Fatty says Tom will be best ever

[Kevinward777]

We are so fortunate to have this family at the club.

 

[Briza]

Injury free Tom could eclipse both stat wise, although without kangaroo tour's it may be hard to beat 20 international's.
That said Wombat has my vote, Snake was a phenom and injury really killed his rep career.
If not for knee injuries we'd be saying Billy who?
Tom has really started his career well and could be up there among the greats of all time with some good fortune.

 

[Technical Coach]

So if he gets two or more try on Wed night he won't have the record.
OK I see where your going with this.

The only people who care about a try scoring record in Origin is the media seeking a new headline/content and some fans.

How many people even valued/cared or were aware of Lote Tuquri's record.

 

[Technical Coach]

Zero chance?
Why the need to be so harsh about one of our own?
Truth is, you do not have a crystal ball, you can't even tell me what I'll be doing today, so how you think you can predict the outcome of an entire career is beyond me.
Settle petal.

Predicted many before doesn't mean i will be right though "obviously"--- but i have every right to express an opinion that is not just some niceties because he plays for Manly and to stroke his ego.

Will be a good player but wont even surpass Brett Stewart in the Manly's greatest lineup unless the interchange goes down to six.

Will be injury riddled throughout his entire career and be held back in the same way as Inglis, combined that with a lack of footwork, ball skills, kicking skills and general footy smarts most of his play will be limited to spark through the middle and push up plays.(and still be a very good player with such limitations)

In Tom's favour is that he is still young and can develop more elements to his game but it wont come naturally.

There is no risk to Bozo losing his crown at Manly....

 

[Technical Coach]

The thing is though that truly great players always seem to be in the right place at the right time. It takes a football brain to make that look easy

The thing is though that truly great players always seem to be in the right place at the right time. It takes a football brain to make that look easy

I agree but fans/commentators etc are taking away from the efforts of other players in the same game just because a player scored three tries, where two of them were support plays.(admire the effort and not switching off in the middle which shows good Origin qualities)

 

[Technical Coach]

Have to disagree TC. I've never in my 55 years of watching the game seen someone explode onto the scene at Manly so effectively and in such dominating manner than this guy. I agree we are well ahead of ourselves suggesting he will be the best or near best at this stage. But saying 'no chance'? I remember Bob Fulton in his early years. Outstanding and dominated many games. This kid is just as dominant at aged 22 as Fulton was, maybe even more so. As Fatty says injuries will decide the issue. But at this stage he is well on the way to being one of Manly's all time greats.

Even though i didn't rate Brett Stewart as highly as others here in the "ballplaying element" Brett bursted onto the scene and had the crowds flocking to Brookie for a period of time.

 

[Technical Coach]

Great stats Woodsie and you make a good point about dominance. Wombat and Snake were surrounded by great players (and coaching staff) who complimented their ability and playing style. Seems a while ago but only last year Tom shared equal top try scorer credits for MW with Shaun Lane with 9. In 2008: Snake had 22, Robbo 18, Wolfman 14, Beaver 13, Bell 11.

Brett wasn't surrounded by great players and staff----they all showed growth to become some of Manly's greats-----Manly wasn't topping the ladder when Brett started in the same way as Tom now.

 

[Technical Coach]

I sure Hope he ends up MANS best ever. But Gee, how many Grand Finals has he currently won us? There is a bloody long journey to go before the Turbo even being our best ever no 1 should be even imagined.

So much media hysteria after 1 good origin game.

Is it rather disrespectful of club legends like wombat, Ridgey, and Snake?

I would place Lyons in the top list also, from the mid to late 80's all the way to the late 90's his try assist ability through ball playing alone kept Manly in contention most years---no way in hell Manly reach four grand finals during this period if Lyons was not our 5/8.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Wombat in my opinion is and will always be our best ever fullback.

And yes I’m aware of Brett’s try scoring ability AND Turbo’s freakish skills.

If you never saw him you never knew him.

I was blessed to do so.

He is the greatest ever.

 

[EaglesDontTweet]

Brett wasn't surrounded by great players and staff----they all showed growth to become some of Manly's greats-----Manly wasn't topping the ladder when Brett started in the same way as Tom now.

Let's hope Des can weave the same magic second time round, eh TC?

 

[Snake]

I think there is an element of media hysteria around Tom at the moment. He did play well in Origin II and he has been exceptional in the limited opportunities he has had at club level so far this year...but some of the articles are a bit intense, in my opinion.

However, I am not sure how @Technical Coach has come up with the idea that Tom is not much more than a running threat through the middle. He is a smart footballer and sees things, puts himself in the frame and uses his athleticism to take advantage of what he sees. He spotted the weakness around the ruck against Saints and ran into the space and put Fainu over...that's smart football. The coaching staff at Manly use his "eyes" to call things in attack all the time and he provides as much talk and direction as DCE in getting the team around the park.

Sure, he doesn't have the sharpest long passing game but watch the ball he threw to put Siro over against the Cowboys; not too shabby a ball player! Watch the footwork and the pick up for his try against the Warriors off the ricochet grubber kick...very impressive. There is plenty more to his game than just athleticism, he has great instincts. He reads the game really well and it is very hard to train that in a player; not impossible, but very difficult.

Overall, I think players need to win premierships with clubs to be talked about as one of the greats. Odds are it will happen for the Trobjevic boys but Snake and Gifty were winners and their competitiveness helped win us two competitions...Jake and Tom need to do the same before they will overtake those two legends.

 

[lsz]

I find the whole "best of all time" a silly argument.

The game changes so much it is difficult to rate players against each other. As an example was Wombat as good as he was playing against non professional players? Or how good could he have been if he was also professional? Or against the 10mtr rule

The only player I can see who transcends this argument (potentially) is someone like Bradman who had an average so far above everyone else

 

[Freagle]

I think there is an element of media hysteria around Tom at the moment. He did play well in Origin II and he has been exceptional in the limited opportunities he has had at club level so far this year...but some of the articles are a bit intense, in my opinion.

However, I am not sure how @Technical Coach has come up with the idea that Tom is not much more than a running threat through the middle. He is a smart footballer and sees things, puts himself in the frame and uses his athleticism to take advantage of what he sees. He spotted the weakness around the ruck against Saints and ran into the space and put Fainu over...that's smart football. The coaching staff at Manly use his "eyes" to call things in attack all the time and he provides as much talk and direction as DCE in getting the team around the park.

Sure, he doesn't have the sharpest long passing game but watch the ball he threw to put Siro over against the Cowboys; not too shabby a ball player! Watch the footwork and the pick up for his try against the Warriors off the ricochet grubber kick...very impressive. There is plenty more to his game than just athleticism, he has great instincts. He reads the game really well and it is very hard to train that in a player; not impossible, but very difficult.

Overall, I think players need to win premierships with clubs to be talked about as one of the greats. Odds are it will happen for the Trobjevic boys but Snake and Gifty were winners and their competitiveness helped win us two competitions...Jake and Tom need to do the same before they will overtake those two legends.

Agreed - he is definitely a very capable ball-player, and has great vision - both when in support himself, and finding a supporting player. Suggesting he's just 'spark around the middle' is a bit limiting IMO. But yeah...remember how many mistakes he had in his game last season as well, and the media hysteria is perhaps a little premature? Still - three tries in origin is no mean feat either.

 

[grassy]

Tommy is great and so was Stewart but wombat was literally a brick wall at the back. Back in the day Wombat was the last line of defence and the opposition often ended up on their back. Never forget them days watching Manly play and always thinking that Wombat was there at the back just waiting to crunch someone head on. Then we have his stats.

 

[Bearfax]

Even though i didn't rate Brett Stewart as highly as others here in the "ballplaying element" Brett bursted onto the scene and had the crowds flocking to Brookie for a period of time.

I think I implied that by saying he could have been the best full back we had. Injury ad the court case stuffed that up. He was well on the way to breaking Irvine's try scoring record and was well ahead of Slater before injuries struck, despite Slater being older. Tom isn't as fast and is still learning the ropes., but I think as happens a lot, the perception about past stars is seeing them at their peak and forgetting they had to develop.

Lets see what they started out like. Both started when 18, but Tom played 9 first grade games at that age, Stewart one. Tom first represented Australia when aged 20 years, Stewart at 22 years. Tom played his first state game at 21, Stewart at 22. Stewart was a sensational player but it took him a little while, just as it has with Tom, to start being called a master in the role. He certainly scored a lot of tries, but Tom's general play saw him getting into rep football earlier

 

[Blake A]

I hope Fatty is right, but at this stage I would say it is going a bit far. I know many may debate this, but I think Tedesco is overall a better fullback than Tom, and I wouldn't say Tedesco is better than Brett Stewart. So how, we could then go a further step and say Tom could be our best player ever is a big prediction. Personally, I would say Fulton has that status sown up at this stage. I know backs get the glory, but I'd almost go as far as saying that Jake T is the better player of the 2 brothers... just my opinion.

 

[Fluffy]

To be fair, Tom is twenty two. By twenty years of age Graham Eadie had played in two premiership winning sides and represented Australia in two Kangaroo Internationals in England. And Eadie was Manly's highest point scorer in 1973 at age 19.
Wombat played in four Manly Premiership winning sides and featured in many final series.

Different times sure, but I think the score should be calculated at the end and not the beginning (as I guess Fatty is implying).

I hope Tom get's there.

I do agree with Fatty's comment about Manly's player history. Even without my maroon and white glasses, we have been generously blessed with some of the elite (and most entertaining) players of the modern era (based on reading signed jerseys).

Yep, Eadie was killing it for a long time and Stewarts organizing skills were the backbone of our 10 years of dominance.

I really hope Fatty is right as it means Tom has improved a lot and we have 2-4 premierships coming

 

[nightster]

wish they'd all stop talking him up .... see what it did to Latrell

 

[Technical Coach]

I think there is an element of media hysteria around Tom at the moment. He did play well in Origin II and he has been exceptional in the limited opportunities he has had at club level so far this year...but some of the articles are a bit intense, in my opinion.

However, I am not sure how @Technical Coach has come up with the idea that Tom is not much more than a running threat through the middle. He is a smart footballer and sees things, puts himself in the frame and uses his athleticism to take advantage of what he sees. He spotted the weakness around the ruck against Saints and ran into the space and put Fainu over...that's smart football. The coaching staff at Manly use his "eyes" to call things in attack all the time and he provides as much talk and direction as DCE in getting the team around the park.

Sure, he doesn't have the sharpest long passing game but watch the ball he threw to put Siro over against the Cowboys; not too shabby a ball player! Watch the footwork and the pick up for his try against the Warriors off the ricochet grubber kick...very impressive. There is plenty more to his game than just athleticism, he has great instincts. He reads the game really well and it is very hard to train that in a player; not impossible, but very difficult.

Overall, I think players need to win premierships with clubs to be talked about as one of the greats. Odds are it will happen for the Trobjevic boys but Snake and Gifty were winners and their competitiveness helped win us two competitions...Jake and Tom need to do the same before they will overtake those two legends.

Using the ball to Siro as an example of "ball playing" really is clutching at straws---good ball yes but i wouldn't be using that to give weight to an argument.

Yes Tom has good attacking instincts never once said otherwise, all i am saying is Tom is most effective through the middle third and that fans seeing this dominant area of his attacking game seem to think it naturally flows all over the park in all elements of attack when it doesn't.

Very good player but all this greatness talk is over hyping his qualities and current status in the game.

 

[Technical Coach]

I think I implied that by saying he could have been the best full back we had. Injury ad the court case stuffed that up. He was well on the way to breaking Irvine's try scoring record and was well ahead of Slater before injuries struck, despite Slater being older. Tom isn't as fast and is still learning the ropes., but I think as happens a lot, the perception about past stars is seeing them at their peak and forgetting they had to develop.

Lets see what they started out like. Both started when 18, but Tom played 9 first grade games at that age, Stewart one. Tom first represented Australia when aged 20 years, Stewart at 22 years. Tom played his first state game at 21, Stewart at 22. Stewart was a sensational player but it took him a little while, just as it has with Tom, to start being called a master in the role. He certainly scored a lot of tries, but Tom's general play saw him getting into rep football earlier

Tom's last origin game was disappointing----he seemed disappointed in himself also after the game----like the game got away from him and didn't involve himself enough----mind you Fittler might not have wanted Tom to float around as much during a decider.