Croker - Honest opinions need apply

[HoldenV8]

Yes he will develop

But no he isn’t quite up to standard.

Time will tell

I hope he does make it and if he does I hope its still with Manly. But right now I would be more comfortable knowing Hastings was the 5/8.

 

[HoldenV8]

I'm with Maxta on this one, I thought he did a good job on debut. A couple of nice kicks, one the was almost a Tommy Turbo try. Ok, there were a few dropped balls. One trying to create 2nd phase play that went wrong, another that wasn't really his mistake. Geez there are done hard markers on here for the kids first game in our colours.

Personally, I think there was way more to be positive about than negative.

The only negative really was his lack of experience showed. Instead of helping organise the attack, he stayed on the left and only really got involved when the play went to that side. Of course, Barrett may have told him to do just that in his first game just to make it a bit easier for him. He handled it well enough, other than the offload from the ground that lost possession. But he needs to get more involved overall because DCE is simply not capable of game managing the team in attack.

The question still remains though. Is Croker capable of doing that right now? I don't think any of us want to go through half or a full season of watching the kid learn at the expense of the team not being as competitive as it should be.

I couldn't fault his defence. Often in the NRL, even with veteran halves but more so with younger ones, they have to be bailed out of trouble a lot of times by their back rowers. But Croker didn't need to be bailed out by Thompson from what I saw.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

The only negative really was his lack of experience showed. Instead of helping organise the attack, he stayed on the left and only really got involved when the play went to that side. Of course, Barrett may have told him to do just that in his first game just to make it a bit easier for him. He handled it well enough, other than the offload from the ground that lost possession. But he needs to get more involved overall because DCE is simply not capable of game managing the team in attack.

The question still remains though. Is Croker capable of doing that right now? I don't think any of us want to go through half or a full season of watching the kid learn at the expense of the team not being as competitive as it should be.

I couldn't fault his defence. Often in the NRL, even with veteran halves but more so with younger ones, they have to be bailed out of trouble a lot of times by their back rowers. But Croker didn't need to be bailed out by Thompson from what I saw.

That pretty much nails it.

We can’t afford a whole season whilst he learns his trade, if he’s good enough he’ll succeed.

Just ask Newcastle fans how they feel about 19 year old Kalyn Ponga.

 

[HoldenV8]

That pretty much nails it.

We can’t afford a whole season whilst he learns his trade, if he’s good enough he’ll succeed.

Just ask Newcastle fans how they feel about 19 year old Kalyn Ponga.

That is the million dollar question isn't it, if he doesn't work out how long will Barrett keep playing him in such an important position. Though I think its a good sign that Barrett has selected Hastings this week. Well, I hope its a good sign.

 

[BOZO]

That pretty much nails it.

We can’t afford a whole season whilst he learns his trade, if he’s good enough he’ll succeed.

Just ask Newcastle fans how they feel about 19 year old Kalyn Ponga.

Speaking of the 19 year old Ponga , I thought he was the most dangerous back on the field . On the day he out played Tom Turbo . That's how I saw it on full match fox Replay

 

[manly al]

Speaking of the 19 year old Ponga , I thought he was the most dangerous back on the field . On the day he out played Tom Turbo . That's how I saw it on full match fox Replay

That "s a fair assessment in regard to Tom who even though seemed to be favoring his ankle or whatever during the 2 nd half , still was not used properly in attack and i think that Manly would have won that match if he was . Jorge for mine was still the best back and certainly best attacking back on the paddock .

 

[lurker]

That pretty much nails it.

We can’t afford a whole season whilst he learns his trade, if he’s good enough he’ll succeed.

Just ask Newcastle fans how they feel about 19 year old Kalyn Ponga.

What has ever given anyone an indication that hastings can be a game manager? Touching up reserve grade doesn't signal that he can do the job that everyone is bagging croker for not IMMEDIATELY being able to do. It would take time for either of them. Yeh Hastings has played 40 odd games but very few of them if any were as a controlling half.

 

[Bubbler]

I just want to see Hastings given a fair go at partnering DCE at the NRL level.

 

[Snake]

I just want to see Hastings given a fair go at partnering DCE at the NRL level.

Don't worry Bubbler, the NRL will register you with the Cowboys and you won't have to worry about what Manly do with their 6 and 7.

 

[HoldenV8]

All good points, but Fittler was thrown in to 1sts early mate, doesn't matter what position..he got blooded young and performed pretty good.
Hastings was pretty bloody good in his first Rooster appearances. Surely he was the one to go to, but I will stand corrected during the season.
My tip is Hastings 5/8 by round 6

True, Fittler did actually come into first grade as a 5/8. But he only spent a few games there and played most of his first 3 or so years in the centres (also occasionally playing lock) because the Panthers had Steve Carter as their pivot during the time they won their first premiership in 1991.

Hastings went OK with the Chooks in 2016 after he was thrust into the role following Pearce's dog adventure on Australia Day (he was originally to be Pearce's new sidekick). But the problem was that with Pearce out, other than Jake Friend at hooker the rest of the spine was also rookies (Latrell Mitchell at FB, Ryan Matterson and Jayden Nikorima swapping at 5/8) or players out of position (Aiden Guerra played 5/8 for a couple of games). They were all learning as they went in first grade which is why the Chooks lost a lot of close games. Friend helped a bit but Hastings basically had to run that team until Pearce returned. And unfortunately for Jackson, while he played OK he did cop a lot of the blame for their fall down the ladder that year.

If he got his chance in the Manly #6 jumper I still say he would more than likely shine alongside DCE, Api and Tom.

 

[SeaEagle21]

True, Fittler did actually come into first grade as a 5/8. But he only spent a few games there and played most of his first 3 or so years in the centres (also occasionally playing lock) because the Panthers had Steve Carter as their pivot during the time they won their first premiership in 1991.

Hastings went OK with the Chooks in 2016 after he was thrust into the role following Pearce's dog adventure on Australia Day (he was originally to be Pearce's new sidekick). But the problem was that with Pearce out, other than Jake Friend at hooker the rest of the spine was also rookies (Latrell Mitchell at FB, Ryan Matterson and Jayden Nikorima swapping at 5/8) or players out of position (Aiden Guerra played 5/8 for a couple of games). They were all learning as they went in first grade which is why the Chooks lost a lot of close games. Friend helped a bit but Hastings basically had to run that team until Pearce returned. And unfortunately for Jackson, while he played OK he did cop a lot of the blame for their fall down the ladder that year.

If he got his chance in the Manly #6 jumper I still say he would more than likely shine alongside DCE, Api and Tom.

I still think there is something missing with Hastings. He had all the opportunity to walk into the 6 position over the off season but even though it might be heresay seems his attitide could be the only thing holding him back. For Blacktown last year he wasn’t setting the comp alight (having known DCE and Green were locks in the halves) so he wasn’t putting his best foot forward every week which is a sign of poor attitude. I’m thinking that’s what disappointed the coaching staff more than anything.

I’m thinking the first round pick of Croker made him stand up and understand you earn your spot and it’s not given to you (Croker trained the house down and that goes a long way). As a result Hastings played really well last week and has been rewarded for it by a call up to the 17.

Hopefully Hastings finally starts showing that potential that everyone talked about when he came into the Roosters First team as we could use a top notch half (watching Foz last week reminded me of what we lost).

Would love to see him get a shot at 5/8 and do some damage for both his sake and for Manly.

 

[HoldenV8]

There is something that has made Barrett decide to give Croker first crack at it in front of Hastings, though what that is I have no idea. It could be Jackson's attitude, it could be that Croker showed a lot more during pre-season training. It could be a number of things really.

Either way, I hope that one of them gets it right and becomes what the team needs from a half / five-eight. And I hope it happens sooner rather than later.

 

[Woodsie]

Three things to consider when appraising Crokers first game.

1) In my opinion Green's biggest contribution was being a competent and successful 6th tackle option and link .. rather than this broad and somewhat grandiose role of "game management"

2) Against Newcastle we spent just about every set of possession coming out of our own quarter (due to errors or penalties) ... this is an area where game management is not req'd and standard game pattern generally takes over. As a result about 80% of our last tackle options came down to a kick for field position.

3) because of (2) we had very few attacking sets in the opposition red zone (tradionally where you want your 5/8 to fire up) ... and as a result Croker had only about 2 last tackle option situations that mattered and in my opinion we have not yet seen enough of Croker's skill or decision making in these areas to be able to fully assess him..

Agree with those saying if he's not ready give Hastings a run ... but I would like to see a bit more of Croker in clutch situations before I get the hook out.

 

[eaglebuzz]

If Croker doesn't clean up his error rate he needs to be out on his arse in Blacktown until he learns how to hold the ball. 4 errors in one match is just not going to cut it for a guy fighting to prove that he belongs in first grade.

 

[KaZa]

He will need a few more games to see how he goes.. but it wasn't a good start imo.

I don't mind the errors if your trying to create something.. he made and good break and he lost the ball. It happens.

My issue with playing Croker.. is we need a half back not a 5/8. Lets face it. DCE plays like a 5/8. Good running game... likes to play off the cuff.. decent kicking game. We need an organising 5/8 who can do some long and short kicking. I think Croker offered very very little of this. He had two kicks? is that correct? I didn't see too much organising in the game from him and I just saw the old DCE who crabs across field stops and turns the other way. With Blake Green.. that lost DCE was not around anymore. He came back in round 1.

Doesn't mean Croker isn't a good 5/8... but I have a fear he may not suit DCE if he doesn't have those attributes. That's also why I think Hastings would go a lot better plus we would have a goal kicker. Its a no brainer from me. I get some players may not like him.. but we always work with people we don't like. DCE played with Snake and I even saw them high fiving each other. Surely that's not why hes being picked? Well anyway I am glad to see him make the bench. Think he has the attributes DCE requires to play to his full ability. I hope Croker shows a bit more of these attributes and we can put it down to a lack of possession/field position due to the constant errors.

 

[jbb/james]

Croker didnt blow it. I presume hastings wont be at manly next year so not sure im super keen to throw him in yet.

Croker should be given a real chance to lock it in because if he works out we get to spend on other positions.

He looked solid and to be honest the whole team looked to be just trying to get there game right rather than pushing too much. Just getting in the groove

Croker is second fiddle to the main man. Did the main man do enough to take pressure off the young guy especially in the kicking department

 

[HoldenV8]

Three things to consider when appraising Crokers first game.

1) In my opinion Green's biggest contribution was being a competent and successful 6th tackle option and link .. rather than this broad and somewhat grandiose role of "game management"

2) Against Newcastle we spent just about every set of possession coming out of our own quarter (due to errors or penalties) ... this is an area where game management is not req'd and standard game pattern generally takes over. As a result about 80% of our last tackle options came down to a kick for field position.

3) because of (2) we had very few attacking sets in the opposition red zone (tradionally where you want your 5/8 to fire up) ... and as a result Croker had only about 2 last tackle option situations that mattered and in my opinion we have not yet seen enough of Croker's skill or decision making in these areas to be able to fully assess him..

Agree with those saying if he's not ready give Hastings a run ... but I would like to see a bit more of Croker in clutch situations before I get the hook out.

Some well thought out points there Woodsie. Hard to find anything to argue with TBH.

You know, our forwards pretty much dominated theirs last week and normally you would think that would give the halves room to move and control the game. However, if you take a look at where the forwards made their ground, as you said most of it was coming out of our own half so the grunt work up front wasn't really going to lead to many attacking plays that either DCE or Croker might have been able to take advantage of. It was mostly just field position followed by a downfield kick. If the work the forwards did had been to get us into attacking positions for the most part then we might have seen it different than it turned out.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Well I’d be guessing if the cap debacle rolls on there’s no chance of signing another player ( Albert Kelly springs to mind) so we are either stuck with Croker or Hastings for the 2018 season at least.

**** you Greenslime, we haven’t lost but you are still winning!

 

[BOZO]

How do we evaluate players on how good they are ?
By comparing them with the good ones . That's how I do it .
I remember last season a 19 year old half Brodie Croft made his debut for the Storm and scored 3 tries and set up 2 others .
The 21 year old Croker made his debut for us last week playing his second NRL game since 2016 and after watching the replay of the game I can see why Ricky Stuart did not try and keep him at the Raiders .
I know that some players take time to shine but for mine Croker will not be the star that will lead us to a grand final .
I would like to see Croker have a big game this week and prove me wrong

 

[BOZO]

Well I’d be guessing if the cap debacle rolls on there’s no chance of signing another player ( Albert Kelly springs to mind) so we are either stuck with Croker or Hastings for the 2018 season at least.

**** you Greenslime, we haven’t lost but you are still winning!

We have until June don't we ?
By the way how is your trip going ?