Forwards?

[susan]

Mauler,Iagree the loss may prove beneficial in firing up the pigs.I am not one of the "boofheads" iether as I don't blame the halves at all and have huge wraps on both.Also agree that anyone who bags them for this years efforts is foolish.My comments re the halves is simply they are on a steep learning curve which will have speedbumps.

The forwards were ordinary last 2 weeks which didnt help but that is a rarity this year.I just think even if the forwards play at their best inexperience in 7 and 6 may well be our downfall this year as history suggests.This year is a bonus if we get it.The best is yet to come.

 

[the mauler]

Susan, the boofhead call was not directed at you. Just can't believe people having a crack at our halves everytime we have a bad game.
People have got to remember how young these guys are and have some patience. At the start of the season we were 25/1 outsiders to win the comp,and now where serious title contenders.
If the pigs fire up Fozzy and DCE can guide us to the title. If not still been a great run this year,and totally agree Susan best is yet to come.

 

[Masked Eagle]

Guess who is the number 1 team for metres conceded this year.Yes you got it-Manly.
Much of the above comment is simply a reaction to a couple of ordinary performances.You don't get to be number 1 in the metres conceded category without doing something right and defence wins comps.In attack we get a lot more metres than most from our second rowers like chock and joe than other sides who rely a lot more on the front rowers.Our is more evenly spread and would be better if Kite and King lifted a little which will happen as the games get bigger. To suggest our pack is a major problem is totally wrong and jumping at shadows.Most sides who play us get beat next week and most rate us the toughest defensive pack in the comp or close to it so get a grip guys- WE ARE DOING PLENTY RIGHT.

The inconsistency stems from having a young halves pairing who are learning quickly but can drift in and out of games under pressure.This is to be expected and will get better.i think DCE in particular and Foran are a year short of a title in regrds to decision making and this will be our undoing this year at the backend.Watch out 2012 onwards-these blokes are future champions.Foran is already there in terms of toughness and reading a game-he just needs tpo pace himself better.DCE is simply learning and learning fast.

Can you give me the source where you got that stat from?

Everyone knows stats can be misleading as well. It doesn't matter how many metres teams make against you, what counts is where they finish their sets. According to an article on NRL.com, the Dragons actually conceed the 3rd most metres per game and you wouldn't say they are bad defensively would you? To be honest I can't think of too many games where given and even flow of possession we haven't come out on top in the field position stakes. Even the loss against the Dragons, they were kicking from 30-40m out each time whereas we were getting to half way.

 

[Technical Coach]

Guess who is the number 1 team for metres conceded this year.Yes you got it-Manly.

Much of the above comment is simply a reaction to a couple of ordinary performances.You don't get to be number 1 in the metres conceded category without doing something right and defence wins comps.In attack we get a lot more metres than most from our second rowers like chock and joe than other sides who rely a lot more on the front rowers.Our is more evenly spread and would be better if Kite and King lifted a little which will happen as the games get bigger. To suggest our pack is a major problem is totally wrong and jumping at shadows.Most sides who play us get beat next week and most rate us the toughest defensive pack in the comp or close to it so get a grip guys- WE ARE DOING PLENTY RIGHT.

The inconsistency stems from having a young halves pairing who are learning quickly but can drift in and out of games under pressure.This is to be expected and will get better.i think DCE in particular and Foran are a year short of a title in regrds to decision making and this will be our undoing this year at the backend.Watch out 2012 onwards-these blokes are future champions.Foran is already there in terms of toughness and reading a game-he just needs tpo pace himself better.DCE is simply learning and learning fast.

As i've stated before i'm not worried about our lack of intensity in defence i know it will pick up when its counts. Our fast defensive line that is Origin like in intensity is hard to sustain all season and i'm well aware our yardage conceded per game is the best(not sure if that is still the case now)--- but the last month or so we are allowing more metres against us.

I have noticed a few reading errors and timing issues on top of hanging back in defence with our outside backs it's not as composed as it usually is. Obviously Oldfield and Hoppa come to mind but i've even noticed Matai and Lyon a little more hesitant in coming up and in (probably as a result of line up changes)---- the way our centres read the play is usually our strong point.

I'm sure this will all rectify once all players are on deck but its still worrying to see and can develop even further if it continues for too long.

Just on a side note Buhrer seems to be struggling with the pace and intensity of first grade---he looks sharp at times especially early in the season yet other times looks lethargic and slow---sometimes i notice after short periods he is sucking it in big time.

---

I'm not really sure if thats the case. We don't do that much dummy half running, actually no one really does much dummy half running these days. Its because of the change in the ruck rule, its made it a lot harder to make those easy metres. Most of Hoppas and Wolfmans metres come from kick returns. Its actually very rare teams will have more than one or two forwards make over 100m each game so if everyone made about 80m then its more than reasonable IMO. In fact Choc is our only forward who averages over 100m per game and we've gone reasonably well so far this year so I don't think its a problem. I actually think our go forward has been pretty good this year, I can't think of any game where we have struggled to get out of our own end. That includes the losses.

Count the dummy half runs or hitups by the wingers , especially in our own half on Sunday. Can guarantee Hoppas metres are 80% from here not kick returns & you will find the opposition kicking game will be actually aimed at Oldfield & not Hoppa this weekend.
Also TC, totally disagree about go foward not being linked with quick play the balls. The majority of games are won & lost in the ruck area & whoever dominates the speed of the play the ball determines not only go foward but also line breaks. When the ball is played slowly the ruck area becomes lethargic & the attack is often forced sideways , very obvious in recent games & a signicant reason the metres are down when not playing direct.

I never stated go forward is not linked to quick play the balls but its not the be all and end all---it is a significant factor though.

 

[Masked Eagle]

Guess who is the number 1 team for metres conceded this year.Yes you got it-Manly.

Much of the above comment is simply a reaction to a couple of ordinary performances.You don't get to be number 1 in the metres conceded category without doing something right and defence wins comps.In attack we get a lot more metres than most from our second rowers like chock and joe than other sides who rely a lot more on the front rowers.Our is more evenly spread and would be better if Kite and King lifted a little which will happen as the games get bigger. To suggest our pack is a major problem is totally wrong and jumping at shadows.Most sides who play us get beat next week and most rate us the toughest defensive pack in the comp or close to it so get a grip guys- WE ARE DOING PLENTY RIGHT.

The inconsistency stems from having a young halves pairing who are learning quickly but can drift in and out of games under pressure.This is to be expected and will get better.i think DCE in particular and Foran are a year short of a title in regrds to decision making and this will be our undoing this year at the backend.Watch out 2012 onwards-these blokes are future champions.Foran is already there in terms of toughness and reading a game-he just needs tpo pace himself better.DCE is simply learning and learning fast.

As i've stated before i'm not worried about our lack of intensity in defence i know it will pick up when its counts. Our fast defensive line that is Origin like in intensity is hard to sustain all season and i'm well aware our yardage conceded per game is the best(not sure if that is still the case now)--- but the last month or so we are allowing more metres against us.

I have noticed a few reading errors and timing issues on top of hanging back in defence with our outside backs it's not as composed as it usually is. Obviously Oldfield and Hoppa come to mind but i've even noticed Matai and Lyon a little more hesitant in coming up and in (probably as a result of line up changes)---- the way our centres read the play is usually our strong point.

I'm sure this will all rectify once all players are on deck but its still worrying to see and can develop even further if it continues for too long.

Just on a side note Buhrer seems to be struggling with the pace and intensity of first grade---he looks sharp at times especially early in the season yet other times looks lethargic and slow---sometimes i notice after short periods he is sucking it in big time.

On Buhrer. That's what happens when you go from playing 60 minutes per week at the start of the year to anywhere between 5 - 40 minutes for the last 8 weeks or so. I was surprised Mauro was getting the starting position over him. As much as i like what Mauro as done this year, Buhrer has more value/potential to be in our best 17 and IMO he's been cruelled by lack of minutes.

 

[twitchk]

according to our 'stat leaders' on the MWSE website, Buhrer is the only forward to break the 100m mark in the past 3 games.

 

[Moops]

according to our 'stat leaders' on the MWSE website, Buhrer is the only forward to break the 100m mark in the past 3 games.

Ouch!!

Let's see what the spin doctors come up with in regards to this...

 

[Technical Coach]

Don't see anywhere in my thread that iv made any predictions because of the last 2 games. My point was that we can't blame our halves for a couple of average games.
Personally I think last weeks loss will do us good, should fire up our pack 2 get back to their best. I definitely haven't given up on the season because of a couple of average games. It's a long season where everyone has a flat patch, and hopefully we peak finals time.

Agree---the halves are having average games due to the lack of go forward penetration and fast play the balls not as a result of poor personal form--- lack of option plays needs to be addressed also.
Even if we only stuck with our standard pet plays and only improved our go forward/penetration we would win 90% of our games but will that be good enough against an in form Dragons team or top 3 team probably not but where still a good chance on our day.

I personally feel modern day younger halves have more base skills than the past and require less first grade time to be ready to win a GF---yes experience will increase composure under pressure and taking the right options but i would not count out young halves or even first year NRL halves to not have what it takes to win a premiership.

If our forwards dominate we are in with a big chance this year even if in reality its a bonus year. Next year i'm sure more attacking option structures will be introduced even though i still think more should be done this year.

---

according to our 'stat leaders' on the MWSE website, Buhrer is the only forward to break the 100m mark in the past 3 games.

Ouch!!

Let's see what the spin doctors come up with in regards to this...

How many long breaks did he make to generate those numbers. I'm not targeting back rowers in relation to go forward even though there is too much side ways movement from all forwards----its mainly the front row.

The lethargic moments are noticed when the attack has moved away from him in defence and he is in the back play---all players do it but i see him struggle to close inside holes that may occur.

 

[susan]

Masked eagle

1261 metres per game - go to the Manly v easts teams thread.It is in the preview downloaded off NRL website.

Being 3rd out of 16 suggests the Saints are very good defensively and they are.

Still the favourites in my view.Like last year at this time I have backed them to win it(witha heavy heart) and got great odds on us at juicy odds so a nice saver as well.

---

Masked eagle

1261 metres per game - go to the Manly v easts teams thread.It is in the preview downloaded off NRL website.

Being 3rd out of 16 suggests the Saints are very good defensively and they are.

Still the favourites in my view.Like last year at this time I have backed them to win it(witha heavy heart) and got great odds on us at juicy odds so a nice saver as well.

sorry misread your words.3rd MOST metres.That is surprising.

 

[Technical Coach]

Dragons Red Zone defence and reading plays is what they are best in the league at---20m to 20m defence this year is not as good as last year but even last year at times there were yardage gains to be had if your go forward was sharp and effective.

I feel the same way about Melbourne this year---there are massive yardage gains possible in their defensive sets and if Manly play high tempo and straight early then mix it up with angled runners and offloads like 08 we will slaughter them early--easier said than done though.

I personally feel Manly in form and at their best combined with Dessie knowing Melbourne inside out that we should easily dispose of Melbourne----Dragons are the benchmark still and our attack still struggles to find or create openings in their red zone.

 

[Stevo]

according to our 'stat leaders' on the MWSE website, Buhrer is the only forward to break the 100m mark in the past 3 games.

Well it hasn't helped him score in supercoach. Dropped!

 

[Technical Coach]

according to our 'stat leaders' on the MWSE website, Buhrer is the only forward to break the 100m mark in the past 3 games.

NRL stats shows he has only broken 100m once in the last 5 games----in the end Buhrer is a hole runner and angled runner with footwork who should work off quick play the balls hitting holes around the ruck and running off Foran.(in other words i dont care about his go forward numbers more line breaks and good defence when it counts)

I don't look to Buhrer for the hard yards and was not judging his lethargic nature in relation to go forward.

119m against Newcastle--- i guess that final line break helped those numbers but thats just rubbing it in----i would rather an average 1-2 line breaks and only having 50-70m per game if that illustrates my point better.

 

[Stevo]

I swear it's Des...........

 

[Technical Coach]

Finally i've been outed---not that there is anything wrong with that, it was fun while it lasted though.

In the end i was just addressing the concerns of members in relation to my lack of media communication skills giving too many cliche responses and low word counts in my direct replies to reporters.

I'm also fully aware my prolonged pauses between each short sentence was damaging the Manly brand as you would expect the Manly fan base demographic to consist of well spoken intellectuals and this should be reflected in the coach as well.

Anyway we're still in the mix struggling along---stick with us and thanks for the continued support.

Des

 

[twitchk]

according to our 'stat leaders' on the MWSE website, Buhrer is the only forward to break the 100m mark in the past 3 games.

NRL stats shows he has only broken 100m once in the last 5 games----in the end Buhrer is a hole runner and angled runner with footwork who should work off quick play the balls hitting holes around the ruck and running off Foran.(in other words i dont care about his go forward numbers more line breaks and good defence when it counts)

I don't look to Buhrer for the hard yards and was not judging his lethargic nature in relation to go forward.

119m against Newcastle--- i guess that final line break helped those numbers but thats just rubbing it in----i would rather an average 1-2 line breaks and only having 50-70m per game if that illustrates my point better.

couldn't agree more des..