Does toovs have tough road ahead

[winnyason]

We have made 7 finals in a row including 3 gfs and 2 title wins. A big worry is a Aging forward pack , gifty, choc, kite and king all over or 30. Toovs has bought young guns chew kam and Sao.
I don't like to use the word rebuild, I can just see some similarities between the squad of 92 -99 that where let play a season too many no doubt the Clubs financial position and forced merge with norths did not help rebuild. Our gun halfs should attract players to club
I am thinking 3 years down the line the pack is a worry, toovs has a big job there we are in better position than in 1999. This season have no dou t we will be there abouts.

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

We're a little bit thin on wingers this season that's my only concern.

 

[Rambo1987]

Look who we have signed, mostly young forwards. We will be fine.

 

[Bearfax]

Manly seems to have a coaching culture that brings the best out of players, somewhat like Melbourne. King, Kite, Watmough were nobodies years ago. Gifty was even just taken on to ensure they held onto Snake. Toovey has learned all the coaching tips passed down through generations of coaches from Arthurson down through Willey, Stanton, Fulton, Hasler et al. In his first year he did a remarkably good job given the things he was up against so I have no doubt that he can coach.

The young players coming through? As always some will fail, some will move to other clubs, but the culture that is Manly will live on and another formidable group of players will become the basis of Manly for the next champion side.

We have always worried when we lost champion players Fulton, Eadie, Reilly, Randall, Gibbs, Lyons, Menzies, Gartner, Kennedy even Toovey and Hasler when they called it a day. But new champions rose and Manly seems to have that knack of getting the best out of the next breed.

This group of young players is in fact the best group I've seen in Manly ranks for decades. There are a couple of great players in the making there.

Dont fear. Manly will be there.

 

[mbe]

Just a thought - maybe we needed a new coach in Toovey to bring us to the future.Hasler was living too much in the present and past with the players and with an aging squad he needed to bring in fresh young blood which he rarely did (Hoppa jnr excluded).Toovey and company seem to have seen the problem and brought in all the young players.It may take a season or two for these young players to develop but they definitely look like our future.Exciting times ahead.

 

[Captain Moondog]

The pressure will be off Tooves somewhat this season. He was thrown in at the deep end last year and performed creditably considering the pressure he was placed under in the off season from Hell. Reaching the preliminary final was a huge result in his rookie year. No major dramas so far this season, no overseas trip, Andrew Johns assisting and by all accounts the boys are training the house down. I reckon he'll be rubbing his hands together waiting for kickoff...

 

[bones]

It's actually 8 finals series in a row.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Manly seems to have a coaching culture that brings the best out of players, somewhat like Melbourne. King, Kite, Watmough were nobodies years ago. Gifty was even just taken on to ensure they held onto Snake.

The rest of your post makes sense but not this part about 'nobodies'. Watmough was a Junior Kangaroo who was identified early as a potential star, and Kite was a marquee signing for Manly as a current Origin player and obvious up-and-comer. King also showed ability and was playing first grade from an early age. Matt Ballin was also a Junior Kangaroo, by the way.

 

[Hamster Huey]

We have made 7 finals in a row including 3 gfs and 2 title wins. A big worry is a Aging forward pack , gifty, choc, kite and king all over or 30. Toovs has bought young guns chew kam and Sao.
I don't like to use the word rebuild, I can just see some similarities between the squad of 92 -99 that where let play a season too many no doubt the Clubs financial position and forced merge with norths did not help rebuild. Our gun halfs should attract players to club
I am thinking 3 years down the line the pack is a worry, toovs has a big job there we are in better position than in 1999. This season have no dou t we will be there abouts.

We've been 'rebuilding' from success since 2007. Des and Crusher got the ball rolling with a constant changeover of 5-6 NRL players per year from that time, so Tooves is well versed on what is working.

The only player we've kept in a key role for more than 5 years is Snake out the back. Our 6,7 and 9 have changed over and with the success of the recruitment of the young blood into the halves, we'll now see the most stable period through the spine than we are used to. Tooves sees this and is now building the mobile forward strength and depth, keeping the squad fresh with enthusiasm.

Other clubs desperate grabs for quick success has seen more obvious rebuild years (Dogs twice in recent seasons) across their squad, as opposed to a patient, constant cycle of players which appears to be a method that Manly has found sustained success under.

 

[Mals]

We have made 7 finals in a row including 3 gfs and 2 title wins. A big worry is a Aging forward pack , gifty, choc, kite and king all over or 30. Toovs has bought young guns chew kam and Sao.

Choc will turn 30 later this year & Gifty the year after so not as bad as you are making out.

 

[Darren]

Hard one but guys get older etc but it's how you wisely bring in new recruits, young signings that will keep you going ahead. No club will be top forever now (Broncos) but most like Sharks, Knights, Raiders will slowly rise up.

 

[Hamster Huey]

Hard one but guys get older etc but it's how you wisely bring in new recruits, young signings that will keep you going ahead. No club will be top forever now (Broncos) but most like Sharks, Knights, Raiders will slowly rise up.

I really like what Flanagan is doing with the Sharks recruitment and he's getting the most out of the squads he can. Still a classy half off definite Top 4, but a dangerous side week in, week out.

Not sold on the Raiders with their current off-field setup, particularly the coaching squad.

Newcastle look to be struggling to get new, young talent at the club and are relying too much on career backend recruits or journeymen, without the star players to make it work (a'la Melbourne).

 

[The Wheel]

IMO 2013 is about rebuilding the similar way the Swans have done over the last few years - rebuild while still being competitive. It will be an interesting year, we may drop back a peg or two but if some of these young guys step up to the mark similar to what DCE and Foran in 2011 we should be there when the whips are cracking in late September.

 

[Bearfax]

Manly seems to have a coaching culture that brings the best out of players, somewhat like Melbourne. King, Kite, Watmough were nobodies years ago. Gifty was even just taken on to ensure they held onto Snake.

The rest of your post makes sense but not this part about 'nobodies'. Watmough was a Junior Kangaroo who was identified early as a potential star, and Kite was a marquee signing for Manly as a current Origin player and obvious up-and-comer. King also showed ability and was playing first grade from an early age. Matt Ballin was also a Junior Kangaroo, by the way.

My intent was not to besmirch these players but rather to get the issue in context. The players coming through are 'nobodies' at this stage despite the great potential they have. Champions dont just happen. They develop from potentially gifted nobodies. And many gifted junior rep players vanish soon after reaching adult grades. Watmough, King and even Kite could easily have vanished from the game, even despite their potential. In a few years we may well be lauding the greatness of Trbojevic, Chee-Kam, Gutherson etc and we may very well be fearing their loss from a future champion side. Or those names may disappear, never having reached the next stage.

 

[Ryan]

IMO 2013 is about rebuilding the similar way the Swans have done over the last few years - rebuild while still being competitive. It will be an interesting year, we may drop back a peg or two but if some of these young guys step up to the mark similar to what DCE and Foran in 2011 we should be there when the whips are cracking in late September.

Harsh imo. When you break our squad down, position by position, I would consider each, including depth, one of, if not THE best in the league today.

Fullback
Brett Stewart, Ben Farrar, Jacob Gagan, Peta Hiku, Clinton Gutherson

Wing
David Williams, Ben Farrar, George Taufua, Peta Hiku

Centre
Steve Matai, Jamie Lyon, Ben Farrar, Peta Hiku, Dylan Strickland, Dean Mcglinchy, Justin Horo, Jamie Buhrer

Halves
Daly Cherry-Evans, Liam Foran, Kieran Foran, Dane Chisholm, Dominic Nasso

Hooker
Matt Ballin, Liam Higgins, Jamie Buhrer, Dominic Nasso

Prop
Steve Tavita, Jason King, Brent Kite, George Rose, Richie Fa'aso, Brenton Lawrence, Vic Mauro, Justin Lemalu, Ligi Sao, Joe Galuvao, Magnus Stromquist, James Cunningham (I think), David Gower

Backrow / Lock
Jesse Sene-Lefao, Michael Chee Kam, Anthony Watmough, Glenn Stewart, Justin Horo, Jamie Buhrer, Joe Galuvao, Ben Musolino, Dean Mcglinchy, Nick Skinner, Jake Trbojevic, James Hasson, Joe Galuvao

and I'm SURE I have left out a few.

There is no way that is a rebuilding squad, and I'd almost call it pretty harsh on the playing squad to do so. Do not under estimate, nor have low expectation with these guys - they deserve much, much more.

In my opinion, we should be battling for a top 2-3 finish (my hope is a minor premiership).

There is a reason people are lowering their expectation, and in my opinion, it is to provide "the excuse" in the unlikely event that we fail. Not me though. Toovey again has an all star squad in my books (maybe even better than last year counting depth) than last season. He'd struggle NOT to do well with our powerhouse squad.

I have very lofty expectations. I also believe it will be the coach that will drive our success or downfall, so personally, I'm judging 2013's success "predominantly" on Toovey's shoulders as head coach.

 

[Darren]

It's a great squad with lots of fresh faces and heaps of depth. Great thing is injuries won't kill us as much with some great back up!!

 

[eagles2win]

An absolute last resort for Jamie Bhurer to play centre.

 

[Ryan]

An absolute last resort for Jamie Bhurer to play centre.

Agreed. But Tooves does put him there.

 

[swoop]

An absolute last resort for Jamie Bhurer to play centre.

Agreed. But Tooves does put him there.

No-one carries a centre or winger on the bench so Tooves IS using him there as a last resort, much the same as the great "Beaver" did. Who else would you guys suggest?

 

[manlyfan76]

I don't like it when a winger or FB goes off injured and we move the centre to wing / winger to fb and a forward to centre. I'd leave the centre because they can direct the makeshift winger and anticipate having to cover them. Last year we ended with ppl unnecessarily out of position and as good as Lyon and Matai are in their positions they get lost on the wing.