Croker Update

[BOZO]

This development player v top thirty argument re Croker is neglecting the fact that development contracts are 20 or 30k less than minimum top 30 contracts so I don’t think this is all part of some master strategy from Des.

Bottom line is Croker has had to take a pay cut to be on a development contact for a start,would be taking up a valuable 100k cap space if in the top 30 and must have been looking elsewhere for a 100k minimum top 30 salary.

Yes he’s there because he can provide a bit of cover in a key position post June 30 and he’s probably as good as some other alternative development options but also because he’s not regarded as being worth the 100k of actual cap HWCC was paying him. And it also means no other club wanted him on a top 30 minimum wage.

He’s definitely a tenacious young guy but his current position probably reflects where his career is right at this moment.

Well said @Sue . That is really putting things in the right perspective !!!
Lets not forget about our other premiership winning lower grades half Cade Cust . I rate this guy more than Croker . He is tough and robust , creative with a great kicking game . Rated highly by Andrew Johns
This is from our web site .
After playing six games in the Holden Cup last year, Cust finished the season with 14 matches for Blacktown Workers Sea Eagles in the Intrust Super Premiership NSW.
In his 14 games, Cust was involved in 13 try assists, broke the line seven times, and averaged 50 metres per games in runs. He also had an 83.6 per cent tackle efficiency rate.


Great prospect . Cade Cust can cut the mustard !

 

[Shoe1]

Out of interest have any big names come back from lots of knee operations before they were 23?

 

[BOZO]

Out of interest have any big names come back from lots of knee operations before they were 23?

Depends how bad the knees were . Not all knee injuries are career ending

 

[Sue]

Players 27-30 $72k minimum
Devel players $62k minimum.

I can't find it said anywhere that a devel contract must be less than all the Top 30 players contracts.

I am pretty sure development contracts have a maximum amount which is less than Top 30 minimum but must admit didn’t realise players 27 to 30 can be paid less than 100k so there so stand corrected and there would be not be as much in it as I thought.

Regular poster Smithy could clear this up.

In terms of Crokers case I’m pretty sure a guy who was in the Top 30 last year with injury problems and was off contract at the end of last year would have copped a salary cut.Also can’t see the reasoning in having a bloke who is supposed to cover a key position outside the top 30 while including guys like Winterstein who is way down the pecking order in a non key position.

Last year HWCC had one hooker and two kickers , one of which he wouldn’t pick, in the entire top 30.It was total madness.No point having a guy to cover a key position only available for the latter rounds while second tier forwards take up a spot for the whole year.Surely it would be the other way round if Croker was rated.And if we are using third string bsckrowers by June 30 we are probably fried anyway.Croker for whole year and a young backrower or the like on development contract makes a lot more sense.

I suppose my point was I think Crokers selection as development player is partly the new rules but mostly that Des doesn’t rate him as highly as HWCC.

I like the kid but with no decent kicking game and constant injury I just can’t see a future with Cust Metcalfe and co around the traps.

 

[40 years an eagle]

I suppose my point was I think Crokers selection as development player is partly the new rules and partly that Des doesn’t rate him as highly as HWCC.

Totally agree and my point was only that devel players are MUCH more important to the FG TEAM this year, can, and will, play a valuable role and under their new status can be "maneuvered" favourably.

Unfortunately through the size of his contract, Frank is an automatic inclusion in our "Top 30". I would have cut him loose probably 2 years ago.

 

[Sue]

Yep. A lot more important. The system last year was ridiculous. Basically meant they couldn’t get a game unless a roster was wiped out in one position.
Frank was not great example as you said as he was extended last year. Seemed crazy given his age and form. A few of the second tier 30 were coming off contract though so I suppose Crokers had a chance to grab their spot.Like you I’m looking forward to seeing a lot more new blood being given a go. The game needs something different.

If there had to be a reason Frank was retained it was probably the youth of the squad and he provided experience ... bit of a stretch but all I could think of.

 

[Scorpio]

Out of interest have any big names come back from lots of knee operations before they were 23?

Tedesco tore his ACL at 19, and also fractured his fibula and patella (kneecap) before he was 23. He also had a few ankle injuries too.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Last year HWCC had one hooker and two kickers

I assume that is short for He who cannot coach!

 

[HoldenV8]

Bozo he was an up and coming star and apart from his bad knees in my opinion could have locked down a permanent first grade start at any club . I watched him closely last season and the game we hammered parra showed me enough that he could play and that was very early rounds. Has the ammunition but will he get through the war ?

Mate, we could have had Marty Taupau playing 5/8 that day and still smashed the Worms. They were that bad and we just couldn't do anything wrong.

The unfortunate thing for Croker is that he was really only brought to the club in the first place as a back up, but he got thrust into being the first choice pivot well before he was ready. We released Green, missed out on a few others, plus Barrett and Hastings were having their little tiff. That basically left us with only one option really, Lachlan Croker (since Walks started the season out injured). He was the only half left in the squad with any first grade (one game) or NSW Cup experience.

Was he in over his head? Yes. Did he start to at least play a bit better in the game he was injured? Yes. But personally I hadn't seen enough from him that caused me to think he would be a long term half for us. Hopefully being on a development contract and getting to play a full season with Blacktown will see him come good.

Maybe, as @pjayz said, his best option would be a move to being a dummy half. His defence isn't too bad and his passing skills could easily be transferred to the #9 position. But being honest, as a half I can't see him being anything more than a bit player in the NRL whichever club he's at.

 

[HoldenV8]

I think that it showed where Croker sits at this stage of his career that after coming back as coach, one of the first things Des did in the make up of the squad was drop him out of it and make him a development player.

Development players are exactly that, development, not first or even second string (to use an American term). And the fact that he's 22 years old and is back on a development contract says a lot about where Des see's Croker in the scheme of things.

 

[Woodsie]

I suppose my point was I think Crokers selection as development player is partly the new rules but mostly that Des doesn’t rate him as highly as HWCC.

I think that it showed where Croker sits at this stage of his career that after coming back as coach, one of the first things Des did in the make up of the squad was drop him out of it and make him a development player.

What you are missing guys is that Croker was off contract ..... unless you are going to tell me Des has gone all sentimental .... what his development contract tells me, is that Des does rate him ..... I think the fact that it is a lowly development contract is more a reflection of the 3 knee blowouts and the risk involved than any judgement on talent ....

Remember ... the easy thing to do would have simply been to let him go ...... somebody rates him a good chance .......

 

[robbiea]

I think that it showed where Croker sits at this stage of his career that after coming back as coach, one of the first things Des did in the make up of the squad was drop him out of it and make him a development player.

Development players are exactly that, development, not first or even second string (to use an American term). And the fact that he's 22 years old and is back on a development contract says a lot about where Des see's Croker in the scheme of things.

Not so sure ,He originally wasnt even contracted for this year .If Des really didnt want him wouldnt it have been easier to not resign him.I could be wrong though !!

 

[HoldenV8]

What you are missing guys is that Croker was off contract ..... unless you are going to tell me Des has gone all sentimental .... what his development contract tells me, is that Des does rate him ..... I think the fact that it is a lowly development contract is more a reflection of the 3 knee blowouts and the risk involved than any judgement on talent ....

Remember ... the easy thing to do would have simply been to let him go ...... somebody rates him a good chance .......

If Des really rated him then he would still be in the first grade squad, not dropped back to a development contract.

Quite frankly, unless we have another injury riddled year then Croker's chances of ever playing first grade for us again are slim to none. Unless things improve regardless of past injury history, I'll be very surprised if he isn't cut from the club by the end of this year.

 

[Woodsie]

If Des really rated him then he would still be in the first grade squad, not dropped back to a development contract.

Quite frankly, unless we have another injury riddled year then Croker's chances of ever playing first grade for us again are slim to none. Unless things improve regardless of past injury history, I'll be very surprised if he isn't cut from the club by the end of this year.

OK ... simple question ..... Crocker was already off contract .... the End.

(Q) ... Why did Dessie give him any sort of contract ??

 

[40 years an eagle]

If Des really rated him then he would still be in the first grade squad, not dropped back to a development contract.

Quite frankly, unless we have another injury riddled year then Croker's chances of ever playing first grade for us again are slim to none. Unless things improve regardless of past injury history, I'll be very surprised if he isn't cut from the club by the end of this year.

OK ... simple question ..... Crocker was already off contract .... the End.

(Q) ... Why did Dessie give him any sort of contract ??

Gee, Des must have a role for him, as I have been saying, thanks Woodsie.

Surely Metcalfe, Cust etc would have filled Croker's spot if he is not thought good enough.

I believe Croker was heavily stifled under Barrett and had no chance to show the ability he obviously has having been selected as a junior rep.

All will be revealed in time.

 

[Woodsie]

Gee, Des must have a role for him, as I have been saying, thanks Woodsie.

Surely Metcalfe, Cust etc would have filled Croker's spot if he is not thought good enough.

I believe Croker was heavily stifled under Barrett and had no chance to show the ability he obviously has having been selected as a junior rep.

All will be revealed in time.

Not sure if there is a plan ..... my view is simply that Croker, ... at the cost of a DEv. contract ... is a high return / low risk investment.... and Dessie obviously thinks he is worth the gamble ...

 

[40 years an eagle]

Not sure if there is a plan ..... my view is simply that Croker, ... at the cost of a DEv. contract ... is a high return / low risk investment.... and Dessie obviously thinks he is worth the gamble ...

Fair enough but why is he ahead of Metcalfe who isn't even on a devel contract as of now. Maybe he will be given the last one before march 1.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Fair enough but why is he ahead of Metcalfe who isn't even on a devel contract as of now. Maybe he will be given the last one before march 1.

Metcalfe is on a development contract.

 

[Smokin Joe]

If Des really rated him then he would still be in the first grade squad, not dropped back to a development contract.

Quite frankly, unless we have another injury riddled year then Croker's chances of ever playing first grade for us again are slim to none. Unless things improve regardless of past injury history, I'll be very surprised if he isn't cut from the club by the end of this year.

He is not in the 30 because it is a risk to give a spot to a guy in the 30 who may be needed relatively early on who has injury issues and may be gone for the season.To give him a development contract(there are 6 spots available at a maximum of $60K each,total of $360K)is a good way to hedge your bets,how many halves with first grade experience are there available to be put on a development contract?(very few if any other than Croker)If he stays injury free then he would be valuable depth as a utility player after June 30(he looks like he can cover halves,hooker,fullback and probably centre at a pinch).As said before,low risk,low cost,potential high reward...

 

[40 years an eagle]

Metcalfe is on a development contract.

Thank you.