Does toovs have tough road ahead

[Matabele]

I expect we will win this year.

 

[Bradza]

I expect we will win this year.

At least once or twice I hope.

 

[Ryan]

An absolute last resort for Jamie Bhurer to play centre.

Agreed. But Tooves does put him there.

No-one carries a centre or winger on the bench so Tooves IS using him there as a last resort, much the same as the great "Beaver" did. Who else would you guys suggest?

When you say "no-one", I recall (as one example) Anthony Quinn at The Storm being on, and coming off the bench many times for the Storm those years ago when they were rorting the cap, and they did just fine.

I'm really not a fan of Buhrer coming on and playing in the centres. He's far too slow, and any right minded team will, and have targeted that. We all saw that quite a few times last season. With guys like Wolfman, B Stewart very unlucky with injury, and a guy like Matai who often spends large periods of games injured, a utility backline player may be really beneficial.

But "who" is the very important and appropriate question. If we want true backline utility, I'd go for Ben Farrar, if at full strength Taufua and Wolman are our wingers.

Alternatively, I'd keep the spot open for a player (noting all the veteran players in our team) that I'm looking to blood for future opportunities, and I'm thinking of players like Clinton Gutherson, Peta Hiku or at a stretch, Liam Foran (who I really, really think deserves a bigger opportunity), who could always slot into the halves, with Kieran Foran then moving further out into the back line.

BUT, I will say that the speed issues may be some what ironed out this year with probably Justin Horo taking Tony Williams spot, who could also slot into centre, because it was really a mixture of Williams and Buhrer who got turned inside out a few times out wide last season (which is not their fault).

Personally, I'm a fan of a utility on the bench that could cover the halves, centre and 5/8. I think Buhrer should be a specialist backrower though, because he is outstanding there (I'm still hoping like Glenn Stewart, he puts on body mass, and becomes a ball playing backrower - which I whole heartedly believe he can).

All in all though, our options due to awesome depth are here now. Perry and his team of recruiters have done such an amazing job building what I think is one of Manly's strongest ever rosters (and balanced).

That's why I say Toovey would struggle NOT to do well. It's also why I question people who suggest we should "re-build", or that we may regress at all. That's BS to me, and I think it's quite insulting to both the players and management staff who have worked hard to create the well oiled machine we are.

Like Matabele said with wisdom, expectation from the fans, I'm sure the coaching staff and the players, and management should, and will be uber high this year. In my opinion, if Toovey (and his assistants) gets things right, we'll be looking forward to the 2014 WCC at this time, next year.

I place a HUGE weight on how Toovey has our team performing.

 

[swoop]

An absolute last resort for Jamie Bhurer to play centre.

Agreed. But Tooves does put him there.

No-one carries a centre or winger on the bench so Tooves IS using him there as a last resort, much the same as the great "Beaver" did. Who else would you guys suggest?

When you say "no-one", I recall (as one example) Anthony Quinn at The Storm being on, and coming off the bench many times for the Storm those years ago when they were rorting the cap, and they did just fine.

I'm really not a fan of Buhrer coming on and playing in the centres. He's far too slow, and any right minded team will, and have targeted that. We all saw that quite a few times last season. With guys like Wolfman, B Stewart very unlucky with injury, and a guy like Matai who often spends large periods of games injured, a utility backline player may be really beneficial.

But "who" is the very important and appropriate question. If we want true backline utility, I'd go for Ben Farrar, if at full strength Taufua and Wolman are our wingers.

Alternatively, I'd keep the spot open for a player (noting all the veteran players in our team) that I'm looking to blood for future opportunities, and I'm thinking of players like Clinton Gutherson, Peta Hiku or at a stretch, Liam Foran (who I really, really think deserves a bigger opportunity), who could always slot into the halves, with Kieran Foran then moving further out into the back line.

Quinn also slotted into the backrow so he wasn't selected as a backup centre or winger. I'm all for blooding these young blokes but until they can cement a spot in 1st grade Buhrer is the best option as he is the utility player and hence we can carry 3 big boppers plus Buhrer on the bench. BTW wasn't it Toovey that gave Liam a crack in the top grade?

The dog hardly changed the team before he left, two reasons for this 1) All the players were a couple of years younger (Obvious) and 2) We were mostly injury free. But he never blooded or dropped many players if they were inconsistant or out of form. He occasionally had to blood some when some of our players were on rep duty or injured, but no matter how well the replacements played they were sent back to the lower grades.

I see no reason why we can't win this years comp.

I also agree that if Horo can play consistant footy and cement a top grade spot then I think he more valuable thay Williams because of his speed, agility and ball playing skills.

Toovey will be fine providing we don't have too many injuries to our key players.

 

[Ryan]

An absolute last resort for Jamie Bhurer to play centre.

Agreed. But Tooves does put him there.

No-one carries a centre or winger on the bench so Tooves IS using him there as a last resort, much the same as the great "Beaver" did. Who else would you guys suggest?

When you say "no-one", I recall (as one example) Anthony Quinn at The Storm being on, and coming off the bench many times for the Storm those years ago when they were rorting the cap, and they did just fine.

I'm really not a fan of Buhrer coming on and playing in the centres. He's far too slow, and any right minded team will, and have targeted that. We all saw that quite a few times last season. With guys like Wolfman, B Stewart very unlucky with injury, and a guy like Matai who often spends large periods of games injured, a utility backline player may be really beneficial.

But "who" is the very important and appropriate question. If we want true backline utility, I'd go for Ben Farrar, if at full strength Taufua and Wolman are our wingers.

Alternatively, I'd keep the spot open for a player (noting all the veteran players in our team) that I'm looking to blood for future opportunities, and I'm thinking of players like Clinton Gutherson, Peta Hiku or at a stretch, Liam Foran (who I really, really think deserves a bigger opportunity), who could always slot into the halves, with Kieran Foran then moving further out into the back line.

Quinn also slotted into the backrow so he wasn't selected as a backup centre or winger. I'm all for blooding these young blokes but until they can cement a spot in 1st grade Buhrer is the best option as he is the utility player and hence we can carry 3 big boppers plus Buhrer on the bench. BTW wasn't it Toovey that gave Liam a crack in the top grade?

The dog hardly changed the team before he left, two reasons for this 1) All the players were a couple of years younger (Obvious) and 2) We were mostly injury free. But he never blooded or dropped many players if they were inconsistant or out of form. He occasionally had to blood some when some of our players were on rep duty or injured, but no matter how well the replacements played they were sent back to the lower grades.

I see no reason why we can't win this years comp.

I also agree that if Horo can play consistant footy and cement a top grade spot then I think he more valuable thay Williams because of his speed, agility and ball playing skills.

Toovey will be fine providing we don't have too many injuries to our key players.

To be fair, I didn't reference Des Hasler at all. This is about Manly with Toovey as coach being ahead of the rest of the competition in ideas, culture building, ability, innovation and strategy.

Understand your point about the bench though, but could maybe Liam Foran fit that bill? I think Liam is an amazing player, who was unfairly criticised by some. The kid had played 10 first grade games (your most certainly right about Toovey giving him his first start "at Manly" in the top grade), yet us fans wanted him to play like a 50 game NRL veteran, and that just never is the case.

The bench could then look like:
14. Liam Foran
15. Bopper 1
16. Bopper 2
17. Jamie Buhrer

The Boppers would be a mix of George Rose, Richie Fa'aoso, Joe Galuvao, Brenton Lawrence & Vic Mauro.

Teams are getting really fast out wide now, and I really don't think we can afford to have Buhrer in the back line again this year.

And apologies guys, this is not a thread hijack, but my comments support the fact I think our roster depth is so outstanding, that we have many, many options with quality, that should place Tooves in a very, VERY good position to do well, so the pressure on him should be pretty grand.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I agree with all those saying we look in good shape this year. I don't think Tooves will do it tough as we have a fantastic roster with heaps of experience plus a significant injection of fresh new blood (not calves blood, either).

The bookies currently have us just a touch behind last year's grand finalists, and level with Souths. I really like our chances.

 

[Mals]

Well Ryan at least we can be sure that you will keep the pressure up on Tooves this season

For me, our depth is excellent apart from our wingers. Guys mentioned like Hiku & Gutherson are young & untested plus I don't think Astro Boy is best suited on the wing.

 

[swoop]

Agreed. But Tooves does put him there.

No-one carries a centre or winger on the bench so Tooves IS using him there as a last resort, much the same as the great "Beaver" did. Who else would you guys suggest?

When you say "no-one", I recall (as one example) Anthony Quinn at The Storm being on, and coming off the bench many times for the Storm those years ago when they were rorting the cap, and they did just fine.

I'm really not a fan of Buhrer coming on and playing in the centres. He's far too slow, and any right minded team will, and have targeted that. We all saw that quite a few times last season. With guys like Wolfman, B Stewart very unlucky with injury, and a guy like Matai who often spends large periods of games injured, a utility backline player may be really beneficial.

But "who" is the very important and appropriate question. If we want true backline utility, I'd go for Ben Farrar, if at full strength Taufua and Wolman are our wingers.

Alternatively, I'd keep the spot open for a player (noting all the veteran players in our team) that I'm looking to blood for future opportunities, and I'm thinking of players like Clinton Gutherson, Peta Hiku or at a stretch, Liam Foran (who I really, really think deserves a bigger opportunity), who could always slot into the halves, with Kieran Foran then moving further out into the back line.

Quinn also slotted into the backrow so he wasn't selected as a backup centre or winger. I'm all for blooding these young blokes but until they can cement a spot in 1st grade Buhrer is the best option as he is the utility player and hence we can carry 3 big boppers plus Buhrer on the bench. BTW wasn't it Toovey that gave Liam a crack in the top grade?

The dog hardly changed the team before he left, two reasons for this 1) All the players were a couple of years younger (Obvious) and 2) We were mostly injury free. But he never blooded or dropped many players if they were inconsistant or out of form. He occasionally had to blood some when some of our players were on rep duty or injured, but no matter how well the replacements played they were sent back to the lower grades.

I see no reason why we can't win this years comp.

I also agree that if Horo can play consistant footy and cement a top grade spot then I think he more valuable thay Williams because of his speed, agility and ball playing skills.

Toovey will be fine providing we don't have too many injuries to our key players.

To be fair, I didn't reference Des Hasler at all. This is about Manly with Toovey as coach being ahead of the rest of the competition in ideas, culture building, ability, innovation and strategy.

Understand your point about the bench though, but could maybe Liam Foran fit that bill? I think Liam is an amazing player, who was unfairly criticised by some. The kid had played 10 first grade games (your most certainly right about Toovey giving him his first start "at Manly" in the top grade), yet us fans wanted him to play like a 50 game NRL veteran, and that just never is the case.

The bench could then look like:
14. Liam Foran
15. Bopper 1
16. Bopper 2
17. Jamie Buhrer

The Boppers would be a mix of George Rose, Richie Fa'aoso, Joe Galuvao, Brenton Lawrence & Vic Mauro.

Teams are getting really fast out wide now, and I really don't think we can afford to have Buhrer in the back line again this year.

And apologies guys, this is not a thread hijack, but my comments support the fact I think our roster depth is so outstanding, that we have many, many options with quality, that should place Tooves in a very, VERY good position to do well, so the pressure on him should be pretty grand.

I agree Liam did a great job filling in and I agree with most of what you say but I don't think we can have both Liam and JB on the bench. I'd have two or 3 props, or to big props and one player that can play both prop and 2nd row with JB. The best thing about this is that we seem to have plenty of forward depth and through the trials and the season I assume we'll see a few different combinations on the bench.

 

[The Wheel]

OK if Ryan is tipping us to win the comp then I am pretty certain we will have a dog of the year and miss the Top 8.

I am sorry but Ryan 'tips' whether it be Cuthbo on the wing, Tooves doesn't have the respect of players or any one of his million YARTS are generally always wrong.

Thanks Ryan for stuffing up our season before it even starts!

 

[Bradza]

All in all though, our options due to awesome depth are here now. Perry and his team of recruiters have done such an amazing job building what I think is one of Manly's strongest ever rosters (and balanced).

That's why I say Toovey would struggle NOT to do well.

Ryan, I agree with most of what you have said and commend the detailed explanations and supporting arguments. I do think it is interesting that you are (not too) subtly putting the pressure on Tooves to perform but have not mentioned him when congratulating the recruitment efforts. One would think that he and his assistants have had as much input as Dave Perry and Dave Warwick in the recruitment.

I think Horo can be the utility answer. What happens to Ferris is up to him - ie: he needs to keep improving to command a starting spot.

 

[Garts]

I think Wheel is correct somewhat, we are coming in for a small rebuild in the next 2 seasons due to the age of some of our players. Whilst Ryan has named an impressive list of players the fact is many of the new faces are unproven and we have no idea how they will perform when thrown into the NRL. Lets hope well!!!!

 

[WESTIE]

How many premierships did the breat BOZO deliver, in how many years, as a coach ?

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I also worry about our strength on the edges, a LOT of try's are scored there, if Wolfy was fully fit and played 26 games and Horhay continued to do well we'd be right BUT that's not going to happen. Who knows maybe we will unearth another Horhay...????

 

[bazeagle]

BOLLOCKS

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I knew you were going to say that.

 

[Matabele]

I expect we will win this year.

At least once or twice I hope.

The comp.

 

[Bearfax]

I also worry about our strength on the edges, a LOT of try's are scored there, if Wolfy was fully fit and played 26 games and Horhay continued to do well we'd be right BUT that's not going to happen. Who knows maybe we will unearth another Horhay...????

My understanding is that Gutherson knows how to get to the try line and with Brett S. holding full back Gutherson is likely to take on a wing position for a while. Fast, elusive, clever and tough. And he is a sharp shooter goal kicker

---

I also worry about our strength on the edges, a LOT of try's are scored there, if Wolfy was fully fit and played 26 games and Horhay continued to do well we'd be right BUT that's not going to happen. Who knows maybe we will unearth another Horhay...????

My understanding is that Gutherson knows how to get to the try line and with Brett S. holding full back Gutherson is likely to take on a wing position for a while. Fast, elusive, clever and tough. And he is a sharp shooter goal kicker

ps Gutherson was on the hit list for Australian Rugby Union 7's such is the cleverness of his play. He chose to stay at Manly.

 

[the mauler]

Well Ryan at least we can be sure that you will keep the pressure up on Tooves this season

For me, our depth is excellent apart from our wingers. Guys mentioned like Hiku & Gutherson are young & untested plus I don't think Astro Boy is best suited on the wing.

Astro Boys best suited in the Reggies for mine. I'd rather blood the youngsters, and see it as a backward step playing him.

 

[winnyason]

Look Boys I really think we have a champion team, the age of the pack is my only concern. The earlier post stated the likes of choc, gifty, king where all junior rep players the difference was bk giving blokes belief.
Look I don't like to look ahead simply put I can see another title in the next few years.
Given the role choc has played in this pack, I shudder his retirement, in saying this I think horo is a brillant pick up. What are parra thinking.

 

[The Wheel]

Given the role choc has played in this pack, I shudder his retirement, in saying this I think horo is a brillant pick up. What are parra thinking.

Maybe they were thinking about Folau but that ended in tears