Can our forwards back up during the semis??

[Technical Coach]

Forwards are no worries but without DCE we seem directionless in our sets

The game would have been the same with or without DCE tonight the only difference being we might have scored enough points to win with both halves on the ground.

DCE did not do much last week against the Roosters--- Foran and Brett were the difference.

Out muscled out enthused and lacking intensity tonight plain and simple nothing to do with missing a half back or direction.

Well if DCE played and we scored more points and won the game... that's actually a very different game than what we saw, is it not?

FMD. That'll do me tonight.

No it means the class of our halves/backs might have saved us even if or forwards were dominated.

 

[davohan123]

I saw tonight coming from a mile away. Honestly, I am not the least bit surprised by the result.

The Dogs had everything to play for, having been embarrassed at Brookie earlier in the year. They were rank outsiders, and under no pressure coming into the game; I could smell an ambush a mile away, and after 10 minutes you could easily see a lack of intensity from our players.

The space for Kasiano to run towards the touch line, the arm grabbing, the lack of genuine line speed (in direct contrast to last week), and a general lethargic approach to the fundamentals, told the story. If we could have skipped out to a 12 nil lead things could have been very different, but when you give the underdog a sniff, it's very difficult to wrestle back any momentum.

We beat ourselves tonight. Canterbury came to play, but we never got off the bus. The fact that the Bulldogs were without their halves is the only thing that kept the scores close. A better team beats us by 20 tonight. I have no concerns that if we turn up next time, we will have a repeat of Round 13 and take care of the dogs.

If you watch the press conference, Toovey mentions that tonight was a lot like the Tigers match at Leichhardt; we were flat. I will also mention that it appeared to be one rule for us, and one rule for Canterbury concerning laying in ruck...geez that pissed me off tonight.

Pretty much sums up my view of the game
Such a different outfit to what ran out last week at Brookvale oval in terms of intensity.

I think we will play the dogs again this year and win convincingly- my tip we play them week 1 of the finals at the SFS.

Oh well that is sport, you win some and you lose some.

At the end of the day we still have a hell of team to support and who we know at full strength no team can really match us this year.

Still have really not clicked out of 2nd gear this year.

 

[RiverEagle]

Forwards are no worries but without DCE we seem directionless in our sets

The game would have been the same with or without DCE tonight the only difference being we might have scored enough points to win with both halves on the ground.

DCE did not do much last week against the Roosters--- Foran and Brett were the difference.

Out muscled out enthused and lacking intensity tonight plain and simple nothing to do with missing a half back or direction.

Well if DCE played and we scored more points and won the game... that's actually a very different game than what we saw, is it not?

FMD. That'll do me tonight.

No it means the class of our halves/backs might have saved us even if or forwards were dominated.

And that's all @Fluffy was saying.

He said, '' He felt if DCE played it might have helped''. Eg. Perhaps we would've won.

You say, '' No, it wouldn't have made any difference (if DCE played or not)...Unless he made enough difference for us to score enough points and win...''

Do you really not see the absurdity of that?

If you're point was that DCE (or his class) might've made a difference, just agree with Fluffy, and say, ''Maybe''.

Or better yet, let his opinion stand and speak for itself.

I'm beginning to think you're a beak (or at least work in a para-legal field).

Too often you say a whole lot of something, that when boiled down, is actually nothing.

 

[danny-boy]

You guys are reading too much into it. We always play crap against crap opposition. We just don't turn up for these dud games. All the other team has to do is show a lot of enthusiasm and they get us. The same thing happened against the Tigers and Broncos. Heck even the Knights and Parra almost got us.

We won't play like that come finals time.

 

[The Cherry]

Was there something you saw tonight that I didn't?.

Just in case you didn't notice:

(1) Watmough, G. Stewart watching from the stands.

(2) Our X-Factor Cherry not playing, Tafua not playing.

(3) A horrible referee performance

And Manly were still 16-16 with a few minutes to go.

Playing the bulldogs is like playing against turtles in mud. They wrestle and spoil all day but our forwards matched them and with even two of those blokes in the stands being on the field we canter in.

NY(pissed)Eagle

They were also missing a heap of players
Not many team with their half and 5/8 missing
Against a team like ours get a win, they needed a bit of luck and they got it and we got bashed up the middle simple

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I don't know. We were completely outmuscled.

We lift for the big games but can we do it back to back to back in the finals?

Simple, finish top 2 and win the darned semi, not lose it like we did last year. Week off, Bob's your uncle.

 

[Bandit]

Manly were a magnificent contradiction last night, as only we can be.

On the one hand, running out with that stupid "we're gonna smash you by 50" arrogance and not taking the gift 2 points ten metres out in front of the posts at 6 all (which would've won us the game, imo). Yet clearly did not turn up - prepared for collisions and hard yakka.

The forwards were easily outmuscled (that was piss weak early in the 2nd half, when they pushed up backwards for 6 tackles), too many mistakes (dropped balls & giving away penalties, early in tackle count) & Foran was very disappointing. His kicking was bad (out on the full) or non existant & he's not a "General" or gifted game-breaker - he's just a limited, gutsy grafter.

Hiku's defence is weak, isn't an aerial leaper & makes alot of mistakes. S-Lefao's GR8 - comes off bench in 20th min & on tackle 1, lazily comes in as 3rd man & puts a finger on tackled player to give away pen, as his 1st act. They kick for touch & score to go 10-6 up.

Who re signed those 2 rejects???

And I've given up on Starling.

Bring in Andrews & Sao and sure Sid's a huge plus . . . so too Jorgey, Choc & Gift.

But arrogance (not respecting quality NRL opposition) and players not "turning up", unwilling to get hurt in the man on man collision - that is not an easy Dressing-room culture to turn around.

And Tooves, please keep the back-slappers away from the squad and remind them to stop admiring all the dribble they're reading/ watching/ listening to. Last night was not acceptible.

Gutherson, Skivvy, Ferris, Ballin, Snake ok.

 

[Fluffy]

Starling's 10 runs for 97m must have been while you went for a break

 

[Kevinward777]

Forwards are no worries but without DCE we seem directionless in our sets

The game would have been the same with or without DCE tonight the only difference being we might have scored enough points to win with both halves on the ground.

DCE did not do much last week against the Roosters--- Foran and Brett were the difference.

Out muscled out enthused and lacking intensity tonight plain and simple nothing to do with missing a half back or direction.

You're always so passionate after a loss... why is that?

 

[Bandit]

Starling's 10 runs for 97m must have been while you went for a break

Gotta admit . . . I was frustrated and switching off abit.

But they fair dinkum "rag-dolled" us with 16 men.

They did lose a pretty fair front-rower in Tolman, in the 1st minute.
Tim Browne bashed Starling early - FFS sign him up now, as he's off contract at the end of 2014.

Pension off Kingy & with his dough & Gift gone, surely we can make a move on another good, big man.

Even allowing for upgraded contracts on some of our youngsters.

cheers & push it up, Manly.

 

[Red Pill]

Tooves seemed pretty relaxed at the press conference.
I think this is a pretty good gauge on things.
Tired of all the doomsday talk about our forwards. We just beat a nearly full strength Roosters the week before.
We were not as hungry as the dogs last night both teams had key players out. Must say I fancy our chances against the dogs come finals time with a close to full strength team.

 

[Alan]

I know I am a complete dope, but for some strange reason I am more confident in our forwards this morning than I have been all year.

Yes you didn't have to be Erastodenes to predict their massive pack would dominate our more svelte and mobile pack. But two things stuck out for me. Our little fellas came back at them and at about the 60min mark I thought if not getting on top certainly matching them. Also I thought Starling was hurt more than he made out and when he did come back had a real dig. I think this bunch of blokes are developing real character. Add in Gift and choc and I believe they will get the job done.

As HM stated briefly our biggest problem was field position as result of their dominant pack and a woeful general kicking game, I don't think their kick receiver had to move more than a metre all night.

Without field position our backs are to a degree neutralised.

 

[tookey]

Manly were a magnificent contradiction last night, as only we can be.

On the one hand, running out with that stupid "we're gonna smash you by 50" arrogance and not taking the gift 2 points ten metres out in front of the posts at 6 all (which would've won us the game, imo). Yet clearly did not turn up - prepared for collisions and hard yakka.

The forwards were easily outmuscled (that was piss weak early in the 2nd half, when they pushed up backwards for 6 tackles), too many mistakes (dropped balls & giving away penalties, early in tackle count) & Foran was very disappointing. His kicking was bad (out on the full) or non existant & he's not a "General" or gifted game-breaker - he's just a limited, gutsy grafter.

Hiku's defence is weak, isn't an aerial leaper & makes alot of mistakes. S-Lefao's GR8 - comes off bench in 20th min & on tackle 1, lazily comes in as 3rd man & puts a finger on tackled player to give away pen, as his 1st act. They kick for touch & score to go 10-6 up.

Who re signed those 2 rejects???

And I've given up on Starling.

Bring in Andrews & Sao and sure Sid's a huge plus . . . so too Jorgey, Choc & Gift.

But arrogance (not respecting quality NRL opposition) and players not "turning up", unwilling to get hurt in the man on man collision - that is not an easy Dressing-room culture to turn around.

And Tooves, please keep the back-slappers away from the squad and remind them to stop admiring all the dribble they're reading/ watching/ listening to. Last night was not acceptible.

Gutherson, Skivvy, Ferris, Ballin, Snake ok.

Our forwards seem to play pretty well against the roosters the week before.

The only change we need to make is replace King with Sao. King has played one year too long and was embarrassing last night. One missed tackle led to a try and he made one hit up of three metres and was pushed back five.

---

Starling's 10 runs for 97m must have been while you went for a break

Gotta admit . . . I was frustrated and switching off abit.

But they fair dinkum "rag-dolled" us with 16 men.

They did lose a pretty fair front-rower in Tolman, in the 1st minute.
Tim Browne bashed Starling early - FFS sign him up now, as he's off contract at the end of 2014.

Pension off Kingy & with his dough & Gift gone, surely we can make a move on another good, big man.

Even allowing for upgraded contracts on some of our youngsters.

cheers & push it up, Manly.

Bashed Starling up with an illegal shoulder charge. Browne was penalised for his first shoulder charge but not the second one. Inconsistant refereeing.

There needs to be an investigation.

 

[Technical Coach]

Forwards are no worries but without DCE we seem directionless in our sets

The game would have been the same with or without DCE tonight the only difference being we might have scored enough points to win with both halves on the ground.

DCE did not do much last week against the Roosters--- Foran and Brett were the difference.

Out muscled out enthused and lacking intensity tonight plain and simple nothing to do with missing a half back or direction.

Well if DCE played and we scored more points and won the game... that's actually a very different game than what we saw, is it not?

FMD. That'll do me tonight.

No it means the class of our halves/backs might have saved us even if or forwards were dominated.

And that's all @Fluffy was saying.

He said, '' He felt if DCE played it might have helped''. Eg. Perhaps we would've won.

You say, '' No, it wouldn't have made any difference (if DCE played or not)...Unless he made enough difference for us to score enough points and win...''

Do you really not see the absurdity of that?

If you're point was that DCE (or his class) might've made a difference, just agree with Fluffy, and say, ''Maybe''.

Or better yet, let his opinion stand and speak for itself.

I'm beginning to think you're a beak (or at least work in a para-legal field).

Too often you say a whole lot of something, that when boiled down, is actually nothing.

No the comments I replied to was all about being "directionless" and rudderless, the point I am making is with two halves we might have had enough points in us to cover other areas that were lacking.

What I am saying is if Foran was out and DCE was alone the result would have been the same as if DCE was out----it was not about missing a halfback.

We had more than enough points in us with the class in the halves and backs Manly have to win this game especially considering the Dogs were missing both halves and other players.

Once again the point is it has nothing to do with rudderless or directionless pure and simple not enough aggression, not enough intensity, flat, out muscled and not winning the ruck be it in defence or generating quick play the balls.

As Melb have perfected over the years you need to dominate the ruck and slow it down if you are going to play light in the forwards.

Also generating quick play the balls is even more important when you play light so it is imperative to use the right type of ball movement to avoid gang tackling or dominant tackles against us.

Playing light running sideways and getting hit in a strong inside side hip tackle does not help the cause which tends to increase when you are not generating quick play the balls and trying to avoid a defence already in your face.

We need a Ritchie Fa'aoso and Joe Galuvou type of player that just runs hard and straight and plays with intensity which is lacking to break the game out of a grind.

We can still win the GF but it is going to take a mighty effort from the forwards on a continues basis not just lift for one or two games then be flat.

Toovey is correct in some respects about the Refs lack of consistency in the interpretation of the play the ball speed but we are also our own worst enemies playing light.

Toovey knows if we don't get our way in the play the ball our light forward pack has no chance that is why he stressed the point in the press conference.

 

[Fluffy]

And the point I made is that DCE directs the ball to the right player to get the play the ball, something you seem to be oblivious to.

 

[Technical Coach]

And the point I made is that DCE directs the ball to the right player to get the play the ball, something you seem to be oblivious to.

Oh is that what DCE has been doing all year lol---you have got to be kidding right.

DCE has not been playing like an organising half for many games this year, Foran in many instances is getting the ball first from dummy half.

These days the half is not so much steering a ship around as much as the past(maybe directing verbally from behind and playing off the back)----it still exists but is not the be all and end all. The hooker plays more like a half even forwards these days have more balls skills and in "some cases" direct a set of 6 around the park.

---

I know I am a complete dope, but for some strange reason I am more confident in our forwards this morning than I have been all year.

Yes you didn't have to be Erastodenes to predict their massive pack would dominate our more svelte and mobile pack. But two things stuck out for me. Our little fellas came back at them and at about the 60min mark I thought if not getting on top certainly matching them. Also I thought Starling was hurt more than he made out and when he did come back had a real dig. I think this bunch of blokes are developing real character. Add in Gift and choc and I believe they will get the job done.

As HM stated briefly our biggest problem was field position as result of their dominant pack and a woeful general kicking game, I don't think their kick receiver had to move more than a metre all night.

Without field position our backs are to a degree neutralised.

Yes the late 50 to 60min mark the Dogs started to fatigue noticeably but by then they could grind out a win.

At Brookie on a heavy pitch it was after 20mins then DCE's brilliance started a free-fall and the points started to flow.

Manly coming back from 14-0 down like the Souths Semi last year will not happen this year and it is a real risk of happening again if we just rely on "matching" other teams and hoping we come over the top finals time.

 

[RiverEagle]

I'm just disappointed with people who too often get juiced up over a loss and seem to revel in the opportunity to bag our blokes.

Very rarely do they wax lyrical over victories.
Or they still focus on the negatives and apologize for the opposition (and why it was understandable THEY lost...And our win wasn't all that good).

It's an attitude I just don't understand, and find hard to tolerate.

One average effort; a narrow loss to quality opposition; and some ppl are death-riding AND even writing off guys like Hiku and JSL??

We're still on top of the farking table, if you forgot to look.

I'm honestly not sure why some people actually put themselves through such misery, as ''Manly fans''......Apart from the chance to criticize, and clearly get-off on that, I guess.

 

[Jethro]

Bashed Starling up with an illegal shoulder charge. Browne was penalised for his first shoulder charge but not the second one. Inconsistant refereeing.

Agreed. I think that it was Rabbits who also mentioned the same thing about those two shoulder charges when he was calling the game. I bet neither of them will be picked up by the Match Review Committee.

 

[Technical Coach]

My job is to find flaws/room for improvement even in victories that is what I love doing so the average fan can enjoy more wins than losses in the future.

Fans enjoy the end result that is all that matters.

I'm a fan but enjoy being a student of the game more.

Do you ever see me point out individuals and death riding them or do I make observations on what we could do better.

I compliment when I see it is well deserved so when I do it holds more weight.

I've complimented many times Toovey and his direction along with the coaching staff more than I did under Hasler and we have not even won a GF under Tooves.(I guess this means Hasler is a better coach lol and my views/theories are all wrong)

Tooves is coaching under more strict budget constraints than Hasler and almost getting equal results with less depth.

Yeah Toovey has had the advantage of a maturing halves combination that was developed under Hasler which could be covering up his own flaws time will tell I guess.

 

[Fluffy]

your job?

who the f... pays you?