Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by ManlyBacker, May 11, 2005.
The rich get richer
The poor get the picture
Seems, as said on the news reports, that it is just a push to improve his own popularity.
I agree with MB on the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer but there are a couple of good things like....
-making it more difficult to get disability benefits (plenty of people rort that one)
-more encouragement for people to go and find work by getting those who have been sitting on their arse for a while and rorting the system to work for their money. It might make them reconsider their lazy outlook on life !
The new tax brackets are a flaming joke and have been made possible by the regressive GST.
Howards legacy is going to be very ugly.
Byso - your attitude disgusts me quite frankly.
Mata Bugger off, IÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢m in that high tax bracket and pay a heap of TAX subsidising all sorts. It's about time we get our tax's lower and they have since Labor got booted! If labor was in the 47% would still be at about $45k.
Good old Carrs doing a great job building toll roads......thats an extra $40/week I pay for roads that should be built by the NSW gov't.
The bombs never hit you when you're down so low ...(unless you are in Iraq)
Ah ah....ah ah.......ah.ah...
You wouldn't read about it.. !dance:
Byso, explain to me then why the government is abolishing progressive taxes whilst strengthening and entrenching regressive ones?
Or don't you give a toss about your fellow man?
Yeah I do, but I have been low paid as well and I know what it's like. When life was great during the Keating years
Those who pay TAX will be happy to pay less tax.
Um Byso, you pay less tax than those in the middle class. Want I should bring the stats with me some time eh?
Anyways there are more numbers to crunch than mere income tax. There are direct and indirect tax benefits. Most of these turn back totward those in the higher cash (and the absolute low) brackets.
It's more than just accounting you know. We have not only a lectuer in tax law, there is a student who lectures in Income Tax from an accounting and administrative perspective. He totally agrees. The GST is most certainly regressive (and sometimes empathy for other people does help y'know cause if you are ever in the crap, you'll want help too). But thats a matter of DUH. What has actually happened is that when including benefits etc, the taxation scale (instead of going up towards the higher end), it has an inverted U shape, so the middle earners pay more.
I've calculated that if Fluff & I decide to have a family one day... I'm I'm not earning above 80 grand it would be cheaper for me to stay at home. Or the other way round.
So it's not merely the tax brackets that make a difference. Yeah, sure, the rates come down... but where has the money come from to bring the rates down eh? Who's paid for the surplus???
Unfortunately I get taxed and I don't earn alot. But it's people like Fluff, his parents and my parents that get taxed like there is no tomorrow. And somehow, on top of all they pay, they have to afford a tomorrow.
On top of that, the second person in a working couple is heavily taxed. A person earning about 10 bucks an hour and gerts 30-50 grand a year makes about 3 bucks an hour... not including costs of childcare etc. It's plain not worth it. So while Libs are whinging that we are having a labor shortage, they are discouraging one person in every partnership from working. Where is the logic in that??
OK, so were worse off with the latest tax decrease............. :shock: !wall:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
OH THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY. FANCY HAVING TO PAY TAX HOPIUM.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
When you finish uni.... in 50 years time, i dare say you will be worth your fair share of income. Their for, warranting a 4000 tax cut from the year 2004. Then again, their may be a labour government in... meaning your paying $2000 a week for your house.
These lefty bleeding hearts prefer not to work than pay tax....they don't realise the more you earn the more tax you pay.
Do I feel bad....Hell no, I pay more in tax than what some of the low income earners earn.
Am I looking out for me and my family hell yeah.
We make decisions in life to what income you want to earn......If you don't like it, make those decisions to improve you're income or live with it.
Some cannot give credit were it's due.
I hear big Kev will "try" to block it......Looks like the lefties will enjoy following an opposition party for another 12 years :lol: :lol:
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed May 11 2005, 03:17PM ]</span>
Dude... did you just not listen?
The tax structure ensures an inverted U shape so that the middle earners pay more... not the higher earners.
Do you really want me to bring in all my tax stuff for you? Hmmmm?? I know I should try to put it as simply as possible... but I really doubt you will be understanding it. I've tried describing the shape... maybe I can put it this way. A teacher on $50,000 pays more in tax than a politician on $200,000 ok?
Put it this way, I'm paying for you to have a kid. And I beleive I'm earning about $16,000 per year...
Its people earning about $10,000 and under that get as many benefits as the very rich... which is incredibly stupid. That is WAAAAY under the poverty line.
And byso, the tax cuts come from somewhere, they will not reduce their revenue. Dude, before you make assumptions about the tax system... study it please? Figure out ACTUALLY what is going on eh?
I am in a privileged position. I'm in a uni surrounded by Liberal cronies... but they still see the tax system as unfair. Guess they are just more educated and enlightened than either of you guys.
We used to have a fair & equitable system. Now... it's regressed to the USA standard.
Look, I know you guys are selfish buggers, but there are people out there that care. Ok I don't have a family... yet... But I'm figuring out what is the best way to go about it.
Flip, what the bloody hell are you going on about? English please? 4000 tax cut...? What?
I just got my HECS statement back... having paid 10,000 off (after working full time & saving) I have... about... 45 grand to go.
Oh, and "choosing" how much you earn? LAUGHABLE! Cannot happen! How can you choose when you cannot afford the education you need, are not in a position for fair pay negotiation ... or when minimum wage goes down to 5 buck an hour, eh?
Something called market failure in that respect.
What can I say, I never went to UNI and may earn more than most of you're career students mates will ever earn.....Choices you make I guess..... I think you should live in a COMUNIST nation!
And i'm sure you and you're mates could teach me many things about tax and law. I don't profess to know everything, I'm just talking from gut instinct.
I agree were paying far too much TAX but I can suggest much less than if with a labor government.
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed May 11 2005, 04:08PM ]</span>
Ok well I know quite a few of my mates earning 60,000 already... and they have either just started their career or finish the degree this year. The again, they are either at uni or work. There is one guy I know who's just finished and he's on 100,000.
I'm just not interested in selling my soul. So I guess I'll pay more tax while defending causes that are beneficial to humankind. Hmmmm.... doesn't seem fair. But then, I was destined to be a middle earner. I care too much.
And I'm not a commie. I do not beleive in socialism and despise Marx.
There is a difference between equity and socialism ok? I'm saying, proportionately, it is the lower and middle earners that have more of their pay in tax... percentage wise that is.
I'm afraid your gut instinct is wrong. You have to wade through propaganda to get to the truth. That's the point of a law degree... nothing is taken at face value. You cannot laugh at the Labor propositions because you know nothing of them either. so um, the question is that since you admit you know very little about tax... why are you arguing with people who know more? !wall: Gut instinct, especially when it comes to policies, budgets & law means absolutely nothing and leads you wrong. These people are seasoned liars.
I've also been taught how to twist the truth. I just don't want to. Which is how law students can recognise what is actually going on. It's not just about listening to the proponents... ita about putting the policies to the test... applying it to categories of people.
It's true though, currently the rich are paying less tax then they would under a labor system. Under a labor govt the base takings will be changed - far more progressive system (that means the proportion paid by the higher earners will be higher... but then those living on the pverty line will be taxed less)... instead of the regressive or inverted-U we have now which, it is agreed by experts, is rather unfair. This ensures that there are fewer people willing to work and even less wishing to have a family (because that will prevent one partner from working - because of the costs and the amount of tax taken from asecond earners wage - effectively pushing women out of the labor market). Which is of concern as the Libs are trying to encourage a larger birth rate.
So um yeah... But you know what really irks me, quite apart from absolute selfishness? It's that the money for the medicare levy (which people in the 20,000-30,000 tax bracket pay quite alot more for) and the HECS money do not go to medicare or unis... it goes into general revenue... and less money than what is collected goes back to the institutions it is meant to be supporting.
So, while the fact is YOUR paying less tax (well, you are if you are earning over 70-60,000... but if you are on 50,000 then no, you are not)... those that connot afford it are paying MORE. In fact that Aussie people are paying more overall. Again, where else are they getting the surplus from? It doesn't magically appear you know... The libs did not reduce overall tax intake... just increased it for the lower income earners... Please don't confuse your situation with everyone else's... the average wage is 50,000... they are paying huge amounts. Just cause your not doesn't mean the amount of tax collected has gone down. According to my statistical data... its increased more than the population.
<span class='smallblacktext'>[ Edited Wed May 11 2005, 07:51PM ]</span>
Byso, do you realise you are now paying far more tax than you would have been in the Keating years? FAR MORE!!!
You will continue to pay more even after the next round of tax 'cuts'. Every transaction you make you are paying tax these days.
And when interest rates go up what will become of your tax cuts? Maybe you should ask Wheel and Ryan that one.
Hopium, You pay hecs now so what........many other have taken the sacrifice so they can lead a privileged life in the future (if they play there cards right) so I really don't care about you're bleating with that one. Hecs gives an opportunity for all to get a degree, hard yes, but all get there chance. If you struggle to make ends meet. Go back home.......If thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s not an option then the tax payer looks after that.............It's called sacrifice.
So when you earn enough cash to pay it of.....so you bloody should. You can tell me all you like about semantics but I haven't heard Labor come up with any better TAX ideas. So until then you wont be convincing me of anything.
But I'll say again......YES WE ARE PAYING WAY TOO MUCH TAX! But yesterdays budget was a good little boost......and yes I will be a lucky one getting the bulk of the savings.
Mata, Things are cheaper after the GST imo.........except for services generally privatised services done by the STATE gov't, car regos, Road tolls etc. Goods are DEFINATELY cheaper. Cars, clothes, food.
If you think wheel or Ryan know what happening with interest rates then thatÃƒÂ¢Ã¢Â‚Â¬Ã¢Â„Â¢s a joke..........I agree they "may" go up. Look how low they are. Haven't gone up the extent the lefties expected after the election though hey.
I am not going to waste my time replying. Yawn!
This is a smoke and mirrors job - fancy penalising mothers who stay at home deliberately. MAD!!!
Fancy breaking the Medicare safety net promise (not enough money) and then rewarding those on 100K and beyond.
I will significantly benefit due to the abolition of Super Surcharge but the Equity in this budget is ABSENT.
Howard and Costello are a joke!
Least there's a surplus :roll: .
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