Forwards

[Ryan]

I agree with the sentiment on the broncoes but they did recruit marty TBF - who we were keen to get rid of as he was slow, error prone and headed towards retirement.

I wasn't. Statistically he was our best metre maker year on year. And do you consider any of his replacements any better? Condon? Woods? Tuilagi?

Talk about going backwards by laps. Marty AVERAGED 142 metres a game with us man.

Today's plonkers aren't even close.

 

[jbb/james]

Salaries according to Code NRL

8. Taniela Paseka $500,000

9. Lachlan Croker $300,000

10. Josh Aloiai $450,000

11. Haumole Olakau’atu $650,000

12. Kelma Tuilagi $250,000

13. Jake Trbojevic $950,000

Total: $3.1 million

The salary of every first-choice #NRL forward revealed: bit.ly/43SSawh

I know we have to take these figures with a grain of salt but aiolis figures seem greatly exaggerated on ST with most stating he is 650 ish

despite that, the ROI this season hasnt been great but his eatlier seasons, he was probably walking the walk for 450

its in him, not 650 though

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

While you say that Mark, I'd like to point out The Broncos. They got a smart and intuitive guy like Ben Ikin in there to manage the roster / weed out the Moses monopoly, and you can see their trajectory.

Secondly, they let some huge names go mid contract. And not just a few - a LOT.

They shed. They bled. They bred. They grew. They improved.

They let go Pangai Jnr and Lodge, can't think of any others? And yes, as a result they bled. Bigtime. They got a wooden spoon as you know!
And then they sure as hell bred and grew, but it helps that they had juniors like Haas Flegler and Carrigan. Staggs. Mam. Cobbo. Walsh. All of these were standout juniors picked in all the junior Origin and kangaroo sides, and they've got plenty more besides them.

So we could try for the same strategy, there be one or two though who are a bit miffed if we start collecting wooden spoons. Also our phoenix-like revival may take a tad longer than the Broncos, unless we suddenly produce 20 outstanding juniors.

 

[Bomb Voyage]

I wasn't. Statistically he was our best metre maker year on year. And do you consider any of his replacements any better? Condon? Woods? Tuilagi?

Talk about going backwards by laps. Marty AVERAGED 142 metres a game with us man.

Today's plonkers aren't even close.

oh no I agree I'd take marty back over most of our new forwards, but just saying, at the tme we were glad to see the back of him

 

[Ryan]

oh no I agree I'd take marty back over most of our new forwards, but just saying, at the tme we were glad to see the back of him

Who was?

Not a chance I was happy to let out best go forward forward go.

We lost Davey, Foran, Walker, Taupau and others, and honestly, not one player brought in is an upgrade. Absolutely joke.

 

[globaleagle]

So we could try for the same strategy, there be one or two though who are a bit miffed if we start collecting wooden spoons. Also our phoenix-like revival may take a tad longer than the Broncos, unless we suddenly produce 20 outstanding juniors.

And the equivalent of the Brisbane 'thoroughbreds' to pay for third party deals (even though those deals are totally only for the players and not contingent on the team...totally).

 

[Bomb Voyage]

Who was?

Not a chance I was happy to let out best go forward forward go.

We lost Davey, Foran, Walker, Taupau and others, and honestly, not one player brought in is an upgrade. Absolutely joke.

I definitely was at the time

 

[globaleagle]

there's some in here that were happy re Marty leaving

Marty..OMG

Heard an interview today anf big Marty threw out that many phenomenals and Legacies that even though i have been a fan of this guy i was woken up.. Asked about joining the Donkeys he sounded like a Nazi propaganda machine in full fight. Phenomenal coaching staff Phenomenal facilities Phenomenal...

silvertails.net

 

[Ryan]

They let go Pangai Jnr and Lodge, can't think of any others? And yes, as a result they bled. Bigtime. They got a wooden spoon as you know!
And then they sure as hell bred and grew, but it helps that they had juniors like Haas Flegler and Carrigan. Staggs. Mam. Cobbo. Walsh. All of these were standout juniors picked in all the junior Origin and kangaroo sides, and they've got plenty more besides them.

So we could try for the same strategy, there be one or two though who are a bit miffed if we start collecting wooden spoons. Also our phoenix-like revival may take a tad longer than the Broncos, unless we suddenly produce 20 outstanding juniors.

You're forgetting a number of other players like Bullemor (as one example) they let go.

And we HAVE juniors , but are leaking them like a syv to other teams (Tuitavake, Fifita, Fainu 1, Fainu 2, Fainu 3). We are letting guys like Walker (who's having an absolute blinder this season), AFB, Hynes, Gutherson, Davey, Foran etc go at times, and look at the absolute plodders we are bringing in.

Why are.you making excuses man? Are you watching the same dog**** the rest of us are? And please , don't roll out the salary cap excuse either. Every team has to contend with it. Panthers are leaking quality players and continuing on..

So we have the juniors, but let them go. We have the players, but let them leave. We acquire and retain the absolute scraps / crap.

And the results are a decade of mediocrity. And YET, people are willing to promote excuses

 

[Ryan]

there's some in here that were happy re Marty leaving

Marty..OMG

Heard an interview today anf big Marty threw out that many phenomenals and Legacies that even though i have been a fan of this guy i was woken up.. Asked about joining the Donkeys he sounded like a Nazi propaganda machine in full fight. Phenomenal coaching staff Phenomenal facilities Phenomenal...

silvertails.net

Yep, I was NEVER happy he was leaving and said it would bite us on the arse and it has. I also remember the absolute pasting I got from everyone about warning you all about Tuilagi. Yet here we are.

What a joke.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

While you say that Mark, I'd like to point out The Broncos. They got a smart and intuitive guy like Ben Ikin in there to manage the roster / weed out the Moses monopoly, and you can see their trajectory.

Secondly, they let some huge names go mid contract. And not just a few - a LOT.

They shed. They bled. They bred. They grew. They improved.

I don't see them acquiring slow, lumbering, heading to retirement players. I don't see them acquiring bottom of the table teams players. I don't see them re-signing players who are OBVIOUSLY not at the pace and speed of the game.

Jesus, I don't even think they'd acquire Jake, who is basically a tackle machine.

So to say it can't happen or not realistic is untrue. The proof is there for everyone to see. The blueprint on how to wash out the crap , wash out the effect a player manager can have on a roster, wash out the mediocrity and steer the ship in the right direction.

We can't keep on going with same old crap we have for years and expect change. And we are - Siebold isn't too far removed from Des' strategies and systems in my opinion. We should have just kept Des. It was just more drama that wasn't needed if you look at our crap product right now.

Forget loyalties now. These players in our team 1-30 don't deserve it anymore. I'm open to any and all of them (and the coaching staff, management and owners) to be flushed out of the system entirely, and to start again. We are insipid, and now unwatchable / enjoyable. Jesus mate, of the 30 something percent of games we've won since the jersey thing, even the wins are crap, as most of the time, we capitulate in the second half !

Anyways, I don't really watch anymore, and unless change happens, I'll continue that way, and I'm an ironed on supporter (and have seen MANY in my boat this season), and that's a real worry. It's a chore to watch these almost rans make a new and interesting excuse as to why they lose each and every week.

The most embarrassing part? Mestrov, Siebolds and Penn's claims we are a premiership team, this a premiership window, and it's exciting times. FMD, we've been a 40% win team WITH Tom in it the last 2 years. Let's all at least be realistic rather than deluded

Remember also , they have the thoroughbreds and I assure you Bronco’s being used in advertising up here is prolific , street signs , radio , TV, I even got a letterbox drop for solar panels endorsed by Adam Reynolds.

Their ability to earn big dollars up here plays a huge role.

And , equally the Dolphins , they are everywhere as well.

How many Manly players do you see on TV or hear on radio in Sydney ??

I don’t really think the Bronco’s are a fair comparison.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

You're forgetting a number of other players like Bullemor (as one example) they let go.

And we HAVE juniors , but are leaking them like a syv to other teams (Tuitavake, Fifita, Fainu 1, Fainu 2, Fainu 3). We are letting guys like Walker (who's having an absolute blinder this season), AFB, Hynes, Gutherson, Davey, Foran etc go at times, and look at the absolute plodders we are bringing in.

Why are.you making excuses man? Are you watching the same dog**** the rest of us are? And please , don't roll out the salary cap excuse either. Every team has to contend with it. Panthers are leaking quality players and continuing on..

So we have the juniors, but let them go. We have the players, but let them leave. We acquire and retain the absolute scraps / crap.

And the results are a decade of mediocrity. And YET, people are willing to promote excuses

What are you talking about! Did I make any excuses? (No!)
I only commented on your suggestion that we should do as the Broncos did, to basically say I don't think it is that simple because we are not the Broncos. (Nor are we Politis-Chooks, Cannon-Brookes-Packer-Crowe-Rabits, Laundy-Dogs etc etc)
And as for Broncos letting Bullemor go, that wasn't cutting a big name to clear their cap, he was a kid on bugger all and they let him go because they already had better players the same age!

 

[Ryan]

What are you talking about! Did I make any excuses? (No!)
I only commented on your suggestion that we should do as the Broncos did, to basically say I don't think it is that simple because we are not the Broncos. (Nor are we Politis-Chooks, Cannon-Brookes-Packer-Crowe-Rabits, Laundy-Dogs etc etc)
And as for Broncos letting Bullemor go, that wasn't cutting a big name to clear their cap, he was a kid on bugger all and they let him go because they already had better players the same age!

So a team on the decline, getting littered with Moses players, having to shed players, who's players were perpetually injured, having Siebold as coach isn't comparable? Fair enough, that's your opinion.

In regard to Bullemor, that was one example, because you said Lodge and TPJ were the only one's you could think of. I could list more, but the Broncs website has the comprehensive list.

In regards to the excuses bit - you were claiming The Broncos have / had a vast array of juniors to select from, as to the reason we couldn't hold ourselves to that standard? I just pointed out, we've had players like Hynes, Gutherson, AFB, Walker, Foran, Ramien, Fainu 1, 2 & 3, Verrills, JWH & "many others" come through (or acquired / released) with us. My comment was about the choices we are making, and the standards we are applying. Is suggesting we can't compare ourselves to the Broncos an excuse? Maybe / maybe not.

But I'd much rather that right now, than comparing us to the Tigers Also, I DID say PEOPLE, I wasn't actually directly referring to you tbh.

 

[KaZa]

there's some in here that were happy re Marty leaving

Marty..OMG

Heard an interview today anf big Marty threw out that many phenomenals and Legacies that even though i have been a fan of this guy i was woken up.. Asked about joining the Donkeys he sounded like a Nazi propaganda machine in full fight. Phenomenal coaching staff Phenomenal facilities Phenomenal...

silvertails.net

I still am. He was awful for us in the last few seasons. Too many errors. Didnt care.

I just thought wed replace him better... that we didnt.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I get your point @Ryan that you want to cut the deadwood out in one fell swoop , and believe me, I agree with you , IF we could.

But the the fact is , with a 17th team in play , with added salary cap for the first few years to help them get established , it’s a very very difficult market.

Add to that the seemingly unlimited funds from rich / connected benefactors for some clubs and it makes it very very hard to secure talent unless you are paying well overs ( and we know we can’t do that).

So , I think we are going to have to be patient ( and yes I know it’s 10 years already ) and move the deadwood out when we can.

Hopefully by 2025 most will be gone and the club has recruited “ thoughtfully” in that time. The fact we have Peter Gentle on board now gives me a lot more confidence that that will happen.

There’s been some god awful recruiting in recent times , but is that Hasler / Fulton or is that Seibold / Fulton ( now Gentle )?

Most are Hasler / Fulton.

And apart from Arthur ( who I think is on a 2 year contract ) the others brought in this year are 1 year , so they may or may not be extended.

I think you can almost guarantee if better players are on offer , and can be fitted into the cap most of those won’t be here in 2024.

I truly do get your passion , and your desire , but don’t let emotion get in the way , let your head think about what could be done.

And this starts with those who aren’t contracted for 24, they need to be discarded IF we can do better.

But some won’t be discarded as they are low ball and you need 5/6 of them to fill your 30 anyway, so brace yourself not all of your rejects will be in fact discarded.

 

[Eagle thru 'n' thru]

That’s much more like will happen than @Ryan suggests ( although I’m not disputing he’s close to right ) and the reason for that is there just won’t be that number of lean / mean / aggressive players available to buy in.

It’ll need to be a 2-3 year process , they’ll be able to make some moves in 2024 , and quite a few more in 2025 as players come off contract.

Get rid of AOA they say , well the trouble is he has another year to run , and we’d only be able to onsell him if we were paying a large amount of his contract. So say he’d on $650k , we might be paying $350k , so then we have to replace him for $300k to be “ square “.

I do get the passion of @Ryan but he also needs to be realistic about what can actually happen , even if his plan is where the club is headed.

As I say , 2-3 years for a cleanout , not instantly .

I hear (actually read it on Zero Tackle) the Newcastle Knights won't be re-signing Brodie Jones. He would be a great pick up.

 

[Ryan]

I get your point @Ryan that you want to cut the deadwood out in one fell swoop , and believe me, I agree with you , IF we could.

But the the fact is , with a 17th team in play , with added salary cap for the first few years to help them get established , it’s a very very difficult market.

Add to that the seemingly unlimited funds from rich / connected benefactors for some clubs and it makes it very very hard to secure talent unless you are paying well overs ( and we know we can’t do that).

So , I think we are going to have to be patient ( and yes I know it’s 10 years already ) and move the deadwood out when we can.

Hopefully by 2025 most will be gone and the club has recruited “ thoughtfully” in that time. The fact we have Peter Gentle on board now gives me a lot more confidence that that will happen.

There’s been some god awful recruiting in recent times , but is that Hasler / Fulton or is that Seibold / Fulton ( now Gentle )?

Most are Hasler / Fulton.

And apart from Arthur ( who I think is on a 2 year contract ) the others brought in this year are 1 year , so they may or may not be extended.

I think you can almost guarantee if better players are on offer , and can be fitted into the cap most of those won’t be here in 2024.

I truly do get your passion , and your desire , but don’t let emotion get in the way , let your head think about what could be done.

And this starts with those who aren’t contracted for 24, they need to be discarded IF we can do better.

But some won’t be discarded as they are low ball and you need 5/6 of them to fill your 30 anyway, so brace yourself not all of your rejects will be in fact discarded.

Mate, if a rubbish Bulldogs and Tigers team can acquire players like Matt Burton, Josh Addo-Carr, Blake Taaffe, Viliame Kikau, Stephen Crighton, Reed Mahoney, Jaemon Salmon, Apisai Koroisou, 3X Fainu brothers, John Bateman, David Klemmer, Brent Naden, Charlie Stains etc etc etc in the past 18 months (all from VERY good teams), I honestly feel and believe we should be able to as well.

We keep acquiring plodders from the habitual wooden spooners over the past half a decade.

It doesn't help we don't get access to pretty well 9% of our salary cap almost every year in Tom (based on 2023 figures). Jake on huge money is a joke as well. He adds absolutely NOTHING in attack (makes up for it in defense and leadership - but not at his salary level). Josh Aloiai is on huge coin, but guess what, he's ALWAYS injured as well. That's another 5% of our cap not being used. Then there is (despite being one of my favorite players) the abomination (contract value) of Josh Schuster, who is almost always never playing - which equates to 7%.

Those three players account for 21% of our salary cap not playing (mostly). That's not taking into consideration Jake is probably worth 60% of his actual contract value, the 40% equating to 3% of the salary cap.

That sums up to around 25% of our cap, being an absolute wasteland.

For that reason, I truly think we need a cull, and I mean a huge one, and in my view, not one player 1-30 should be safe. If anyone even half squeek's any sound of complaint - GONE. If Tom's not happy - GONE. DCE - GONE. At present (and for a decade) these players have been absolute failures. No-one should be safe. We need a 2005+ odd Des Hasler type rebuild.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Mate, if a rubbish Bulldogs and Tigers team can acquire players like Matt Burton, Josh Addo-Carr, Blake Taaffe, Viliame Kikau, Stephen Crighton, Reed Mahoney, Jaemon Salmon, Apisai Koroisou, 3X Fainu brothers, John Bateman, David Klemmer, Brent Naden, Charlie Stains etc etc etc in the past 18 months (all from VERY good teams), I honestly feel and believe we should be able to as well.

We keep acquiring plodders from the habitual wooden spooners over the past half a decade.

It doesn't help we don't get access to pretty well 9% of our salary cap almost every year in Tom (based on 2023 figures). Jake on huge money is a joke as well. He adds absolutely NOTHING in attack (makes up for it in defense and leadership - but not at his salary level). Josh Aloiai is on huge coin, but guess what, he's ALWAYS injured as well. That's another 5% of our cap not being used. Then there is (despite being one of my favorite players) the abomination (contract value) of Josh Schuster, who is almost always never playing - which equates to 7%.

Those three players account for 21% of our salary cap not playing (mostly). That's not taking into consideration Jake is probably worth 60% of his actual contract value, the 40% equating to 3% of the salary cap.

That sums up to around 25% of our cap, being an absolute wasteland.

For that reason, I truly think we need a cull, and I mean a huge one, and in my view, not one player 1-30 should be safe. If anyone even half squeek's any sound of complaint - GONE. If Tom's not happy - GONE. DCE - GONE. At present (and for a decade) these players have been absolute failures. No-one should be safe. We need a 2005+ odd Des Hasler type rebuild.

The rubbish Bulldogs funded by Hotel billionaire, Laundy you mean ??

Why do you think those players have gone there ???

To win a Premiership ( some already have ) ????

To be coached by a better coach ???

I’m guessing it wouldn’t be BIG $$$$ would it , remember they are also trying to buy big Tino and apparently offered him hotel shares on the side.

I’d dearly love our owner to be competitive like this , but he’s not and until we have a rich benefactor to get around the salary cap , I think we are royally screwed.

 

[BOZO]

I’d dearly love our owner to be competitive like this , but he’s not and until we have a rich benefactor to get around the salary cap , I think we are royally screwed.

I have an idea feathered friend ....

We can start a collection here at the Silvertails forum and buy our owner out

We will proudly be the first ever forum to own our club

 

[LeonardCohen]

You calm down, you’ve been frothing about Woods ever since we signed him & before that you were frothing about Seibold.

You’re totally wrong & pathetic - just my opinion bra, don’t take any offence just because I think your opinion is dumb, salty & immature, mmkay?

‘Frothing’ is slang term with positive connotations (to love something) so I am not sure it applies here.