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The day we brought a PENN to a gunfight

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Wombat Legacy, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. Wombat Legacy

    Wombat Legacy Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I stay out of faction politics as much as I can. Just a dyed in the wool supporter of the Mighty Manly Sea Eagles.
    Ever since we re-emerged as a powerhouse in the modern NRL, we have hit hurdle after hurdle when trying to establish a professionally run club administration. Some of those close to the scenes have nominated several protagonists, not least one of the club's great patriarchs, Peter Peters. Zorba went from being a positive to a negative about the time that Mr Penn and his fiscal giants stepped up to the plate with cash to re-invigorate our mighty club. Power corrupts as they say...
    So what really happened. 2011 saw the club glide to a premiership win under Des Hasler, and we were truly soaring. The envy of the league "The Benchmark"
    But it quickly unraveled in the back rooms, where dodgy negotiations were taking place amongst the power brokers of the club.
    Fact is, the Penn's emerged when all the hard work was done. They eyed off the club as a commercial proposition and have treated it like one ever since. Whilst they may have marvelous business acumen, they fail substantially in recognition of the heartbeat of it's fanbase and past loyal servants. The cultural and tribal jingoism that drives the club forward trying to emulate those great sides of the 70's, 80's &90's.
    So here we are now, a club spiralling back to where most fan supporter bases love us being...also rans.
    This thread is not about uncovering the truth of exactly what happened. I don't really care who is to blame, because the fruits of all that mis management are now bearing down upon us. Am I being too negative?...perhaps. But when I see a trend festering in, my first reaction is to address the core ingredients for the failure of the model.
    There are too many Penn clan snouts in the trough. The results they have achieved since 2013 are mediocre. My belief is they were still surfing a successful legacy Des, Max and co created back in 2005-6. The playing squad were united and happy. Unfortunately success can breed major ego's in sport, and it seems Des's departure fuelled a grab for power by the playing group. Who would really know.
    It is not working, and the lethargy displayed by the players from about 2014 surely franks my comments.
    Sell up Penn, and put the club back in the hands of someone who can stop the rot and re-float this sinking ship. It has been spectacularly unsuccessful, the infighting and leaking have surely been testament to that fact.
    Keen for you fans to make a balanced comment. Forget about the nitty gritty details here, we will probably never understand what brought us to this time and place.
    But is it time for Penn to fall on his sword?...or is the Penn truly mightier than the sword!
     
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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  2. Lyonstomenzies

    Lyonstomenzies Well-Known Member

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  3. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Hasler knew what was happening when he bailed out.

    Left the club with no choice, and as the quality man he is, Toovey stepped up and kept the side winning.

    When tough decisions were needed they hung Tooves out to dry. Only because he was not able to fit the team under the cap. And all because the club and Des had back ended contracts.

    Players and admin further divided, and we are now the Manly Bears, a real laughing stock, thankfully the eels are around.
     
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  4. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I doubt the club will recover from what has happened.

    It is possible for teams to go 40 years without success (see Souths and Cronulla) and that is now a real possibility.

    History tells us we are strong and bounced back from the early 2000's adversity caused by Super League.

    Can we do it again?

    Highly unlikely, hope I am wrong.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  5. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    The problem we face, since the purge of 2015, is that no player feels part of the Club. The 'tap' is just around the corner and past commitment to Manly is irrelevant.:cool:

    Player Agents are busy constantly renegotiating 3year deals for Manly players and distracting their Clients.
    The TRed disappearing act is testiment to the fact that Manly is a transit lounge now. I know a lot of Fans were upset that Manly moved him on in the background :mad:

    Hard to build a winning culture when we don't give players job security @:cool:

    It is the Northern Eagles 2.0 and will take a good few years to engage the Manly Community (aka Irrelevants) :(
     
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  6. ricardo

    ricardo Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of when I was on my Ps I would notice other P platers and there was a smoking hot blonde P plate chick next to me with number plate NIS123 (numbers intentionally incorrect).

    PNIS.

    I had a chuckle.
     
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  7. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    We agree on 99.99999% of occasions , but I disagree about the " can we do it again" deal, and the answer I'm thinking is yes we can!!

    The Penn's need success, if they don't have it ( and soon) they'll walk away and we will be like Newcastle, owned by the NRL ( until the next TV deal at which point they'd relocate the licence).

    The Penns are very savvy business people , they know success will mean a profit , so in spite of all the **** I believe it will happen.

    I know I bang on BUT this is year 1 of 5, have patience it WILL happen!!
     
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  8. JenEagle

    JenEagle Well-Known Member

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    I am very worried that the Penns will walk away.

    I am not being critical because I think it is a very tough job running a NRL club however so far their two year stint with the sole ownership they wanted has been a disaster.

    I am concerned that they will say this is all too hard and walk away and then we will be either at the mercy of another private owner or we could fold or be relocated. Some of my mates have started calling us the Bears already.

    Anyway hopefully this is just a setback and next year we bounce back and start climbing the ladder again.
     
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  9. lsz

    lsz Well-Known Member Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Considering the next tv deal will fund the salary cap (and then some) why would they walk away?
    Thanks to the increased grant NRL clubs, if they keep their off field costs down, are heading towards a profitable business.
    Considering the club is not far off break even or better at the moment I just can not see it happen
     
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  10. Bearfax

    Bearfax Well-Known Member

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    Mark, I truly hope you're right. The Penn's need to show the same business nous they show in their other endeavours. First issue is its not personal, never should be in business. For that reason they showed a distinct lapse in that business nous when they pushed out Toovey, Warwick, the existing training staff etc. I dont know what got into their head but they seem to reward mediocrity and punish success. I just cant understand that kind of childish behaviour in business. I hope someone gives them a good kick in the head to wake them up.
     
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  11. Loobs

    Loobs I am not really Scott Penn Premium Member

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    It's been a disaster on field but membership record and a lot of sponno dollars even if CoCo Joy are scumbags means they're doing something right. Not to mention they got the money for Brookie finally.

    As far as on field - we needed a purge. Once the purge is complete, we'll be back. You can't overhaul a roster completely in one season. Last year our pack was garbage but our backs kept us thereabouts. This year we're still carrying a lot of deadweight forwards and our star older backs turned 100 overnight. The northern beaches are still a place people want to live and play footy for. That hasn't changed.

    Half empty/half full.
     
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  12. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    I truly hope I am too!!

    My comments were made purely on the basis of the Penns not being dumb ( in a business sense).

    This revenge crap is virtually over , the FC will keep badgering them but in reality it's only reason to exist now is the colours / name as they have no real say at board level.

    And as @Isz quite correctly says when the new TV deal comes in (2018) every club can have their costs covered so there's no reason with memberships / merchandise / ticket sales that they can't turn in a profit, and let's not think they don't know that.

    There's no doubt until we've had the full " washout" that the new culture won't start to build, but by 2018 that should be over ( possibly even as early as 2017).

    I'm not suggesting instant success and 2017 might only be a fraction better than 2016, but we will be back , you can bet on it!!
     
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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  13. ricardo

    ricardo Well-Known Member

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    Like a wise man used to say "Foran is temporary, class is permanent"

    At least that's what I thought he said.
     
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  14. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Breakeven ??? You are assuming that the million dollar Coco Joy cheque is in the mail :cool:
    The stigma of match fixing may also prevent a new major sponsor comming onboard from 2017 :(

    The Franchise had a 1.5million shortfall in 2015 with the 1 million Kaspersky money.

    2016 loss must make the Franchise Owners review their exposure @:cool:
     
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  15. lsz

    lsz Well-Known Member Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    2015 loss was primarily due to contract pay outs (their own fault etc)
    Dependent on coco joy the overall position was meant to be the strongest in years. Also , considering the increase in rev from the new Tv deal , there is no way they mind taking a small hit (small for them)

    For mind there are many things to be worried about but the pen family will not "leave" the club. Worst case someone else will buy it....just remember this is not the arl, or nswrl, we are in a new era when clubs will actually start to make money
     
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  16. Budgewoi Eagle

    Budgewoi Eagle In for the long haul. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I would like the Penns to sell.
    Then again, I'd like to buy the Mighty Manly Sea Eagles. But that ain't never gonna happen.
     
  17. Loobs

    Loobs I am not really Scott Penn Premium Member

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    I'm no accountant but if the cheque is not in the mail, don't we get to out CoCo Joy into administration and at worst get zero cash but a few slabs of coconut water out of them? Money for jam!
     
  18. Harvies elbow

    Harvies elbow Well-Known Member

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    A few years ago:
    Zorba to the Penn's " Boys buy the club. Doesn't matter if you've got no idea what you've bought, leave the running of it to me".
    So Zorba says " Bonzo, my in-laws bought you a club to run, but no baggage, except me, gotta sack Tooves ".
    Bonzo says " Gus, I need a coach, what have you got. "
    Gus says " Bonzo me ol'. Have I got a deal for you."
    Bonzo says " BARRETT !! What's he done??".
    Gus " Bonzo, it's not what he has done but what he WILL DO. Just buy him a sh*load of players he'll be right. Why I'll even chuck a couple in I got laying around the lot".
    And the rest is the history to date.
    Now in an almost record breaking slump, multiple injuries, no hope of the 8 and no bloody leagues club.
    We now have no one coaching that can teach the Manly culture and at the moment we'll have to pay overs for players because who would want to come here.
    Best scenario: Max gets a consortium together and rides back into town.
    Cue some sort of cowboy music.
     
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  19. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Pretty sure that CCJ is a $2 shelf company - no joy for their Creditors @:cool:
     
  20. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Georgallis is suing for his payout, so the hit in 2015 did not include all liabilities.

    The Owners have to finance 2015 - 2017 at multi million dollar losses, and the 2018 deal can't make up the previous years' hit to the bottomline @:cool:

    I don't believe in the NRL spin of Clubs being fully funded by the new TV deal.
    The uncontrolled player contract demands, together with the ever reducing quality player pool, will push the Sydney Clubs over the budgeted running costs :cool:

    But it's not my money, so let the wealthy indulge their fetishes :p
     
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