Forwards

[rifraff]

I know he has had his injuries, but so disappointed in the season from Aloiai. I was expecting a beast from some of his performances I thought I had seen. Probably, it's not that hard to be a standout at the tigers. Not a fan of Aaron Woods either but he might have and could have been better.. Really, really, not impressed with his first season.

 

[HK_Eagle]

He has done this his entire career...he has a big game and then something happens the following week. He smashed the Eels and came out against the Knights and gave away dumb penalties and cost us the game.

Tonight he tried a miracle offload and then got his head in the wrong position, knocked himself out and ****ed the forward rotation up. He is a good kid and all but geez he is hot and cold.

Yep, agree. I think many on here over-hype Keppie, and it's understandable when you look at that first Eels game. He is very capable on his day. He actually reminds me a bit of Suli with his potential but inconsistency.

 

[HK_Eagle]

We never recovered from that offload

Have to agree. We never had a sniff from that moment onwards. Until then, we were up for the challenge.

 

[George Rose's Butcher]

Have to agree. We never had a sniff from that moment onwards. Until then, we were up for the challenge.

Klein giving them set restarts kept them down our end also. After that we just panicked and built 0 pressure

 

[NYEagle]

We need to stop blaming the mistakes because the mistakes are coming off the back of ineffectiveness in general.

The key parts to work on is effectiveness, efficiency, sharp direct mobility,flat options at the line with most hit ups and composure when the momentum finally swings around and build pressure.(that is what Dessie was blowing up at---probably pissed we risked a short side play when we needed field position and time with the ball to induce fatigue into Souths)

We can still be flamboyant that is underpinned by effectiveness and good structure that holds up under pressure.

Today is soooo disappointing, i wasn't expecting Manly to win if the game was a grind but Souths looked more than brittle enough to defeat with plenty of points put on them if we gave ourselves half a chance.

Did we actually build any pressure tonight?. I don’t recall a dropout from South’s.

In the end, the was testament to how ineffective the forwards were tonight, and although they were out there, I think Paseka and Aloiai were seriously busted.

Paseka only played 20 minutes despite being a fresh forward.
Aloiai has no where near bent the line like earlier in the season before his injury. He was AFB like then.
Add Schuster to that.

This is about as far as Manly could have gotten under the circumstances, and although sad I’m very proud.

NYEagle

 

[deanm]

Klein giving them set restarts kept them down our end also. After that we just panicked and built 0 pressure

6 agains were 4 each. We simply made too many errors.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Did we actually build any pressure tonight?. I don’t recall a dropout from South’s.

In the end, the was testament to how ineffective the forwards were tonight, and although they were out there, I think Paseka and Aloiai were seriously busted.

Paseka only played 20 minutes despite being a fresh forward.
Aloiai has no where near bent the line like earlier in the season before his injury. He was AFB like then.
Add Schuster to that.

This is about as far as Manly could have gotten under the circumstances, and although sad I’m very proud.

NYEagle

Why the hell did he only play 20m, especially given the loss of Keppie early in the game? I love Des but sometimes his bench strategies leave me perplexed.

 

[KaZa]

All this talk about completion rates and poor centres and edge defence etc, is all symptomatic of one bigger problem. We don’t win the middle. We barely have all year. We’ve got enough attacking weapons to beat ordinary sides but even those teams we flogged (e.g. Sharks and Tigers) seemed to be able to get good field position off us on a regular basis.

Our completions are poor because we go sideways and panic because we can’t get momentum in the middle. We then kick from our side of half way constantly and give the opposition a chance to apply pressure from 40-30m out consistently and the bounce of ball eventually leads to pressure and points...as it did tonight.

The tide will not turn at Manly until something is done about our pack.
Aloiai - hot and cold ticking time bomb
Taupau - hot and cold and getting slower and older
Keppie - was never gonna back up after last week because he hasn’t done it once in his career...consistently good one week, consistently missing the next...lacks leg speed.
Paseka - not too bad I guess.
Jake t - great defender, no threat with the ball, too slow in a game that’s sped up.
Sipley - too slow and cumbersome

No bruising forward leader to show the rest the way. As much as I think AFB was a thug, he is the missing ingredient. Also, Cook was good at getting his forwards over the ad line...Croker not so good. Maybe all this talk of Fainu being essential is not far off the mark.

We need to do something about this pack to improve on this season.

100% agree with this. However. I can't blame the forwards. It was the way we played it. Des tactics cost us the forward battle.

Taking off Tuapau and bringing on Walker may work against the 'rest' but in finals against the top sides you need to grind the result. We needed Paseka to come on before Walker does. If you want to bring on Walker. Take off Shuster or Foran. Don't mess with the prop rotation. I feel Des tried to reinvent the wheel and he thought it would work. Almost did.

You need to earn to play that adlib football. You need to have go forward. Win the middle. Have them back peddling and you have the space to use turbo to do his thing. Too many times we went wide on the second and third and we lose the ball. Tactics or bad game management by dce and Foran. At half time their forwards ran over 60 metres each! We had Jake at 12 who supposedly fills in at prop when Walker comes on. Aloiai 25 m. Shuster 13. Haumole 40. Only Marty had over 50. We just kept going wide far too early instead of winning the forward battle. Pushed the passes.

Not playing Sipley was a mistake. He gave us good drive and quick play the balls. He bended the line. Paseka losing minutes was baffling as well.

Realistically we exceeded expectations this year and the team will learn alot. But they need to learn the grind before they play the fancy stuff. Too many low percentage plays instead of kicking early. Turn their forwards around. Make the metres. Dce constantly went down the side on the second or third instead of giving it to the forwards.

Was a poor game plan. Didn't give our forwards or back out forwards to compete. Wasn't them dropping the ball.

 

[Remy]

Paseka and Keppie will grow together to be our premier props, they both got huge potential. Agree with Aloiai being a hot and cold player, he had a really promising start to the season before his wrist injury. Marty might need to get moved on just because of his heavy price tag, it's just not worth what he's giving us and it's just a case of he's growing old and less effective. With Bullemor in and Davey back, we add more mobility and speed into our forwards which is exciting. Those two will change things, trust me.

I don't think we really need to go shopping for more props and spend big money on that, we can develop these forwards we got right now because they have the skill set and talent, they just need the right coaching to unlock their potential. A lot of clubs will kill for the depth we gonna have in our forwards department when our 2022 roster comes out.

 

[TokyoEagle]

Yeah we showed the Tigers how to send off a legend and then did it again for the Brookie farewell a couple of weeks later.

It was Parra.

 

[TokyoEagle]

We never recovered from that offload

If you think that you need to go speak to one of Georgeous George's fighters. Can guarantee that the big fella is still backing the boys home, and would have been cheering his guts out.

 

[Mataiforever]

“Was never going to back up” on Keppie - you should be ashamed as a fan. The bloke got KO’d 5 minutes in... how could you have predicted that?

As a fan its your responsibility to pay your dues to players who are good/bad, mainly the former, not blast someone who got KOd and could do nothing about it

We have a good middle, but no “great” premier front rower.

I’ve said it all year on hear and been blasted for it, but Marty doesnt step up and is not the premier front rower to win us the comp.

In reality we have 4 weaknesses, 2 of which will be solved next season (in no order):

1. Inexperience
- our forwards especially will be so much better from this year so i think that almost solves itself on the wide scale.

2. No great centre (weakness moving forward)
- all great teams have a point of attack outside of the spine; i.e Olam 2020-2021, Manu 2019 etc. Parker and Harper are good but one in the same - they should compete for the same spot and we should just back Suli (if he stays) to become that threat, he has it in him clearly.

3. No gun hooker
- Croker has been good but is not gun. Fainu is that gun

4. No premier front rower (NEEDS TO BE SOLVED)
- Marty isnt that. Aloiai probably isnt either but would be a very good second-best prop. We need someone who steps up, like say Tapine, or just bank on a young gun like Utoikamanu from Tigs.

If we solve (2) and (4) i think we can win the comp next year

 

[bob dylan]

Swap Aloiai for AFB and we go close to winning the comp in 2021.

No disrespect to Josh he is a work in progress, and has come a long way this year.

 

[HK_Eagle]

“Was never going to back up” on Keppie - you should be ashamed as a fan. The bloke got KO’d 5 minutes in... how could you have predicted that?

As a fan its your responsibility to pay your dues to players who are good/bad, mainly the former, not blast someone who got KOd and could do nothing about it

We have a good middle, but no “great” premier front rower.

I’ve said it all year on hear and been blasted for it, but Marty doesnt step up and is not the premier front rower to win us the comp.

In reality we have 4 weaknesses, 2 of which will be solved next season (in no order):

1. Inexperience
- our forwards especially will be so much better from this year so i think that almost solves itself on the wide scale.

2. No great centre (weakness moving forward)
- all great teams have a point of attack outside of the spine; i.e Olam 2020-2021, Manu 2019 etc. Parker and Harper are good but one in the same - they should compete for the same spot and we should just back Suli (if he stays) to become that threat, he has it in him clearly.

3. No gun hooker
- Croker has been good but is not gun. Fainu is that gun

4. No premier front rower (NEEDS TO BE SOLVED)
- Marty isnt that. Aloiai probably isnt either but would be a very good second-best prop. We need someone who steps up, like say Tapine, or just bank on a young gun like Utoikamanu from Tigs.

If we solve (2) and (4) i think we can win the comp next year

Agree with the bulk of this. I'm with you on the Marty call. Not quite as concerned about our centres and hooker. Yes, would be nice to have something more threatening in those spots, but also appreciate the balancing act involved for team unity and salary cap restrictions. I think the original comments about Keppie were more to point out he is yet to build consistency in his performance, which is a fair and accurate observation. We all loved what he showed in that first Parra game this season, but hasn't come on to show that sort of form on a consistent basis.

 

[Mataiforever]

Agree with the bulk of this. I'm with you on the Marty call. Not quite as concerned about our centres and hooker. Yes, would be nice to have something more threatening in those spots, but also appreciate the balancing act involved for team unity and salary cap restrictions. I think the original comments about Keppie were more to point out he is yet to build consistency in his performance, which is a fair and accurate observation. We all loved what he showed in that first Parra game this season, but hasn't come on to show that sort of form on a consistent basis.

How can you possibly say he showed no consistency in his performance by what he produced tonight? Was great in early defence, 1 dropped ball and then KO’d.

If he doesnt go off its a different game

 

[HK_Eagle]

Swap Aloiai for AFB and we go close to winning the comp in 2021.

No disrespect to Josh he is a work in progress, and has come a long way this year.

There's nothing more infuriating than watching player interviews mid week talking the talk and then watch them fail to walk the talk on game day.

 

[HK_Eagle]

How can you possibly say he showed no consistency in his performance by what he produced tonight? Was great in early defence, 1 dropped ball and then KO’d.

If he doesnt go off its a different game

Yeah, but at the end of the day, he wasn't there and has yet to string together consistent performances. I understand he was knocked out and couldn't continue. And I hope he is well and recovers from it. He also pushed a ridiculous offload that put him, and his team, in a scrambled frenetic defensive pattern that lead to the head knock.

 

[Mataiforever]

Swap Aloiai for AFB and we go close to winning the comp in 2021.

No disrespect to Josh he is a work in progress, and has come a long way this year.

Completely agree

People saying we dont miss AFB are kidding themselves, and I can say I have always said he’s a big loss all year even when winning

 

[Mataiforever]

Yeah, but at the end of the day, he wasn't there and has yet to string together consistent performances. I understand he was knocked out and couldn't continue. And I hope he is well and recovers from it. He also pushed a ridiculous offload that put him, and his team, in a scrambled frenetic defensive pattern that lead to the head knock.

Again the bloke had a child - was pretty consistent before that, turned up really well vs chooks and then had good punch in defence before the KO. I agree the error really hurt us but to say he “hasn’t stringed together consistent performances” is an overreaction in my opinion - especially when it’s based off 2 external factors he can’t control: child birth and being knocked out

 

[HK_Eagle]

Again the bloke had a child - was pretty consistent before that, turned up really well vs chooks and then had good punch in defence before the KO. I agree the error really hurt us but to say he “hasn’t stringed together consistent performances” is an overreaction in my opinion - especially when it’s based off 2 external factors he can’t control: child birth and being knocked out

I love the guy and happy is with us. I want to keep him and optimistic for his future with us. Doesn't sugar coat the inconsistency at this early stage of his career. I'm sure he will mature, like all top forwards, with a bit more age and experience.