Forwards?

[the mauler]

Just had a look at the stats from last weeks game, and not 1 forward broke the 100m mark 4 the game.
For mine that's where our problems in past few games stem from, our distinct lack of go forward.
Some boofheads on this forum have been bagging fozzy and DCE being poor in recent weeks.Clearly our forwards just havent layed any platform for our halves 2 operate.
If our halves had the same go forward, and possession that the tigers had we would have whacked em!
Time for our pack to stand up and let fozzy and DCE do their thing.

 

[jjai]

Just had a look at the stats from last weeks game, and not 1 forward broke the 100m mark 4 the game.
For mine that's where our problems in past few games stem from, our distinct lack of go forward.
Some boofheads on this forum have been bagging fozzy and DCE being poor in recent week. Clearly our forwards just havent layed any platform for our halves 2 operate.
If our halves had the same go forward, and possession that the tigers had we would have whacked em!
Time for our pack to stand up and let fozzy and DCE do their thing.

Really ????? fuk Rodney made over 60 in one run?? are you sure ?? It was pretty hard when you are starved of possession for 10minutes & when things look like they are about to change the ref counter acted it with his dimwitted interpretation
e.g Jamie Lyon`s apparent knock on from a pass by tigers player that travelled forward , it was more like he was blocking his face not actually going for the ball..
As you can tell that incident is still Fuk`n me off :argue: :argue: :argue:

 

[DSM5]

Kitey and Princess need to get moving.........forward.

 

[MK Eagle]

The structure we use in attack aims loads of scooters like Hoppa & Wolf who often clock up 200m+ but gives the Manly pack much less metres - i think Des uses this ploy for a more energetic defensive game. The prob i have seen recently with the pack is lack of mongrel - rarely a big shot & often getting worked over in the ruck slowing the play the ball up all day - i think this is whats effecting the young halves - takes away their time, options & space as the defence is getting opportunity to rush them. Hope T Rex can bend the line & give them something to work with on Sunday.

 

[the mauler]

Nice summary Mk. Never in my wildest dreams would I be hangin for Trex to comeback! But we desperately need his barnstorming charges 2 get us going forward.

 

[anthonyb1965]

The structure we use in attack aims loads of scooters like Hoppa & Wolf who often clock up 200m+ but gives the Manly pack much less metres - i think Des uses this ploy for a more energetic defensive game. The prob i have seen recently with the pack is lack of mongrel - rarely a big shot & often getting worked over in the ruck slowing the play the ball up all day - i think this is whats effecting the young halves - takes away their time, options & space as the defence is getting opportunity to rush them. Hope T Rex can bend the line & give them something to work with on Sunday.

Spot on, there is nothing else

 

[Masked Eagle]

I'm not really sure if thats the case. We don't do that much dummy half running, actually no one really does much dummy half running these days. Its because of the change in the ruck rule, its made it a lot harder to make those easy metres. Most of Hoppas and Wolfmans metres come from kick returns. Its actually very rare teams will have more than one or two forwards make over 100m each game so if everyone made about 80m then its more than reasonable IMO. In fact Choc is our only forward who averages over 100m per game and we've gone reasonably well so far this year so I don't think its a problem. I actually think our go forward has been pretty good this year, I can't think of any game where we have struggled to get out of our own end. That includes the losses.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Our go forward is very good. Any current NRL coach (or even TC) will tell you that if possession swings agaisnt you then your go forward will suffer, and other parts of your game will then suiffer also. That is why penalties are so significant.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

King is coming back from injury, he is our forward leader this year. Do you want us peaking in R20?

 

[Technical Coach]

Our go forward is very good. Any current NRL coach (or even TC) will tell you that if possession swings agaisnt you then your go forward will suffer, and other parts of your game will then suiffer also. That is why penalties are so significant.

Our go forward is too inconsistent from game to game and even within each game---overall it needs to straighten, simplify and penetrate through the line before the fancy forward interchange of passes can be introduced. People read too much into possession swings like its some conspiracy against a team in relation to penalties or due to poor ball handling.
We have to stop blaming the obvious reasons why possession swings occur and look to rectify patterns of play that help induce poor discipline or risk taking in our go forward sets.

Possession swings will always occur thats the nature of the game so i don't totally agree with what your saying but in some instances i see your point.

 

[swoop]

We have one forward other than Rose who can make yards up the middle and that's Joe G and Rodney's starting to do the same. Kite backs into the defence too often, King should try to run between players and not directly at them, Gift plays out wide as a second 5/8th and Choc has been crabbing across field a bit. We need go forward, quick play-the-balls for our halves and backs to do their stuff.

With no go foward our halves and backs have the defence in their faces as we saw in the match against the tigers.

 

[Technical Coach]

The structure we use in attack aims loads of scooters like Hoppa & Wolf who often clock up 200m+ but gives the Manly pack much less metres - i think Des uses this ploy for a more energetic defensive game. The prob i have seen recently with the pack is lack of mongrel - rarely a big shot & often getting worked over in the ruck slowing the play the ball up all day - i think this is whats effecting the young halves - takes away their time, options & space as the defence is getting opportunity to rush them. Hope T Rex can bend the line & give them something to work with on Sunday.

Standard deviation would suggest around 3-4 forwards get close to or break the 100m mark with most players under 60 and quite a few under 40 and some not breaking a sweat if not interchanged. Some explosive wingers fullbacks and centres will generate good numbers off the back of kick returns,quick play the balls, or hole running which are not really the numbers your looking at in relation to gaining consistent good go forward but it all helps.

We look flat in all areas and i hope its just increased intensity at training before the tapering off period for the semi's--the top teams are all looking flat at the moment.

I've never been a big fan of our go forward for a while----its not about looking at the numbers and stats its looking at how those numbers are generated and where those numbers are being generated in relation to field position and if its a kick return hole running or off the back of a quick play the ball-----not all good overall numbers mean good go forward when it counts.

---

We have one forward other than Rose who can make yards up the middle and that's Joe G and Rodney's starting to do the same. Kite backs into the defence too often, King should try to run between players and not directly at them, Gift plays out wide as a second 5/8th and Choc has been crabbing across field a bit. We need go forward, quick play-the-balls for our halves and backs to do their stuff.

With no go foward our halves and backs have the defence in their faces as we saw in the match against the tigers.

Totally agree-----Kites go forward has been going down hill for a while due to the focus on his knee lift and overly working around the problem to counter his habit but to the detriment of his penetration through the line----King also has a high knee lift that causes trouble at times.

Our halves lack space and playing against forward moving defensive lines.

 

[the mauler]

Last week we got monstered by the tigers pack was embarrassing. Gareth Ellis gave it to us bigtime, Gallaway and even that cream puff Gibbs had it over us.
We need to find out aggression again quickly, as that's a big part of our make up.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

If our forwards are using makeup could that be the problem?

 

[susan]

Guess who is the number 1 team for metres conceded this year.Yes you got it-Manly.

Much of the above comment is simply a reaction to a couple of ordinary performances.You don't get to be number 1 in the metres conceded category without doing something right and defence wins comps.In attack we get a lot more metres than most from our second rowers like chock and joe than other sides who rely a lot more on the front rowers.Our is more evenly spread and would be better if Kite and King lifted a little which will happen as the games get bigger. To suggest our pack is a major problem is totally wrong and jumping at shadows.Most sides who play us get beat next week and most rate us the toughest defensive pack in the comp or close to it so get a grip guys- WE ARE DOING PLENTY RIGHT.

The inconsistency stems from having a young halves pairing who are learning quickly but can drift in and out of games under pressure.This is to be expected and will get better.i think DCE in particular and Foran are a year short of a title in regrds to decision making and this will be our undoing this year at the backend.Watch out 2012 onwards-these blokes are future champions.Foran is already there in terms of toughness and reading a game-he just needs tpo pace himself better.DCE is simply learning and learning fast.

 

[the mauler]

Susan, my comments are in regards to the last couple of games not the entire season. So u think our downfall in last 2 games were due to our halves? Uv got to be kidding.

 

[susan]

not saying that at all.read what i said.i said people are overreacting to a couple of down efforts by the pigs.

Tn the contrary you have to be kidding if you base a prediction on a couple of ordinary games from the pack at the back end of a season.The dragons have had a couple of weak efforts but write them of at your peril IMO.

I prefer to look at the season as a whole whereby we are clearly at the top of the pack in defence and have consistently hurt teams as the following weeks results suggest.We don't have the best go forward but we are right up there in metres gained as well.Combining attack and defence we are in the top couple of sides re forward play.

With the exception of Perry no rookie halfback has won a comp in thirty years and he had Lockyer outside him.With the exception of Pollar Mounter,Perry,Orford and Hornby every GF winning half in that time has played for Australia.

My point is simple-I don't think we can win the title because our halves need more time,it won't be down to forwards.King,Kite,Watmough,Stewart,Gnuluvua,Ballin,Rodney have won GF's.They will get the job done at the back end.

This year has been a sensation in my view and two or 3 games over a long season doesn't alter that.

 

[the mauler]

Don't see anywhere in my thread that iv made any predictions because of the last 2 games. My point was that we can't blame our halves for a couple of average games.
Personally I think last weeks loss will do us good, should fire up our pack 2 get back to their best. I definitely haven't given up on the season because of a couple of average games. It's a long season where everyone has a flat patch, and hopefully we peak finals time.

 

[Stevo]

How are any of our forwards supposed to break 100m when we hardly had the ball in the second half?

 

[MK Eagle]

I'm not really sure if thats the case. We don't do that much dummy half running, actually no one really does much dummy half running these days. Its because of the change in the ruck rule, its made it a lot harder to make those easy metres. Most of Hoppas and Wolfmans metres come from kick returns. Its actually very rare teams will have more than one or two forwards make over 100m each game so if everyone made about 80m then its more than reasonable IMO. In fact Choc is our only forward who averages over 100m per game and we've gone reasonably well so far this year so I don't think its a problem. I actually think our go forward has been pretty good this year, I can't think of any game where we have struggled to get out of our own end. That includes the losses.

Count the dummy half runs or hitups by the wingers , especially in our own half on Sunday. Can guarantee Hoppas metres are 80% from here not kick returns & you will find the opposition kicking game will be actually aimed at Oldfield & not Hoppa this weekend.
Also TC, totally disagree about go foward not being linked with quick play the balls. The majority of games are won & lost in the ruck area & whoever dominates the speed of the play the ball determines not only go foward but also line breaks. When the ball is played slowly the ruck area becomes lethargic & the attack is often forced sideways , very obvious in recent games & a signicant reason the metres are down when not playing direct.