If by worm you mean snake & if by snake you mean penis & if by penis you mean Dick ,then yes you're right ,he is a dick.
The Kieran Forum
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Wombat Legacy
Bencher
Not selective old mate, just my opinion. I think Choc was, ...well, how do you put it, a little less respectful. Great player, local junior-he will regret the way he departed. Bullying Toovey didn't show much class either.
Anyway, the debates will rage on
HoldenV8
Journey Man
Yeah but the Dalai has taken Foran's game to that next level......
HappilyManly
Journey Man
Last week Fiz is quoted as saying that he needs footy now, more than ever
Nobody knows for sure anymore
That is not cynical @Woodsie
If he is battling a mental condition then focussing on treatment might be best in the immediate term.
At some stage of recovery (hopefully) his re-integration into the workforce would presumably have to occur.
I am merely a lay person when it comes to mental health (and you can take some of my comments as devils advocate) but the scenario you pose would not prove he was never ill ... yet you imply that it would!
If he is battling a mental condition then focussing on treatment might be best in the immediate term.
At some stage of recovery (hopefully) his re-integration into the workforce would presumably have to occur.
I am merely a lay person when it comes to mental health (and you can take some of my comments as devils advocate) but the scenario you pose would not prove he was never ill ... yet you imply that it would!
And yet we had the health care professional at the rehab in Brisbane release him to play stating that what he needed was to play footy.
My comment was meant to be more of an observation than an informed opinion. It just seems that convenience and vested interest plays a part in the treatment of some patients.
Wombat Legacy
Bencher
This is indeed a debate that nobody can win. The world has definitely become soft, but showing some kindness and care to human beings in the world who are struggling....well that would be nice. Kicking people in the guts when they are down and making mistakes, is easy. Helping them up off the canvas is more my go. Kieran has been spoilt by all the adulation during his career. As soon as he got some negativity pointed toward him, he apparently fell to pieces. Sad but true in this selfish world.
There is a gulf between how Jamie handled his hard times to how Kieran has handled his.
I agree Woodsie, and also don't entirely disagree with Susan's posts above (except the bit about good and bad people), the problem is the suspicion with which revelations about mental health issues are commonly met acts to deter sufferers from reporting it and seeking treatment.
Obviously the cost of this failure is at times catastrophic.
Its the old 'harden up, you weakling' line, or variations of it.
Obviously the cost of this failure is at times catastrophic.
Its the old 'harden up, you weakling' line, or variations of it.
This is a view I find laughable and very hard to understand, though it's probably not a topic for this forum!
It is a case of the genuine are poorly received and the opportunists pampered.
If we are to err, I guess as a society we need to give a benefit of doubt and err on the side of compassion.
Wombat Legacy
Bencher
Laugh away mate, keep laughing
BTW, I hate people that pull a snippet out of a post and then try to gain traction for their own agenda.
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Woodsie I don't see why we have to err on any side.
But why allege or infer that someone is not suffering a 'real' mental condition, when it is announced that they are? (Not saying you did that)
But why allege or infer that someone is not suffering a 'real' mental condition, when it is announced that they are? (Not saying you did that)
If you can quarantee every person who stuffs up their lives by poor choices is a sufferer of a diagnosable mental illness then you are correct we would have no need to err.
Does Jamil hopoate rate a mental health defence?
Sorry SERB, whilst I will agree there are many genuine cases, I believe the convenience of misdiagnosis too great, and many illnesses are directed and produced by managers and spin doctors. I also suspect the growing "REHAB" industry complicate.
with reference to your comment, "But why allege or infer that someone is not suffering a 'real' mental condition, when it is announced that they are?" It would depend entirely on who is making the announcement.
If it was a doctor at a recognised mental health hospital, I wouldn't question it, but when it is announced by their coach or manager and the "rehab" facility is in Thailand, my cynicism is piqued.
Wombat Legacy
Bencher
Haha, saying the world has definitely gone soft is scarcely 'a snippet'! It is a huge statement about ... all of us?Laugh away mate, keep laughing
BTW, I hate people that pull a snippet out of a post and then try to gain traction for their own agenda.
In any event, if it wasn't relevant to your main point, all I can say is you are the one who chose to include it.
As for my agenda, my agenda is that some people actually post comments here that interest me enough to bother to respond. I thought that was the point of the forums, really.
The reality, and it is a sad one, no matter what happens in life regarding social acceptance, rules, etiquette whatever, there will be a percentage of people that will exploit it. (Pls don't mistake this as a shot at Foran because it's not its a general observation).
You have rules in rugby league, people will look to exploit it. You have rules in the banking world and people will look to exploit it. Unfortunately with mental conditions the same will apply. I do believe some see it as a get out of jail free card, and use it to excuse behaviour which is unacceptable, and when it's revealed we can have no come back. We have to accept they have issues and live with it. But at what point do you just say someone is a d@@@head and stop excusing their behaviour?
The big issue with mental health is it's obviously not as easy as saying 'look they broke the rules here or there like in banking or sport' it's more subjective and at times hard for the ordinary person to see or understand.
i will admit I always look at something with a dose of sceptism and an attitude of 'ok prove it'. With mental health it's not like pulling numbers off a blood count and pointing to the evidence.
I do wish Kieran an whoever is suffering from issues good luck, but it also doesn't mean my mind is wiped either.
You have rules in rugby league, people will look to exploit it. You have rules in the banking world and people will look to exploit it. Unfortunately with mental conditions the same will apply. I do believe some see it as a get out of jail free card, and use it to excuse behaviour which is unacceptable, and when it's revealed we can have no come back. We have to accept they have issues and live with it. But at what point do you just say someone is a d@@@head and stop excusing their behaviour?
The big issue with mental health is it's obviously not as easy as saying 'look they broke the rules here or there like in banking or sport' it's more subjective and at times hard for the ordinary person to see or understand.
i will admit I always look at something with a dose of sceptism and an attitude of 'ok prove it'. With mental health it's not like pulling numbers off a blood count and pointing to the evidence.
I do wish Kieran an whoever is suffering from issues good luck, but it also doesn't mean my mind is wiped either.
Doctors don't usually give press conferences about their patient's confidential health information, in my experience!
Obviously not, he was sent to jail!
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