Clean out time

[Easto]

So we sign 4 (Myles, Koroisau, Brown and Lussick) and let go 14. Does that make DCE worth 10?

Or are we in the market for……. geez, who’s left??

 

[Jerry1]

I am hearing you on this, Barrett is untested, however like any coach, his performance will now undoubtedly be monitored and scrutinized. I think it is high time there was more ownership of results and outcomes from al the staff. For legends like Bozo, who would have grown with the game, it is more a matter of wanting to become involved. I can't think of a better man to guide the club........Have you all noticed the absence of J. Kelly in all this???????????????

Agreed but,

To be honest in a radical restructure as it seems to be- I cant understand it
.
Surely the Penns as successful business professionals would want a coach with proven skills to be leading the rebuild. I can't see a puppet being able to command the respect of his team if he is constantly being over ruled & lorded over by Fulton & the owners.

The reason we were so good over the last decade was that Hasler was a "my way or the highway bloke". A strong leader, single minded & driven for success.

Now I know the majority of people on the site don't like Des but in a club that was ripped by board room division & decension he galvanized & shielded the players form all the crap that went on & managed to deliver us from evil...

We need another leader of his ilk. Someone who can inspire confidence. Someone that players will give there all for. Someone not afraid to stand up for the players when they are wronged & tuff enough to make the big calls when players time has come.

For me TB is not the man for now... He may well prove to be one of the all time great coach's but I really don't want to see a rookie in charge in what is a make or break time for our club.

 

[Wombat Legacy]

Agreed but,

To be honest in a radical restructure as it seems to be- I cant understand it
.
Surely the Penns as successful business professionals would want a coach with proven skills to be leading the rebuild. I can't see a puppet being able to command the respect of his team if he is constantly being over ruled & lorded over by Fulton & the owners.

The reason we were so good over the last decade was that Hasler was a "my way or the highway bloke". A strong leader, single minded & driven for success.

Now I know the majority of people on the site don't like Des but in a club that was ripped by board room division & decension he galvanized & shielded the players form all the crap that went on & managed to deliver us from evil...

We need another leader of his ilk. Someone who can inspire confidence. Someone that players will give there all for. Someone not afraid to stand up for the players when they are wronged & tuff enough to make the big calls when players time has come.

For me TB is not the man for now... He may well prove to be one of the all time great coach's but I really don't want to see a rookie in charge in what is a make or break time for our club.

Can't argue with that champ-spot on!!! Great post

 

[Ripper]

Even des was a rookie at one stage. And there would have to be more signings on the horizon, guaranteed.

 

[Ryan]

More signings arent required. Would be ideal. Yet not required.

 

[Fluffy]

More signings arent required. Would be ideal. Yet not required.

I think you will find they are, we will have to field a NSW cup team and you cannot replace 14 players with 4 or 5 and achieve this.

Sure we might get 4 or 5 coming up from U20's but to make that 10 players pretty much means that we have ZERO depth thus guaranteeing the spoon if we have a injury year like this year

 

[Ryan]

I think you will find they are, we will have to field a NSW cup team and you cannot replace 14 players with 4 or 5 and achieve this.

Sure we might get 4 or 5 coming up from U20's but to make that 10 players pretty much means that we have ZERO depth thus guaranteeing the spoon if we have a injury year like this year

Don't we have some really talented kids from NYC ready to step up in Demetriou, Ramien, Bainbridge, Travers & others? Then we have depth like JSL, and Leary. Jeez, it's not as dire as everyone is suggesting guys.

 

[Sideline Eye]

When Bozo came on as an unofficial coaching/player director he identified the major problem as being junior development which was also made evident in the media last week where Manly ranked last. If that means blooding younger players, even if in the U20s, then so be it. It may be tough for a year or two but I am sure the club will reap the rewards in the years to come.

Look at what he did with the teams of the nineties where the majority were local juniors. Even Des identified the lack of funding for local juniors as being a major problem for Manly going forward and was a primary factor contributing to the issues he had with the then board which lead to his departure.

 

[Loobs]

Don't we have some really talented kids from NYC ready to step up in Demetriou, Ramien, Bainbridge, Travers & others? Then we have depth like JSL, and Leary. Jeez, it's not as dire as everyone is suggesting guys.

True, but JSL needs to come on. Was expecting more from him before he got injured. I think Lui did come on but this is probably his ceiling. Leary probably doesn't have much more improvement - he's not 21. Demetriou is intriguing though, along with Liam Knight.

 

[Shoe1]

Don't we have some really talented kids from NYC ready to step up in Demetriou, Ramien, Bainbridge, Travers & others? Then we have depth like JSL, and Leary. Jeez, it's not as dire as everyone is suggesting guys.

I agree, ramien for example has to be far better than the likes of williame

 

[Fluffy]

Don't we have some really talented kids from NYC ready to step up in Demetriou, Ramien, Bainbridge, Travers & others? Then we have depth like JSL, and Leary. Jeez, it's not as dire as everyone is suggesting guys.

Leary, JSL etc are already in those squads.

We are replacing 14 guys with 4 signings and Toyota cup players right now.

So 10 players to come in, only 1 tested in Tommy T and as stated we don't have a great record with players coming on so to expect more than 3 or 4 of those to be any good is going against the odds and NSW cup would be odds on favourites for the wooden spoon if this all happens (not that it worries me). I want to see depth of 10 or so players in NSW cup to cover injuries, especially up front but next year we will have less props available than this year and look how that turned out.

You only need to look back at guys like Stromquist, Higgins etc to know that there is a huge step between U20 and NSW cup let alone NRL. For every guy who makes it there are 4 or 5 who dont.

A clean out of about 10 would be fine given 4 are replaced already and 4 or 5 can be covered by juniors, any more than that will be impossible to cover in one year.

 

[The Who]

Do you reckon Bozo used the whiteboard clean-out tactic so eloquently pioneered by Sticky at Doesn'tmatta?

 

[Remi]

When Bozo came on as an unofficial coaching/player director he identified the major problem as being junior development which was also made evident in the media last week where Manly ranked last. If that means blooding younger players, even if in the U20s, then so be it. It may be tough for a year or two but I am sure the club will reap the rewards in the years to come.

Look at what he did with the teams of the nineties where the majority were local juniors. Even Des identified the lack of funding for local juniors as being a major problem for Manly going forward and was a primary factor contributing to the issues he had with the then board which lead to his departure.

I am hoping we can retain some of our u20s as hearing some of these players might have to take a pay cut to stay as the club who is trying to find $$$$ from the previous retention team who have wasted so much $$$$ and spent too much on ordinary players

 

[Simonmyers11]

If Toovey has been indeed 'tapped' on the shoulder, and a payout figure is being discussed to make way for Barret in 2016, I hope Toovey doesn't dig his heels in and try and refuse to leave. Would make the whole thing very messy and not what the players need in the build up to 2016. If the owners have asked you to move on, you would think it would be an untenable relationship between owners and Toovey, and he would have no support from Penns/Kelly, and the players also need to know they are being coached under a long term coach.

Hope he just walks away and accepts it. Manly will still have a role for him to play with the club

 

[HappilyManly]

Already reported that 2v will be paid his 2016 fee, but the Penns are debating 2v's bonus payments for the KPIs he met 😎

2V has done nothing wrong, it's the 'change in direction' that has caused the early exit.
2V should be paid for 3 consecutive finals, top 4 finishes and a GF

Most NRL Coaches never attain his record

 

[Loobs]

Already reported that 2v will be paid his 2016 fee, but the Penns are debating 2v's bonus payments for the KPIs he met 😎

2V has done nothing wrong, it's the 'change in direction' that has caused the early exit.
2V should be paid for 3 consecutive finals, top 4 finishes and a GF

Most NRL Coaches never attain his record

He should get a bonus for dealing with Choc and the garbage of last year and most of this campaign.

This should be offset against picking Hasson and that horrible "one hooker policy" rant/"the games too fast" whinge on 360...

 

[Ryan]

Leary, JSL etc are already in those squads.

We are replacing 14 guys with 4 signings and Toyota cup players right now.

So 10 players to come in, only 1 tested in Tommy T and as stated we don't have a great record with players coming on so to expect more than 3 or 4 of those to be any good is going against the odds and NSW cup would be odds on favourites for the wooden spoon if this all happens (not that it worries me). I want to see depth of 10 or so players in NSW cup to cover injuries, especially up front but next year we will have less props available than this year and look how that turned out.

You only need to look back at guys like Stromquist, Higgins etc to know that there is a huge step between U20 and NSW cup let alone NRL. For every guy who makes it there are 4 or 5 who dont.

A clean out of about 10 would be fine given 4 are replaced already and 4 or 5 can be covered by juniors, any more than that will be impossible to cover in one year.

All good points Fluff, but lets break it down further. Here is a list of players below, who are marked to leave, and who I think replaces them:-

Burgess - replaced by Nate Myles (upgrade)
Ballin - replaced by Api Koroisou (upgrade attack / downgrade defense & leadership)
Mason - replaced by Darcy Lussick (younger, stronger, meaner - upgrade)
Mateo - Honestly, I hope and feel we may retain him if he plays well from here on
Williams - Gutherson in to replace Wolfie (Upgrade)
Horo - Jamie Buhrer returning is a direct swap - and massive upgrade)
Starling - Brenton Lawrence returning and a massive upgrade)
Lui - (We need a big running replacement - Tamou maybe????)
Hasson - Should never play - Jesse Sene-Lefeo to replace (Huge upgrade)
Blair - Should and would never play 1st graded here again
Hodges - replaced by International Lewis Brown (massive upgrade)
Littlejohn - we'll have guys like Travers & others coming through (adds same value)
Vave - Has not and will not see 1st grade (no difference)
Andrews - Hasn't really seen 1st grade, and not good enough for first grade

Mate, we have actually gone well forward in my books. Will we miss Foran? As much as it pains me to say, yes, we will. Other than that, all holes are filled.

What I see here is plenty of dead weight that hasn't, or isn't cutting the mustard any longer.

At least give Barrett, Kelly, Penn's & others a go (not talking to you here Fluffy) before you assassinate their abilities.

 

[Fluffy]

All good points Fluff, but lets break it down further. Here is a list of players below, who are marked to leave, and who I think replaces them:-

Burgess - replaced by Nate Myles (upgrade)
Ballin - replaced by Api Koroisou (upgrade attack / downgrade defense & leadership)
Mason - replaced by Darcy Lussick (younger, stronger, meaner - upgrade)
Mateo - Honestly, I hope and feel we may retain him if he plays well from here on
Williams - Gutherson in to replace Wolfie (Upgrade)
Horo - Jamie Buhrer returning is a direct swap - and massive upgrade)
Starling - Brenton Lawrence returning and a massive upgrade)
Lui - (We need a big running replacement - Tamou maybe????)
Hasson - Should never play - Jesse Sene-Lefeo to replace (Huge upgrade)
Blair - Should and would never play 1st graded here again
Hodges - replaced by International Lewis Brown (massive upgrade)
Littlejohn - we'll have guys like Travers & others coming through (adds same value)
Vave - Has not and will not see 1st grade (no difference)
Andrews - Hasn't really seen 1st grade, and not good enough for first grade

Mate, we have actually gone well forward in my books. Will we miss Foran? As much as it pains me to say, yes, we will. Other than that, all holes are filled.

What I see here is plenty of dead weight that hasn't, or isn't cutting the mustard any longer.

At least give Barrett, Kelly, Penn's & others a go (not talking to you here Fluffy) before you assassinate their abilities.

You cannot replace someone with a player already in the squad. You must have a minimum 25 players in your first grade squad and you need to cover injuries.

Gutherson, Buhrer, BJ, JSL already have spots there which goes back to my point we are replacing 14 players with Myles, Api K, Lussick and Brown. The other replacements come from U20's at the moment, another year like this year and half our first grade squad is from there, ask the tigers how that works out? Wooden spoon risk big time.

Have a look at our pack for next year.
BJ
Myles
Turbo
Lussick
Demetriou (untried)
Knight (untried)
???
???

Hooker we have
Api K
Brown (although he is needed in the backrow)
???

Backrow
Buhrer
JSL
Symonds
Brown
Leary
???
???
???

Less depth than the kids pool at wet n wild

 

[Easto]

I dunno, but I’m allowing myself to be delusional and death ride Sam Burgess’ chances of making the England RWC squad (http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/17/england-head-coach-stuart-lancaster-sam-burgess), he comes back and then we’ve got a bit of freed up money to throw his way…

Now, where’s that “tell him he’s dreaming” button?

 

[Ryan]

You cannot replace someone with a player already in the squad. You must have a minimum 25 players in your first grade squad and you need to cover injuries.

Gutherson, Buhrer, BJ, JSL already have spots there which goes back to my point we are replacing 14 players with Myles, Api K, Lussick and Brown. The other replacements come from U20's at the moment, another year like this year and half our first grade squad is from there, ask the tigers how that works out? Wooden spoon risk big time.

Have a look at our pack for next year.
BJ
Myles
Turbo
Lussick
Demetriou (untried)
Knight (untried)
???
???

Hooker we have
Api K
Brown (although he is needed in the backrow)
???

Backrow
Buhrer
JSL
Symonds
Brown
Leary
???
???
???

Less depth than the kids pool at wet n wild

My top 25 players for next season:-

01. Brett Stewart
02. Jorge Taufua
03. Steve Matai
04. Clinton Gutherson
05. Tom Trbojevic
06. Jamie Lyon
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Jake Trbojevic
09. Api Koroisou
10. Nate Myles
11. Feleti Meteo
12. Tom Symonds
13. Jamie Buhrer

14. Lewis Brown
15. Darcy Lussick
16. Brenton Lawrence
17. Blake Leary

18. Peta Hiku (Backline back-up)
19. Jesse Sene-Lefeo (Backrow back-up
20. Addison Demetriou (Centres / Backrow back-up)
21. Riley Travers (Halves back-up)
22. Jesse Ramien (Backline back-up)
23. Will Pearsall (Halves back-up)
24. PROP one
25. PROP two

That's without us signing anyone, and all players on the "list" apart from Feleti going.