but I cant, sorry mate

 

[Bearfax]

This my first time posting to this thread. I think this thread is offering a really great question, and one I have struggled with, and have given a lot of thought to.

Can we call this thing a success?. Absolutely not - take a look at our table positions through the grades, Disgusting. Blacktown Workers - a joke!

Can we call this a failure?. After what I saw last night - yes

The lack of teamwork, DCE topping the tackle count, individuals obviously not putting in, and no-one chasing kicks or putting bodies on the line. The last two weeks have been inept and pathetic.

Yet you look at the players brought in - nothing wrong with them talent-wise - Ola, Koula, Tuilangi, Schuster, ai-LOL-ai - many of these guys would be superstars at many other teams.

The problem is it's a matter of geography. How many of these guys actually live on the Northern Beaches?. These guys are trecking in from Blacktown, Penrith, Sydney South-West to train, attend events, and play local games - then they go home back to their own communities.
This Sydney West - South West development pathway works great for Penrith and Parra - who played last years grand final ironically and are doing great because their players live in their communities.

The Northern Beaches is a very unique place, very separate from Sydney both South and West of the bridge. In the past many Manly players lived in the area of Dee Why to Narabeen and with that has come success. Now many don't. We have a well worn reputation that our most successful coaches have always been people from the area - now we are recruiting everyone, coaches and players, from outside the area - and how are we doing?.

What's happened is the result of very poor judgement from the Manly club between 2014-2017. After the 2013 grand final we first tried to copy Melbourne by securing 3 million dollar men and a bunch of ordinary bit-part players from all all over the place. How did that go?. Next we tried to copy Penrith by thinking their success in building their club through Sydney West and South-West pathways could be replicated on the Northern Beaches. How is that going?.

Manly will not play in or win a grand final with this system in place. These guys from the West and South West of Sydney can take the great Northern Beaches paycheck and good luck to them, but they are not happy on the Northern Beaches and while they have the talent they do not have the desire to bring success to this club because they are not feeling like they are part of the community. Yet we keep throwing money and extensions at them. Manly will be fringe eight at best, and near spoon at worst as things stand now.

Unfortunately, changes need to happen that I don't think even Mestrov can achieve in the near to medium term so I have a very negative outlook.

NYEagle

Cant agree with some that you say, but you make some good points. I think many of these kids like playing with Manly. Its viewed as a glamour club, not liked much but admired and now living in the West that is how people around here perceive them. A chance to move up the socio-economic tiers. I think working their way through the junior ranks despite the distance they have to travel, demonstrates their resolve.

Personally I think Manly has lost its way in the past decade. I dont know what it is specifically. I dont think its Scott Fulton's recruiting, which brought some very talented kids through. I dont think its the junior development programme. To me its the area between juniors and first grade and I suspect some of the coaching methods Manly has had over the past decade since Toovey was given the flick.

I just dont think the Blacktown connection works (we did far better with the QLD connection in my opinion when DCE and Foran were juniors), and I wonder if the coaching and conditioning of players when they reach first grade is up to standard. I'm only guessing, just a feeling something is broken that needs fixing. But, early days with Seibs and Mestrov. I hope they can turn it around but like what you suggest, to date it aint looking pretty.

 

[manly al]

Someone has already posted the results of Manly Mathews and Ball outcomes this season and hardly encouraging . Not too sure of the Manly local junior divisions below that , hopefully in a not bad state . Again hardly an extensive line of local juniors good enough for i st grade in recent times . Preston is one , well known circumstances with the likes of Gutho Hynes , , Ramien and Albert Hoppa , J W H and maybe a couple of others over the past 7 years or so . Central coast may have been the logical junior connection but for one reason or another also , just has not materialized . Really can not see the problem with other Sydney based connections , Sharks do it with Newtown , Roosters with [ or did ] Nth Sydney, as did the Bunnies , Then the likes of Mounties , Wenty . Bulldogs have or apparently a stand alone reggies side , probably gives them some advantages . Still a bit bemused on this notion of Penn having total control over the club , . Only some 67 % , granted the majority shareholder , but hardly responsible for the i st grade side's performance and injury woes .

 

[lsz]

Thinking about this a bit more and based off how the Dolphins have approached things

I think there is a balance between talent and the person. Wayne B recruited a mix of talent and leaders (see his raid on the Storm etc)

There is no doubt a number of the kids we have picked up are very talented - we need to see if they are great people as they mature and grow up.

 

[manly al]

Thinking about this a bit more and based off how the Dolphins have approached things

I think there is a balance between talent and the person. Wayne B recruited a mix of talent and leaders (see his raid on the Storm etc)

There is no doubt a number of the kids we have picked up are very talented - we need to see if they are great people as they mature and grow up.

Maybe an element of luck also but certainly seemed to have found a good mix with balance and talent and just based around a true grit mentality , Average players on reputations playing out of their skins . Just seem to do the simple things right , good spine and such a hard working and eager forward pack . And they are a relatively good consistent side also , how to find that mode for Manly even when they are down a couple of key players but unfortunately just too many players out of form on a consistent basis also .