[Resurrected] DCE is the worst halfback in the NRL

[Bearfax]

Comparing DCE with Luai, based on the SOOs and the Penrith -Manly games is somewhat unfair. How well did Luai play in the SOO.? Nothing worthwhile talking about. But then he was in a side down a player and in a side being thumped. Not his fault. If the team as a whole cant meet the challenge for whatever reason, naturally the perceived performance of players is down in that side.

Now go to the Penrith-Manly match. Penrith are Premiers and a well balanced and structured side. Players in that side are going to tend to look better than their respective opposites because they have the backing of a better functioning side. Same with any player. DCE was not as impressive in this game (though note that on this site many still gave him points in the 3,2,1 assessments), but is that so surprising when your team is missing 59 tackles, 18 ineffective tackles. If you're playing with the best side, you shine brighter.

As for other half backs getting over DCE, that's conjectural based on how you personally read the game. Halves dont vie against other halves. They are there to set their teams play and what I personally see of DCE is he does that effectively. Now that's an opinion, but its one shared by the recognised experts in the game, otherwise why is he SOO Qld captain and regularly the test half.

Manly dont look like they are functioning like a well oiled team, I agree. But how is that DCE's fault? Yes he is captain and a good one who is prepared, as he did with Schuster, to lay the cards on the table. Leaders cant always seem to be good guys. Ruthless decisions have to be made. Jake is a lovely soul and yes he talks to the players and inspires by his personal performances. But leaders cant always be good guys. They are captains to maintain authority, to stand up for the players but also let them know when they aren't pulling their weight. Rugby League is a business, and hard decisions sometimes have to be made. I'm not sure Jake can do that. Could be wrong, and would love to be proved wrong, but nice guys are great as buddies and friends, but that step up to leadership requires a degree of ruthlessness on occasions

 

[swoop]

As most of you know I was a critic of DCE which is why I started this thread but I've got to give credit where credits due. DCE has been playing to his pontential and has been the best no7 in the NRL.

He used to always shine before SOO and then look average playing regular games but the last few years the majority of his games has been second to none.

 

[mave]

To me it's pretty simple.

We have been trying to copy the Melbourne system of having a "big 3" or "big 4", and filling the rest of the squad with cheapies, youngsters and journeymen.

Problem is that our systems are clearly nowhere near as polished as what Bellamy can provide to his cheapies, youngsters and journeymen.

We need to come up with a different theory, with a much better balanced squad.

 

[jbb/james]

Comparing DCE with Luai, based on the SOOs and the Penrith -Manly games is somewhat unfair. How well did Luai play in the SOO.? Nothing worthwhile talking about. But then he was in a side down a player and in a side being thumped. Not his fault. If the team as a whole cant meet the challenge for whatever reason, naturally the perceived performance of players is down in that side.

Now go to the Penrith-Manly match. Penrith are Premiers and a well balanced and structured side. Players in that side are going to tend to look better than their respective opposites because they have the backing of a better functioning side. Same with any player. DCE was not as impressive in this game (though note that on this site many still gave him points in the 3,2,1 assessments), but is that so surprising when your team is missing 59 tackles, 18 ineffective tackles. If you're playing with the best side, you shine brighter.

As for other half backs getting over DCE, that's conjectural based on how you personally read the game. Halves dont vie against other halves. They are there to set their teams play and what I personally see of DCE is he does that effectively. Now that's an opinion, but its one shared by the recognised experts in the game, otherwise why is he SOO Qld captain and regularly the test half.

Manly dont look like they are functioning like a well oiled team, I agree. But how is that DCE's fault? Yes he is captain and a good one who is prepared, as he did with Schuster, to lay the cards on the table. Leaders cant always seem to be good guys. Ruthless decisions have to be made. Jake is a lovely soul and yes he talks to the players and inspires by his personal performances. But leaders cant always be good guys. They are captains to maintain authority, to stand up for the players but also let them know when they aren't pulling their weight. Rugby League is a business, and hard decisions sometimes have to be made. I'm not sure Jake can do that. Could be wrong, and would love to be proved wrong, but nice guys are great as buddies and friends, but that step up to leadership requires a degree of ruthlessness on occasions

nothing wrong with rating last weeks game, maybe its harsh to rate halves but i dare say Manly have been in all the contests this season but as it is in most games halves usually step up , the regularity of that being DCE, I will leave that to the perspective,

The best halves have always been ultra competitive with other halves. The tommy v mortimer being an extreme example . Good hookers hate good hookers, good props hate good props, its part of competitive sport so i believe halves always look to outpoint there opponents but its a bit more subtle . Some pondering here

I say this often, DCE good player, great……not so
Can Manly build a team around him. Couldnt at 26, 30 and no way its happening at 36 unless the dude seriously evolves his game and lickety split. . Balls in his court and the mother just got aced by smugly LUI , still had his racquet cover on

So , Age or attitude. Manly stalwart gets BOD,
Sunday just seemed a bit past his bedtime .

He isnt the only problem by far but he is the oiled machine. 10 plus years at 7, injury free, He is the machine that all else flows from and we have a sideways model , nice machine , needs little oil , is maintenance free , but the results are sketchy

It is a workplace. And hosing down schuster in public. Would that have worked in your workplace. Would that have built Team or had factions unhappy with how there mate was treated. Its a very matey workplace. The Keith Tittmus details highlights how Manly should probably act, be ruthless if need be , but parading it as an excuse lacks leadership fullstop.

Dont worry im no seibs fan for it either. Biggest blunder so far for mine . Flog him on the paddock, have the talk, drop him, explore contract,

On reflection, schuster wouldn't have saved this team, last thing we need is another enigma. And we are still just…….the same, weirdo footy side

 

[Bearfax]

nothing wrong with rating last weeks game, maybe its harsh to rate halves but i dare say Manly have been in all the contests this season but as it is in most games halves usually step up , the regularity of that being DCE, I will leave that to the perspective,

The best halves have always been ultra competitive with other halves. The tommy v mortimer being an extreme example . Good hookers hate good hookers, good props hate good props, its part of competitive sport so i believe halves always look to outpoint there opponents but its a bit more subtle . Some pondering here

I say this often, DCE good player, great……not so
Can Manly build a team around him. Couldnt at 26, 30 and no way its happening at 36 unless the dude seriously evolves his game and lickety split. . Balls in his court and the mother just got aced by smugly LUI , still had his racquet cover on

So , Age or attitude. Manly stalwart gets BOD,
Sunday just seemed a bit past his bedtime .

He isnt the only problem by far but he is the oiled machine. 10 plus years at 7, injury free, He is the machine that all else flows from and we have a sideways model , nice machine , needs little oil , is maintenance free , but the results are sketchy

It is a workplace. And hosing down schuster in public. Would that have worked in your workplace. Would that have built Team or had factions unhappy with how there mate was treated. Its a very matey workplace. The Keith Tittmus details highlights how Manly should probably act, be ruthless if need be , but parading it as an excuse lacks leadership fullstop.

Dont worry im no seibs fan for it either. Biggest blunder so far for mine . Flog him on the paddock, have the talk, drop him, explore contract,

On reflection, schuster wouldn't have saved this team, last thing we need is another enigma. And we are still just…….the same, weirdo footy side

James you mentioned about building a team around a top half. Thing is Manly have not been able to do that since 2015, and if the team isn't up to par, no player is going to lift them out of the morass. I pointed out Thurston in the 2008-2011 period when the Cows were sitting at the bottom of the comp. The only reason they picked up wasn't because of Thurston, it was because they managed, to as you say, build a decent team around him. That hasn't happened for a long while at Manly. This year has promise, but I suspect only to get into the finals. A little more building is required. Thurston became great because he had great supports. Cleary has been great because he has great supports. Put DCE in one of those teams and he would be great.

 

[jbb/james]

I agree with what you say, but DCE is no thurston. Thurston was a leader waiting for a team. DCE is waiting for a leader. Even last week with a few sets to go DCE did his disappearing homer routine on 5 th and 6 th when the game was getting very desperate . Thurston dyed trying.

thurstons team didnt have turbo salaries as well . to buy classy players we need to offload classy contracts . DCE at 850 is finally saleable but tom on 1. Something with his history, very difficult to sell

The cowboys junior nursery is on show every origin when the roll out the junior clubs. There ability to produce Morgan and glanville in key spine positions for cheap was key and rarely replicated. Lachlan coote, very astute purchase at fullback . The cowboys build up to the GF was a whole of club effort that took roots years earlier. This is my main gripe. We are not planting new seeds just pruning the same old bush. Thurstons and cooper were almost lyons and beaver like, while we cry for DCE and oku to get in sync

I just see DCE as an add to an existing team rather than someone to build around. Add him to existing structures so he can add x factor on 3 rd oarty deals . Its a no brainer, probably wins a comp, especially if the price is right., but asking or needing him to steer the ship, be the steady factor and he falls to bits and we get used to finishing in the teens

 

[Bearfax]

I agree with what you say, but DCE is no thurston. Thurston was a leader waiting for a team. DCE is waiting for a leader. Even last week with a few sets to go DCE did his disappearing homer routine on 5 th and 6 th when the game was getting very desperate . Thurston dyed trying.

thurstons team didnt have turbo salaries as well . to buy classy players we need to offload classy contracts . DCE at 850 is finally saleable but tom on 1. Something with his history, very difficult to sell

The cowboys junior nursery is on show every origin when the roll out the junior clubs. There ability to produce Morgan and glanville in key spine positions for cheap was key and rarely replicated. Lachlan coote, very astute purchase at fullback . The cowboys build up to the GF was a whole of club effort that took roots years earlier. This is my main gripe. We are not planting new seeds just pruning the same old bush. Thurstons and cooper were almost lyons and beaver like, while we cry for DCE and oku to get in sync

I just see DCE as an add to an existing team rather than someone to build around. Add him to existing structures so he can add x factor on 3 rd oarty deals . Its a no brainer, probably wins a comp, especially if the price is right., but asking or needing him to steer the ship, be the steady factor and he falls to bits and we get used to finishing in the teens

I guess we will disagree on some points here. For me Thurston was a very different type of player. Much more an individualist and together with Bowen he caused mayhem. Bt he also had his detrac6tors throughout his career. We look back and admire the totality of his performances, but he had some very lean years. Easy to forget the times he struggled. For mine, I really feel DCE would be a champion with a top side. For mine he and Toovey are the standout half backs we have had. Very different. Toovey had quaities DCE doesnt have but then DCE has qualities Toovey didnt have. Could say the say thing of Thurston. For example Thurston played in one of the great Queensland sides with a backline including Slater, Inglis, Hodges, Cronk, just to name a few. The present QLD side doesn't have that range of stars...yet especially with Munster out. Yet DCE leads them to victory in 2013 and though NSW was a one down for the last match, the QLD side could have been complacent but didn't. DCE was captain. And who was rated Man of the Match. Daly Cherry Evans. I rate DCE one of the best. Different to Cronk, Thurston, Toovey, all Australian test stars.

 

[jbb/james]

I guess we will disagree on some points here. For me Thurston was a very different type of player. Much more an individualist and together with Bowen he caused mayhem. Bt he also had his detrac6tors throughout his career. We look back and admire the totality of his performances, but he had some very lean years. Easy to forget the times he struggled. For mine, I really feel DCE would be a champion with a top side. For mine he and Toovey are the standout half backs we have had. Very different. Toovey had quaities DCE doesnt have but then DCE has qualities Toovey didnt have. Could say the say thing of Thurston. For example Thurston played in one of the great Queensland sides with a backline including Slater, Inglis, Hodges, Cronk, just to name a few. The present QLD side doesn't have that range of stars...yet especially with Munster out. Yet DCE leads them to victory in 2013 and though NSW was a one down for the last match, the QLD side could have been complacent but didn't. DCE was captain. And who was rated Man of the Match. Daly Cherry Evans. I rate DCE one of the best. Different to Cronk, Thurston, Toovey, all Australian test stars.

By the time the cows got to the GF thurston was a complete player. As you say though. It wasnt always that way. He grew from the individualist to the team player and captain . Its exactly the same journey we hope dce makes

Thurston just started from a lowers skill base

Dce game is almost identical to 5 years ago which physically is impressive for an old dog, but if he is the man to touch the ball most often we need him to grow his game and footy IQ because we dont meet the standard of the top teams in this area

Between he and brooks its why they are paid

 

[Bearfax]

By the time the cows got to the GF thurston was a complete player. As you say though. It wasnt always that way. He grew from the individualist to the team player and captain . Its exactly the same journey we hope dce makes

Thurston just started from a lowers skill base

Dce game is almost identical to 5 years ago which physically is impressive for an old dog, but if he is the man to touch the ball most often we need him to grow his game and footy IQ because we dont meet the standard of the top teams in this area

Between he and brooks its why they are paid

The point I was making is that Thurston became great because the team he had around him got better and became top tier. DCE started with a top tier side but in the past 8-9 years he's had a team that's gone downhill in quality. In 2018 when the quality of the Cows dropped, Thurston's performance dropped and he retired.

I would suggest this is the primary reason DCE is now under rated, even by supporters. In fact DCE is, in my opinion, a far more complete player now, with well developed skills especially with the boot, than he was when considered the best half in 2014 and Rookie of the Year in 2011. He achieved those awards through the backing of a great side. The side he has had in almost the past decade has been bottom 8 in quality.

When he has a quality side around him such as in tests and SOOs you see the masterful qualities he has...because he has a top side in support like Thurston had in his later career. Its not so much that he ups his tempo in those matches. Its primarily because he has good stock around him in tests and SOOs, unlike at Manly.

Think Brooks at Wests. Cliffy at Norths, any player coming from a lower tier team and suddenly with great players around them. You'll find so often they are clever but under appreciated at those first clubs, and suddenly they blossom in a top tier side.. Talau is a recent example. The best players usually look good in the best sides. The fact DCE gets selected from a bottom 8 side says something about his quality don't you think?

Neither you nor I selected him for rep duties. Those who are experienced in the game make those decisions. That alone says something. Put him at Penrith or Melbourne and he'd be a standout star. So much depends on the team around you.

 

[jbb/james]

The point I was making is that Thurston became great because the team he had around him got better and became top tier. DCE started with a top tier side but in the past 8-9 years he's had a team that's gone downhill in quality. In 2018 when the quality of the Cows dropped, Thurston's performance dropped and he retired.

I would suggest this is the primary reason DCE is now under rated, even by supporters. In fact DCE is, in my opinion, a far more complete player now, with well developed skills especially with the boot, than he was when considered the best half in 2014 and Rookie of the Year in 2011. He achieved those awards through the backing of a great side. The side he has had in almost the past decade has been bottom 8 in quality.

When he has a quality side around him such as in tests and SOOs you see the masterful qualities he has...because he has a top side in support like Thurston had in his later career. Its not so much that he ups his tempo in those matches. Its primarily because he has good stock around him in tests and SOOs, unlike at Manly.

Think Brooks at Wests. Cliffy at Norths, any player coming from a lower tier team and suddenly with great players around them. You'll find so often they are clever but under appreciated at those first clubs, and suddenly they blossom in a top tier side.. Talau is a recent example. The best players usually look good in the best sides. The fact DCE gets selected from a bottom 8 side says something about his quality don't you think?

Neither you nor I selected him for rep duties. Those who are experienced in the game make those decisions. That alone says something. Put him at Penrith or Melbourne and he'd be a standout star. So much depends on the team around you.it makes sense as its consistent with our overall difference.. that kind of comforting

But I love this thurston cows topic. All my inlaws are mad cows and we debated this very topic for a decade. I admit i had to eat some humble pie .

The thurston/dce perspective or the switcheroo

I see thurston who grew to be a leader, and would have led the tigpies, not to success, but to an early grave, fearless ball runner, exponent of pressure, repeat sets, great short kicking game who had a sense of timing for the big moments, carried the team on his back. Pretty sure they changed rules because he got hammered so much.

Its rumoured he had 6 lung transplants and donated enough rib cartlidge to start a race if super women

I see DCE as a highly competitive, skillful player who would tread water all day for the team but wont swim in the deepend,where the big boys play has yet to mature and his big game moments are becoming less frequent

you seem to believe we can build a team around him in the next 18 months I do not.

Are you ignoring the fact that without offloading one of our top 3, new recruits to compliment the complete package will be lean and we are short backrowers first anyway so where does the improvement come from.

It seems to me we are learning to compete but suffer icing the critical moments on a good day. We are not known for our mental aptitude or patience

Tom, koula, lehi, brooks, arthur, gordon, frog simpkins and dce all signed for next year so how do we change the style. Yes forward dominance helps but on the weekend he went missing when we had the ascendency early .

When the forwards are doing the job you cant wait until the halfback is in the mood

Look maybe your a week by week footy guy. Thats cool but if we are going to rebuild manly its a tear down job otherwise its mutton dressed up as lamb. Results tell a sad perspective

How would you fix it ?

Also i dont think DCE is a bad footy player but he is the manly system and its soft. Tom will harden us a bit but we only ask polite question in attack or the outrageous.

Naggy, gritty, probing , relentless, All of manlys best teams have been built on that with flair added, All of everyones best teams are built on it

I think this team has lived off being able to score big points quickly
Now teams let us roll knowing we will let more in even more quickly
But a prop should fix that

 

[jbb/james]

The point I was making is that Thurston became great because the team he had around him got better and became top tier. DCE started with a top tier side but in the past 8-9 years he's had a team that's gone downhill in quality. In 2018 when the quality of the Cows dropped, Thurston's performance dropped and he retired.

I would suggest this is the primary reason DCE is now under rated, even by supporters. In fact DCE is, in my opinion, a far more complete player now, with well developed skills especially with the boot, than he was when considered the best half in 2014 and Rookie of the Year in 2011. He achieved those awards through the backing of a great side. The side he has had in almost the past decade has been bottom 8 in quality.

When he has a quality side around him such as in tests and SOOs you see the masterful qualities he has...because he has a top side in support like Thurston had in his later career. Its not so much that he ups his tempo in those matches. Its primarily because he has good stock around him in tests and SOOs, unlike at Manly.

Think Brooks at Wests. Cliffy at Norths, any player coming from a lower tier team and suddenly with great players around them. You'll find so often they are clever but under appreciated at those first clubs, and suddenly they blossom in a top tier side.. Talau is a recent example. The best players usually look good in the best sides. The fact DCE gets selected from a bottom 8 side says something about his quality don't you think?

Neither you nor I selected him for rep duties. Those who are experienced in the game make those decisions. That alone says something. Put him at Penrith or Melbourne and he'd be a standout star. So much depends on the team around you.

Also buddy, im more inclined to say Thurston helped develop Morgan as a player rather than the other way around. However i do accept correlation in the outcomes for both

Hard to say for sure as morgan got hurt

 

[Mal Cochrane]

The point I was making is that Thurston became great because the team he had around him got better and became top tier. DCE started with a top tier side but in the past 8-9 years he's had a team that's gone downhill in quality. In 2018 when the quality of the Cows dropped, Thurston's performance dropped and he retired.

I would suggest this is the primary reason DCE is now under rated, even by supporters. In fact DCE is, in my opinion, a far more complete player now, with well developed skills especially with the boot, than he was when considered the best half in 2014 and Rookie of the Year in 2011. He achieved those awards through the backing of a great side. The side he has had in almost the past decade has been bottom 8 in quality.

When he has a quality side around him such as in tests and SOOs you see the masterful qualities he has...because he has a top side in support like Thurston had in his later career. Its not so much that he ups his tempo in those matches. Its primarily because he has good stock around him in tests and SOOs, unlike at Manly.

Think Brooks at Wests. Cliffy at Norths, any player coming from a lower tier team and suddenly with great players around them. You'll find so often they are clever but under appreciated at those first clubs, and suddenly they blossom in a top tier side.. Talau is a recent example. The best players usually look good in the best sides. The fact DCE gets selected from a bottom 8 side says something about his quality don't you think?

Neither you nor I selected him for rep duties. Those who are experienced in the game make those decisions. That alone says something. Put him at Penrith or Melbourne and he'd be a standout star. So much depends on the team around you.

A far more complete player, and particularly with the boot?
I don't subscribe to the dce being the worst half back theory, but he has very little game management and mainly looks great when he rolls the dice, but when it's a crap throw at the wrong time it is costly.

Field goals, 40/20's he is good for, general play kicking and repeat sets, not so much.

Remember the cowboys game at brookie a year or 2 ago, when cows came back from a 20+ deficit in the last 15 minutes of the game to trail by 2. Everything they were doing was freaky and scoring points. Last minute of the game, manly have the ball near half way, dce gets put into a gap... and kicks it. Nothing was really on, it went straight to a cowboys player in open space, it was dce rolling the dice instead of closing the game down.
That has long been the issue, game management.

 

[BOZO]

The Worst Half Back in the NRL ??? You make up your own mind
You either look all the stats facts
Or Listen to all the fools

• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Ken Arthurson Rookie of The Year: 2011
• Dally M Rookie of The Year: 2011
• RLIF Halfback of The Year: 2011, 2013
• RLPA Rookie of The Year: 2011
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Gordon Willoughby Medal – Members Player of The Year: 2013, 2018, 2020
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Players' Player: 2013
• Clive Churchill Medal: 2013
• Dally M Halfback of The Year: 2014
• Spirit of ANZAC Medal: 2015
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Roy Bull Best and Fairest: 2017, 2020, 2023
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Captain: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Steve Menzies Medal – Play of the Year: 2019 (Game-winning field goal in golden point win over Melbourne Storm Rd19)
• Queensland Maroons Captain: 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023
• Australia Kangaroos Vice-Captain: 2019

Club

• 2011 NRL Grand Final Winners

Representative

• 2013 State of Origin series Winners
• 2013 World Cup Winners
• 2015 State of Origin series Winners
• 2020 State of Origin series Winners
• 2022 State of Origin series Winners
• 2023 State of Origin series Winners
  
  

 

[KaZa]

The Worst Half Back in the NRL ??? You make up your own mind
You either look all the stats facts
Or Listen to all the fools

• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Ken Arthurson Rookie of The Year: 2011
• Dally M Rookie of The Year: 2011
• RLIF Halfback of The Year: 2011, 2013
• RLPA Rookie of The Year: 2011
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Gordon Willoughby Medal – Members Player of The Year: 2013, 2018, 2020
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Players' Player: 2013
• Clive Churchill Medal: 2013
• Dally M Halfback of The Year: 2014
• Spirit of ANZAC Medal: 2015
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Roy Bull Best and Fairest: 2017, 2020, 2023
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Captain: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023
• Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles Steve Menzies Medal – Play of the Year: 2019 (Game-winning field goal in golden point win over Melbourne Storm Rd19)
• Queensland Maroons Captain: 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023
• Australia Kangaroos Vice-Captain: 2019

Club

• 2011 NRL Grand Final Winners

Representative

• 2013 State of Origin series Winners
• 2013 World Cup Winners
• 2015 State of Origin series Winners
• 2020 State of Origin series Winners
• 2022 State of Origin series Winners
• 2023 State of Origin series Winners
  View attachment 27333

Alot of his accomplishments are 10 years ago! When he was around players like the Stewarts Lyon Matai Foran carried him.

We have achieved very few finals appearances (ones that were on the back of Tom). I dont care what he does for Qld. Irrelevant. We dont pay him to win football managers for another state. Hes not the worst.. thats a gross overstatement. However, value for money has not been great for us imo. The balance of what he paid to the players we could bring in hurt our squad. The same way the Turbos are now.

Our cap has been very poorly managed for a long time. We wont see improvement till Penn leaves however thats an argument for another day.

 

[Bearfax]

Fortunately many of you guys aren't selectors. Some have even been saying Foran instead of DCE. I reiterate, a player has to have top cattle around him to shine. Thurston did, Cronk did, Toovey did, Steve Mortimer did, Sterling did, Cleary did. Despite being in a top tier side, Pearse who was considered a star was dumped, because even at that level he was not considered good enough for the top tier side.

Now the question I ask you all is how many half backs can you name coming from a side usually in the bottom half of the comp, and yet consistently selected for rep honours. I'm sure there are one or two in history, but this speaks for itself. Top halves are touted as the best in top sides, yet DCE is being selected despite Manly's low rating. If he's not a champion player, how on earth is he being selected from a bottom 8 side. It rarely happens. That alone speaks for how good this fellow is.

 

[Seagles68]

The point I was making is that Thurston became great because the team he had around him got better and became top tier. DCE started with a top tier side but in the past 8-9 years he's had a team that's gone downhill in quality. In 2018 when the quality of the Cows dropped, Thurston's performance dropped and he retired.

I would suggest this is the primary reason DCE is now under rated, even by supporters. In fact DCE is, in my opinion, a far more complete player now, with well developed skills especially with the boot, than he was when considered the best half in 2014 and Rookie of the Year in 2011. He achieved those awards through the backing of a great side. The side he has had in almost the past decade has been bottom 8 in quality.

When he has a quality side around him such as in tests and SOOs you see the masterful qualities he has...because he has a top side in support like Thurston had in his later career. Its not so much that he ups his tempo in those matches. Its primarily because he has good stock around him in tests and SOOs, unlike at Manly.

Think Brooks at Wests. Cliffy at Norths, any player coming from a lower tier team and suddenly with great players around them. You'll find so often they are clever but under appreciated at those first clubs, and suddenly they blossom in a top tier side.. Talau is a recent example. The best players usually look good in the best sides. The fact DCE gets selected from a bottom 8 side says something about his quality don't you think?

Neither you nor I selected him for rep duties. Those who are experienced in the game make those decisions. That alone says something. Put him at Penrith or Melbourne and he'd be a standout star. So much depends on the team around you.

Love ya work Bear!

 

[Seagles68]

But I love this thurston cows topic. All my inlaws are mad cows and we debated this very topic for a decade. I admit i had to eat some humble pie .

The thurston/dce perspective or the switcheroo

I see thurston who grew to be a leader, and would have led the tigpies, not to success, but to an early grave, fearless ball runner, exponent of pressure, repeat sets, great short kicking game who had a sense of timing for the big moments, carried the team on his back. Pretty sure they changed rules because he got hammered so much.

Its rumoured he had 6 lung transplants and donated enough rib cartlidge to start a race if super women

I see DCE as a highly competitive, skillful player who would tread water all day for the team but wont swim in the deepend,where the big boys play has yet to mature and his big game moments are becoming less frequent

you seem to believe we can build a team around him in the next 18 months I do not.

Are you ignoring the fact that without offloading one of our top 3, new recruits to compliment the complete package will be lean and we are short backrowers first anyway so where does the improvement come from.

It seems to me we are learning to compete but suffer icing the critical moments on a good day. We are not known for our mental aptitude or patience

Tom, koula, lehi, brooks, arthur, gordon, frog simpkins and dce all signed for next year so how do we change the style. Yes forward dominance helps but on the weekend he went missing when we had the ascendency early .

When the forwards are doing the job you cant wait until the halfback is in the mood

Look maybe your a week by week footy guy. Thats cool but if we are going to rebuild manly its a tear down job otherwise its mutton dressed up as lamb. Results tell a sad perspective

How would you fix it ?

Also i dont think DCE is a bad footy player but he is the manly system and its soft. Tom will harden us a bit but we only ask polite question in attack or the outrageous.

Naggy, gritty, probing , relentless, All of manlys best teams have been built on that with flair added, All of everyones best teams are built on it

I think this team has lived off being able to score big points quickly
Now teams let us roll knowing we will let more in even more quickly
But a prop should fix that

And love ya work JBB!

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Fortunately many of you guys aren't selectors. Some have even been saying Foran instead of DCE.

It's funny, Bearfax: I was always in the Foran over DCE camp, and I still am. They both have the one Manly premiership and have both excelled in the international game. Foran has obviously never played Origin, but if was eligible, he could have done NSW the world of good. DCE somehow went from a Queensland pariah to the Queensland captain, and he now plays his best football for his state.

DCE's durability is remarkable, and he will finish up as a one-club player. His resilience - the ability to keep playing his game, year after year - is admirable. He's the Manly captain. He speaks well, he represents the club well. He is, in short, "an ornament to the game".

But I'd still take Foran any day of the week. I guess it's just that different people, different fans, respond to different personalities in different ways. I love the way Foran plays the game, and have since he first debuted. Even after he left us for the Eels, I couldn't hate him. When his mental health deteriorated and his career began to implode, I still wanted him to do well. I wanted him to come home, and eventually he did. And even that was never meant to last.

As for DCE, while he'll always have my admiration and respect, as well as my support as the Manly captain, somehow I've never completely warmed to the bloke. I can't put my finger on it, but something has always prevented me from giving him the same unconditional love I've got for players like Foran, Beaver, Steve Matai, Cliffy, Jamie Lyon, Phil Blake (yes, even Phil Blake), and Jake.

It's probably not very fair of me, especially given Cherry's contribution to the club, but it is what it is.

 

[Seagles68]

Y

A far more complete player, and particularly with the boot?
I don't subscribe to the dce being the worst half back theory, but he has very little game management and mainly looks great when he rolls the dice, but when it's a crap throw at the wrong time it is costly.

Field goals, 40/20's he is good for, general play kicking and repeat sets, not so much.

Remember the cowboys game at brookie a year or 2 ago, when cows came back from a 20+ deficit in the last 15 minutes of the game to trail by 2. Everything they were doing was freaky and scoring points. Last minute of the game, manly have the ball near half way, dce gets put into a gap... and kicks it. Nothing was really on, it went straight to a cowboys player in open space, it was dce rolling the dice instead of closing the game down.
That has long been the issue, game management.

Yes I do Mal, I was there and I spent a lot of money in therapy to forget it. Thanks a lot!

 

[Seagles68]

It's funny, Bearfax: I was always in the Foran over DCE camp, and I still am. They both have the one Manly premiership and have both excelled in the international game. Foran has obviously never played Origin, but if was eligible, he could have done NSW the world of good. DCE somehow went from a Queensland pariah to the Queensland captain, and he now plays his best football for his state.

DCE's durability is remarkable, and he will finish up as a one-club player. His resilience - the ability to keep playing his game, year after year - is admirable. He's the Manly captain. He speaks well, he represents the club well. He is, in short, "an ornament to the game".

But I'd still take Foran any day of the week. I guess it's just that different people, different fans, respond to different personalities in different ways. I love the way Foran plays the game, and have since he first debuted. Even after he left us for the Eels, I couldn't hate him. When his mental health deteriorated and his career began to implode, I still wanted him to do well. I wanted him to come home, and eventually he did. And even that was never meant to last.

As for DCE, while he'll always have my admiration and respect, as well as my support as the Manly captain, somehow I've never completely warmed to the bloke. I can't put my finger on it, but something has always prevented me from giving him the same unconditional love I've got for players like Foran, Beaver, Steve Matai, Cliffy, Jamie Lyon, Phil Blake (yes, even Phil Blake), and Jake.

It's probably not very fair of me, especially given Cherry's contribution to the club, but it is what it is.

I'm with ya and I think it's (for me anyway) the way Foran took on the line without hesitation. It has taken its toll on his body for sure and it's why (again, my opinion) that Chez has been relatively injury free. And I would add, that Chez looks such a good player when he DOES run the ball to the line, so there's no doubt he can do it. It just isn't something he'll be remembered for, unlike Foran. And if I wanted one of them to come back to Manly as a coach, no prizes for guessing who I would prefer.