Pre-Game Dragons v Manly [Round 4, 2024]

GAME ON! Head over to the Game Thread!

V
20 12
WIN Stadium
30 Mar 2024 05:30 PM

Team Lists

# Player Player #
1 T. Sloan T. Trbojevic 1
2 Z. Lomax T. Talau 19
3 M. Suli T. Koula 3
4 J. Bird R. Garrick 4
5 M. Ravalawa J. Paulo 5
6 K. Flanagan L. Brooks 6
7 B. Hunt D. Cherry-Evans 7
8 F. Molo T. Paseka 8
9 J. Liddle L. Croker 9
10 B. Lawrie J. Aloiai 10
11 L. Leilua H. Olakau'atu 11
12 J. Su'a B. Trbojevic 12
17 R. Faitala-Mariner J. Trbojevic 13
13 T. Eisenhuth K. Lawton 14
14 J. Marschke C. Waddell 15
15 J. De Belin N. Brown 17
16 H. Sele T. Sipley 22
19 M. Molo E. Bullemor 16

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PONTIAN SEA EAGLE said:
We’re getting caught out wide especially with the wingers coming in defending,unfortunately it’s most sides these days.What ever happened to using a sliding defence like we used to have under bozo coaching?? The sides using this i.e. rooster,Penrith,melb,broncos are always able to hold out sides defending.
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It’s not that sides have a different structure to us. No disrespect, but if people like us can spot a difference, it’s definitely not going to be lost on a full time NRL coach…like, it’s not a case of Seibs just failing to tune into some Penrith games and missed the memo about the slide defence.

There are occasions when Penrith ‘hit in’ like we do, it’s just a lot less because they control the ruck and slow it down with their brilliant first up contact and wrestle, giving them leeway in the ruck. That means teams are shifting against them off slow play the balls, giving their defence time to set properly, number up and slide.

Manly on the hand, do not always win the middle and teams shift off fast play the balls, so the middle is compressed and almost retreating and it creates a domino effect. Hitting in is not so much a strategy, as it is a necessity. It’s your best hope of stopping a try in that situation.

Sometimes it’s panic, yes, but often it’s a last resort after the opposition has blown the middle open.
 
LeonardCohen said:
It’s not that sides have a different structure to us. No disrespect, but if people like us can spot a difference, it’s definitely not going to be lost on a full time NRL coach…like, it’s not a case of Seibs just failing to tune into some Penrith games and missed the memo about the slide defence.

There are occasions when Penrith ‘hit in’ like we do, it’s just a lot less because they control the ruck and slow it down with their brilliant first up contact and wrestle, giving them leeway in the ruck. That means teams are shifting against them off slow play the balls, giving their defence time to set properly, number up and slide.

Manly on the hand, do not always win the middle and teams shift off fast play the balls, so the middle is compressed and almost retreating and it creates a domino effect. Hitting in is not so much a strategy, as it is a necessity. It’s your best hope of stopping a try in that situation.

Sometimes it’s panic, yes, but often it’s a last resort after the opposition has blown the middle open.
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Interesting when Manly did engage a form of up or in then slide defence , whether in the Bozo or Des eras , Manly outside backs seemed to manage it quite well .
Guys like Killer , Matai , Bell , Terry Hill , Innes , often used to notice them initially move up or slightly in but then seemed to relatively easy revert to a slide movement if required .
Maybe the general attack is a bit more rapid in recent times , not discounting your observation of some sides having very well or better managed ruck control
Also in terms of outside backs , some sides have players who can or are much more effective in rushing up or in and closing or shutting the attack down .
Sabb was getting better at it until injured , other Manly wingers maybe a bit inexperienced right now but Koula and Garrick have the agility to adjust to whatever best defensive reads
 
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manly al said:
Interesting when Manly did engage a form of up or in then slide defence , whether in the Bozo or Des eras , Manly outside backs seemed to manage it quite well .
Guys like Killer , Matai , Bell , Terry Hill , Innes , often used to notice them initially move up or slightly in but then seemed to relatively easy revert to a slide movement if required .
Maybe the general attack is a bit more rapid in recent times , not discounting your observation of some sides having very well or better managed ruck control
Also in terms of outside backs , some sides have players who can or are much more effective in rushing up or in and closing or shutting the attack down .
Sabb was getting better at it until injured , other Manly wingers maybe a bit inexperienced right now but Koula and Garrick have the agility to adjust to whatever best defensive reads
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The game has changed so much since the Fulton days of slide defence. The attacking structures of teams is so refined, that you can’t rely on a one size fits all process. It’s a different approach for a different context.

You’re absolutely right though in that certain players are better than others at managing that system. Inexperience and general footy smarts will still play a role in the success of the system. A few have mentioned DCE as a potential issue and I have to agree with them to some extent. His reads aren’t the best. Great physical defender but his decision making is not always great. He is very passive and although he needs to hold for a lead runner, he is very casual about it and gives the opposition time to pull the right rein with the ball.
 
LeonardCohen said:
The game has changed so much since the Fulton days of slide defence. The attacking structures of teams is so refined, that you can’t rely on a one size fits all process. It’s a different approach for a different context.

You’re absolutely right though in that certain players are better than others at managing that system. Inexperience and general footy smarts will still play a role in the success of the system. A few have mentioned DCE as a potential issue and I have to agree with them to some extent. His reads aren’t the best. Great physical defender but his decision making is not always great. He is very passive and although he needs to hold for a lead runner, he is very casual about it and gives the opposition time to pull the right rein with the ball.
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Spot on
 
Daily Telegraph reporting Sipley in top 17 and will play on Saturday.

Manly will welcome back Toafofoa Sipley for his first match of the season after being suspended in the pre-season. Sipley missed the opening three games because of a crusher tackle on Roosters flyer Dom Young.
The ban meant Sipley was unavailable for the historic Las Vegas season opener. The prop, who was named as part of the extended squad, will come into Manly’s top 17 to take on the Dragons.
 
Wombat64 said:
Daily Telegraph reporting Sipley in top 17 and will play on Saturday.

Manly will welcome back Toafofoa Sipley for his first match of the season after being suspended in the pre-season. Sipley missed the opening three games because of a crusher tackle on Roosters flyer Dom Young.
The ban meant Sipley was unavailable for the historic Las Vegas season opener. The prop, who was named as part of the extended squad, will come into Manly’s top 17 to take on the Dragons.
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Probably a good thing, who misses out? Waddell, Bully or Burbo? Probably Waddell. I wouldn‘t mind seeing Wad given the opportunity to start, Burbo back to the bench, which would likely mean Bull gets a spell, guess that probably won’t be happening, just think it would offer us a stronger side.
 
LeonardCohen said:
The game has changed so much since the Fulton days of slide defence. The attacking structures of teams is so refined, that you can’t rely on a one size fits all process. It’s a different approach for a different context.

You’re absolutely right though in that certain players are better than others at managing that system. Inexperience and general footy smarts will still play a role in the success of the system. A few have mentioned DCE as a potential issue and I have to agree with them to some extent. His reads aren’t the best. Great physical defender but his decision making is not always great. He is very passive and although he needs to hold for a lead runner, he is very casual about it and gives the opposition time to pull the right rein with the ball.
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It's more the centre and the winger cannot read the play and don't communicate.

Penrith's outside backs all move up or slide together. Last weekend either Garrick moved up and Paulo stayed back or Paulo rushed in and tackled Garrick player he had totally covered.

Garrick is a winger playing centre. Centre is almost the hardest defensive position on the field.

100% true re what happens on the inside, if you cannot control the ruck, or play the ball speed or offloads, the outside backs will be put under pressure.

It's about not panicking and breaking the structure in D which Penrith does so well, often a player in the Manly backline will break from the structure causing an opening.
 
Rafferty said:
Probably a good thing, who misses out? Waddell, Bully or Burbo? Probably Waddell. I wouldn‘t mind seeing Wad given the opportunity to start, Burbo back to the bench, which would likely mean Bull gets a spell, guess that probably won’t be happening, just think it would offer us a stronger side.
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I thought Waddell was our best forward in the second half v Parra. Which says a lot.
 
The Who said:
timeIf the defending winger stays with his man and the opposition centre scores then it's the defensive centre who'll get blamed.
A winger rushing in and not stopping the play looks terrible.
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Like I've said previously, I'd hate to be an NRL winger.

You're expected to be faster than everyone else, to score tries every game, to have the aerial skills of an AFL player, and the ability to do effective early tackle hit ups while your forwards amble back onside.

But even if you've got all of that ... heaven help you if a try or 2 or 3 is scored down your side because 9 times out of 10 you'll cop the blame, the whole blame and nothing but the blame regardless of you came in or stayed out.

Sometimes when a try is scored down their flank, the winger is to blame. Sometimes, not.....but they'll usually get some blame for it.
 
Waddel out
Sips in

No contest, Sipley has a far bigger ceiling than Waddel. Against Dragons our far superior forward pack should dominate. Of course Dragons are our bogey side, so who the fuk knows.
 
Always a danger game for us, our record in the Gong is atrocious to say the least.

They are boosted with some people coming back, they also got smacked at home last week. We are coming off a difficult and tough game and we will need to not allow them to get off to a big start.

I believe we will win as long as we do the basics, their defence is not great and we have plenty of points in us!
 
I think this is closer than the bookies are making out. $3.30 odd is reasonable for the queens. That said, if we take it to them in the middle, we should get home.
 
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