MrInvisible said:
I don't understand the angst and anger towards Bulldogs supporters on here, I really don't.
I often read (and in some cases participate) in opposing teams forums. It's always interesting to get the viewpoint from someone without that teams coloured glasses on, and over at The Kennel we enjoy input from sensible Souths and Panthers fans on the forum. Rather than shouting down the opinion of someone who might not put on the same jersey as you to head out to a weekends game, you should be considering why they are voicing an opinion in the way they are. IF I was trolling, believe me I'd be doing a much better job at it, and I'd have posted far more controversially on here. You'll find my previous posts are either factual, or level headed.
My main point here is how a club can let player contracts get to the situation they are in now. As a Bulldogs fan we've lost big names before, but like (seemingly) every other club in the NRL, contracts are spaced out evenly, and players ensured they are locked up before "it" hits the fan in the papers.
Again as Daniel mentioned it may be a case of media manipulation attempting to blow a minor revision of contract into a major story, but at the moment it seems there is more to it. If most other sides in the NRL (previous premiership winners or not) are renewing/upgrading contracts in a timely fashion, surely as a fan of Manly you have to raise the question why these players have not been looked after before ... well.. now.
Rather than wait for a player to kick up a stink about wanting more money, a clubs management should be proactive enough to upgrade the contracts of future talents, and make allowances for contract upgrades before the player comes asking for one.
Perhaps it's like the Tigers, where someones been a bit over ambitious and signed up too many players to allow for contract upgrades in the cap, I don't know, but it just seems a dis-service to the loyal fanbase to have to clean out a large number of players because you've failed to be proactive and secure a player before contract talks have arisen.
To me it seems like the Manly bigwigs are constantly putting off contract upgrades/renewals, until their hand is forced. This coupled with backloading a lot of contracts previously was just asking for a problem down the track, as everyone is now seeing.
My advice is concentrate on the ones that point out the flaws in your argument fairly and put up a good argument.
Let me show you how its done:
- The Bulldogs have re-signed players over the past year but before then they:
1) Lost Sonny Bill Williams, Willy Mason, Braith Anasta, Johnathan Thurston and Roy Asotasi, Steve Price just to mention a few off the top of my head.
2) In 2008 they bought 8 new superstars to fill their ranks for 2009.
3) Their retention was SO good that they needed to buy another 8 superstars in 2010 for the 2011 season.
4) 2002 they retained players by rorting the cap.
Now, lets look at Manly:
1) Players still at the club who signed pre - 2007: Brett Stewart, Glenn Stewart, Steve Matai, Anthony Watmough, Jason King, Brent Kite, George Rose, Jamie Lyon, Matt Ballin
2) Superstars we've lost (that haven't retired) since 2007: Michael Monahan (to the UK), Michael Robertson (to the UK), Steve Menzies (to the UK), Shane Rodney (to the UK), Steve Bell (to the UK), Matt Orford (went to the UK, now retired), Trent Hodkinson (Bulldogs), Will Hopoate (Morman/Eels), JWH (Roosters), Glenn Hall (went to UK, now at Cowboys), Heath Le'Strange (to the UK)
3) Young guys we brought in and made superstars since 2007: Tony Williams, David Williams, Daly Cherry-Evans, Kieran Foran, Will Hopoate (gone), Trent Hodkinson (gone), Jamie Buhrer, Darcy Lussick, JWH (gone)
And all that is off the top of my head, I'm sure I've forgotten someone.
My point is, you knock our ability to retain players. However, when you have a superstar team that turns your juniors into superstars as well, you are likely to either be right near the cap or you will start to lose some of these players. If you don't drop them then you turn into cheats like the Bulldogs in 2002, or the Storm from 2006 - 2010.
No Bulldog fan ever has a right to argue about staying under the salary cap because they have rorted it before. No Bulldogs fan can ever lecture us about re-signing players when they can't do this themselves and have to buy new people every 3 years. No Bulldogs fan has a right to talk about Manly and the way we operate because we have 2 premierships in 4 years and have still been able to retain most of those stars, while the Bulldogs leak players and junior like no tomorrow and haven't won a premiership since 2004.
Bulldogs fans have no right coming onto a Manly forum telling us how bad our operations are when they have bought Manly staff to improve their own operations.
Finally, no Bulldogs fan has a right to tell us how to retain our juniors when the only two juniors your club has bred in the past couple of years to make something of themselves are Ben Barba and Daniel Harrison. Guess what? We have Daniel Harrison right here at Brookvale, so thanks for that. Oh, and he's one of our Juniors anyways so you I guess you bought him as well.
The last 2 points I make are simple:
1) I have mentioned this before but you ignored it: you said we have a million dollars in the bank after winning the GF, we should put that to our wages. How do we do this when we have hit the $4.3 Million cap, without doing a Doggies and rorting the cap?
2) You mentioned above that we leave negotiating to the last minute. How is negotiating a contract 20 months before it ends "waiting until the last minute"?
The reason people hate the Dogs fans on this forum is because you all walk around since you got Des like your s**t don't stink. We couldn't give a rats arse that you got Des, you can have him. It just means that you all want to be like us, its actually a compliment: Canterbury - Bankstown: the new Silvertails!!! Nice ring to it.
You MrInvisible are, by coming on here, causing the most trouble. You may not mean it but you are exactly like Marie from "Everybody Loves Raymond". You make your compliments sound like they are genuine, but then you slap us in the face at the same time. It's called a backhanded compliment. We are not idiots. Therefore, you are a troll.
If you want to have a discussion, get rid of the backhanded compliments, and put up a logical argument. So far all I've heard is BS, which is not a good way to have an intellectual conversation. If you can't do this, then see you later and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
