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Albert hopoate cleared by specialist

The Who

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So we scored 16 tries in the first 6 games and then 11 in the last 4?We are scoring more tries per game without Turbo?(just more in the forwards),Sounds like a side that has adapted without its' main strike weapons.....
How many tries have been scored against us in those four matches?
16, 17?
 

Bearfax

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So we scored 16 tries in the first 6 games and then 11 in the last 4?We are scoring more tries per game without Turbo?(just more in the forwards),Sounds like a side that has adapted without its' main strike weapons.....

Point taken Smokin' but the issue I was alluding to was the fact that the backline is not scoring tries. We are just fortunate that the forwards have taken it upon themselves to take on the try scoring as well as making the ground.

Sure they have adapted, but then they have lost three of the past four games. And I did note that about the tries per match. But then we see that in the last 4 weeks we have played 2 out of 4 in the top 8 while in the first 6 games we played 4 out of 6 in the top 8. Yet, we scored in those first 6 games 95 points to 73 against, but in the last 4 games we scored 60 to 106 against
 

Shoe1

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We've spent so much time in this forum speculating about Hopoate & Schuster without really knowing what is happening in the squad. Maybe we should request the Sea Eagles media manager to ask Des a question something like "If there are further injuries in the backs, would you consider bringing Hopoate or Schuster into the team?"
Exactly, has anyone been to training to see if they are training in position even yet?
 

Smokin Joe

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Point taken Smokin' but the issue I was alluding to was the fact that the backline is not scoring tries. We are just fortunate that the forwards have taken it upon themselves to take on the try scoring as well as making the ground.

Sure they have adapted, but then they have lost three of the past four games. And I did note that about the tries per match. But then we see that in the last 4 weeks we have played 2 out of 4 in the top 8 while in the first 6 games we played 4 out of 6 in the top 8. Yet, we scored in those first 6 games 95 points to 73 against, but in the last 4 games we scored 60 to 106 against
True,but if Garrick had not dropped off his goalkicking our "for" points might be another 16(semantics).But anyway, as I mentioned just previously,does that mean these guys are more important defensively?I doubt rookies are going to help our defense(young guys often have the opposite effect).I may be wrong but all the desire to have the youg uns' in is because we need more tries?I accept that if we score more points it may reduce our against points but rookies tend to leak a few points....
 

SeaEagleRock8

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Its better when forwards score as they are often closer to the posts. Bloody wingers score about 5 cm from the touchline ;)
 

Bearfax

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True,but if Garrick had not dropped off his goalkicking our "for" points might be another 16(semantics).But anyway, as I mentioned just previously,does that mean these guys are more important defensively?I doubt rookies are going to help our defense(young guys often have the opposite effect).I may be wrong but all the desire to have the youg uns' in is because we need more tries?I accept that if we score more points it may reduce our against points but rookies tend to leak a few points....

Thats the balance you have to achieve, defence vs attack. Yes younger players leak more points, but such payers as we have waiting probably score more. In the long run though, if they are brought through early, they will probably gradually improve their defence and probably their attack as well. Some of the present group of players just dont seem to have the skills needed to take Manly to the next level. We would never have achieved what we had in the past without risking the introduction of Foran, DCE, Brett Stewart, Watmough, Matai and having a master organiser in Lyon, and Lyons before him. Foran started firsts at 19, Watmough 18, Matai 19, Stewart 18 and DCE 22 (but only because he had to wait behind Hodkinson). Bradman Best is 18 and staring. Ponga was 18 when he started in firsts. I suspect Hoppa is 19, Schuster 18.
 

Bearfax

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ps. And note Manly's fine win again had no tries scored outside 5/8. Yes Manly has adapted, but will they find Penrith a bridge too far. I guess we'll see. Great that they won though.
 

SeaEagleRock8

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I'm a big Tafua fan but would like to see A. Hoppa picked in his wing spot next week vs Panthers. Hoppa apparently is extremely strong, so wouldn't lose much in hit-ups, and might add a bit more zip.
 

BOZO

The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
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Has Albert signed with the dogs ?
 

Smokin Joe

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Thats the balance you have to achieve, defence vs attack. Yes younger players leak more points, but such payers as we have waiting probably score more. In the long run though, if they are brought through early, they will probably gradually improve their defence and probably their attack as well. Some of the present group of players just dont seem to have the skills needed to take Manly to the next level. We would never have achieved what we had in the past without risking the introduction of Foran, DCE, Brett Stewart, Watmough, Matai and having a master organiser in Lyon, and Lyons before him. Foran started firsts at 19, Watmough 18, Matai 19, Stewart 18 and DCE 22 (but only because he had to wait behind Hodkinson). Bradman Best is 18 and staring. Ponga was 18 when he started in firsts. I suspect Hoppa is 19, Schuster 18.
Bear,the Stewarts,Watmough and Matai were brought in after the Northern Eagles fiasco as we had no option,as you said about DCE we had no option as we lost Hodkinson after we thought we had him re-signed.We are not so desperate now,if we brought up a lot of kids and said ok lets wait a couple of years to get the rewards,this place would go into meltdown if we had regular losses and the club would not be as patient as the Broncos have been with Seibold(our young guys apart from Foran were not guaranteed superstars in the making).
As Graham Lowe said long ago,you tell the fans we are re-building and they and the sponsors etc..have the right to say ok we will pay our cash when you think you are ready,see you next year.
For me,re-building is bull****,you go all out every year,as you said previously,no excuses,we are results driven now( I think you said if things are not working then we have to do something immediately to rectify it,if the kids are not working out then do you then expect it to be ok to accept that?),are you now expecting fans to accept losses due to us re-building and the kids are still learning?
 

Dion Johnson

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Personally I think he will follow the money and his brother
Hope not mate, he is a talent from the games I have watched him play.

Would be a shame to loose him, but it is a business and it is a balancing act for the recruitment team based on the overwhelming talent coming through our system now.
 
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Bearfax

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Bear,the Stewarts,Watmough and Matai were brought in after the Northern Eagles fiasco as we had no option,as you said about DCE we had no option as we lost Hodkinson after we thought we had him re-signed.We are not so desperate now,if we brought up a lot of kids and said ok lets wait a couple of years to get the rewards,this place would go into meltdown if we had regular losses and the club would not be as patient as the Broncos have been with Seibold(our young guys apart from Foran were not guaranteed superstars in the making).
As Graham Lowe said long ago,you tell the fans we are re-building and they and the sponsors etc..have the right to say ok we will pay our cash when you think you are ready,see you next year.
For me,re-building is bull****,you go all out every year,as you said previously,no excuses,we are results driven now( I think you said if things are not working then we have to do something immediately to rectify it,if the kids are not working out then do you then expect it to be ok to accept that?),are you now expecting fans to accept losses due to us re-building and the kids are still learning?

Smokin' the players you identified coming through had little to do with the fall out of Northern Eagles. In fact Watmough played for the Northern Eagles. Certainly Brett Stewart came in the year after Manly was reformed, but really didnt start for over a year later. Matai came through three years later, Lyon five years later, Foran seven years later and Cherry Evans nine years later.

Each player came through at different stages of Manly's period after Northern eagles 2000-2002. Matai came in on 2005, the year following when they came 13th. In 2005 they came in at 8th. Foran came in in 2009, the year after they won the premiership and they came in 5th, but that was the year when Stewart was out for most of the season. Daly Cherry Evans came in 2011, the year after they came 8th and of course he and Foran added the impact needed and won the premiership that year, Cherry Evans first year. A contributing factor with each year these kids entered, they made a significant impact, especially in 2011. Manly succeeded during the period 2003-2011 because they were always adding quality to their ranks and bringing up the young future stars. Only DCE had to bide his time, and his impact was immediate.
 

Smokin Joe

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Smokin' the players you identified coming through had little to do with the fall out of Northern Eagles. In fact Watmough played for the Northern Eagles. Certainly Brett Stewart came in the year after Manly was reformed, but really didnt start for over a year later. Matai came through three years later, Lyon five years later, Foran seven years later and Cherry Evans nine years later.

Each player came through at different stages of Manly's period after Northern eagles 2000-2002. Matai came in on 2005, the year following when they came 13th. In 2005 they came in at 8th. Foran came in in 2009, the year after they won the premiership and they came in 5th, but that was the year when Stewart was out for most of the season. Daly Cherry Evans came in 2011, the year after they came 8th and of course he and Foran added the impact needed and won the premiership that year, Cherry Evans first year. A contributing factor with each year these kids entered, they made a significant impact, especially in 2011. Manly succeeded during the period 2003-2011 because they were always adding quality to their ranks and bringing up the young future stars. Only DCE had to bide his time, and his impact was immediate.
Point taken,but over the last couple of years we have blooded Paseka,Keppie,Fainu,Olakau'atu,Waddell,Cust,Funa,Garrick(maybe others I don't remember)We are adding guys regularly.
What about the question I asked if we are not winning games and are bringing through a bunch of youngsters at the same time,would you accept the losses or demand more changes to fix it immediately?
The point I was getting about with the previous players was that we were struggling at the time and had little choice to play some kids etc....Des inherited a team with no players apart from a few locals and juniors and some guys willing to leave their clubs for an opportunity(Westley,Long,Shipway etc...)I don't believe we are in the same boat now.
 

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