Poll added - Sea Eagles Everyone in League jersey

[Top End Eagle]

Firstly let me say, I have ordered one of these jerseys. The first I have of any Manly Jersey since the Pepsi one I had as a sixteen year old in 1996. I ordered this one because it will be infamous. And because I'm able to virtue signal to everyone when I wear it. It is the ultimate uniform. I will put this garment on and walk anywhere and people will take one look and know. There is a human being who loves everyone. He has time for the ring stingers and the carpet munchers but he is a man of the people and a man of the Rugba League. What a man he is. What a brave sole to wear such a garment. And he is a man of the corporate gambling conglomerates and he is a man of the cheapest internet located short term stays. Bits most of all he is Manly.

 

[Snake]

Some of the anger and virtue signalling is what turns me off the ‘woke’ and progressive movements...there’s a bit of that going on here.

People should watch Ian Roberts today and take a leaf out of his book. His humility and willingness to accept the beliefs of the infamous 7, brought me tears and had a genuine impact on how I feel about inclusivity...so much more than seeing people angry and ranting and defensive.

watching and listening to him speak from heart, really highlighted how sad it is to think that others see him as less of a person. I’m glad Manly have gone with Rainbow , even if it means we lose a football game on the weekend.

 

[voicefromthehill]

I have tried to read through the angst on these posts and have found it sometimes constructive, sometimes destructive and some have been able to elucidate their view without causing offence to either side of the debate. My following is an observation only - so appreciate any response to be balanced.

I consider it this way. The gentlemen in question have conducted themselves well in representing this club. Aloaia made a great name for himself when he spoke of the violence amongst Polynesians. Some we were screaming for to be included in the team

All the while they privately held views based on their cultural or religious beliefs about what is referred to in this thread as the LGBTQ members of our society. They never attacked them, they never belittled or discriminated - just quietly and respectfully maintained their own view. Then some marketing boffin said this rainbow jersey is a great idea without consultation. Based on this they were then asked to make a stand for previously personally held beliefs....and are being pilloried for that, but for what? For standing by their previously privately held belief? They have never made a public spectacle of this, but now they have to as amongst their community they are being watched. I know this is fraught - but when you reflect what is their sin? Having a moral fortitude to say no and stand by what they believe.

Have they ever refused to take a photo with an LGBTQ supporter or child? Have they indeed sought to understand that before interacting with supporters and fans? No! So it is clear they can not approve of something and still treat people with dignity and respect

To draw parallel to the Swans v Saints round in the AFL is a long bow, both clubs sit smack bang in the middle of geographic areas in both states with a large community that identifies with he "Rainbow" flag, they have arranged their annual match both as an inclusive action and a marketing one - no one can deny that. This was a marketing idea that has backfired with our club

I hope I have posted in a non offensive way

 

[Eagle thru 'n' thru]

Firstly, let me say I'm proud that my club has been the first to come up with such an initiative. Promoting inclusiveness is to be commended. Note, that is not forcing an opinion or agenda on players, staff or fans...just a recognition the LGBTQ community and what they have contributed to our club, be it as players, staff or fans.

What I will say though is that it appears the club has handled this a little poorly. The religious and cultural beliefs of the Polynesian community are no secret and, with such a heavy presence in our club, I think it may have been constructive to ask if anyone in the squad had any significant issues with the proposal. While the players involved may well have issues homosexuality, I think the lack of consultation is what they have the biggest issue with. Any issues could have been raised, discussed and a solution of some description found. I'd suggest a session with Ian Roberts discussing some of the problems he encountered, both before and after 'coming out', would have been helpful in illustrating why the club feels this initiative is an important one. For what it's worth, I think this is still something that could be done even now. Again, that is not to force and agenda or opinion on anyone but merely to present a different viewpoint.

If some players still felt it would be a betrayal of their beliefs and/or culture to wear the jersey then perhaps their absence from the team could have been 'managed', eg I fully expected more players to be missing this week due to COVID, perhaps that could have been given as the 'official' reason. While I don't agree with the beliefs in question, it's not my, or anyone's place, to tell them they can't have them and I don't see a public lynching as being helpful, hence 'managing' any player absence. That being said, they may well hold their convictions so strongly that they're fine with having the reason for their absence as public knowledge, aware of the potential backlash.

I do feel the club has missed an opportunity to utilise Ian Roberts here. Most of the disagreements on here and social media seem to be around not the beliefs themselves, but their right to hold them. I actually believe most people on both sides of this argument think the belief that homosexuality is in same way wrong or immoral is an antiquated one and one that should change. Maybe having a session with Ian Roberts would educate them a little and perhaps result in them challenging those beliefs. Again, not a forcing of a opinion but more an education piece and providing tools to reflect on and challenge what they have been led to believe.

I'm sure not everyone will agree with some of the opinions in my post....and that's absolutely fine.

Imagine how a discussion between former homosexual that now holds christian beliefs and Ian Roberts. That's I'd like to see happen.

And when I think about it, that's one voice that's never heard on msm.....the voice of christians who were once gay but are now not...mmmm..interesting.

 

[voicefromthehill]

Interesting to see the provisional poll results.......

 

[pt73]

Manly jersey: Churches back boycott players

Religious leaders have supported the seven Manly players who boycotted wearing the Pride jersey, while the LGBTQ community is angry, frustrated and heartbroken.

www.smh.com.au

Churches back boycott players amid frustration, anger among pride community​

Reverend Dr Ma’afu Palu has never met the seven Manly players who chose to boycott Thursday’s game rather than wear a rainbow jersey that challenged their personal beliefs about sexuality.

But he’s proud of them. “Christianity takes a very strong root in our people,” said Palu, from the Tongan Evangelical Wesleyan Church in Greenacre. “Whatever the bible says is very authoritative to us. Personally, I’m very proud.”

When it told players to wear the jersey without consulting them, Manly unwittingly created the latest flashpoint in deepening tensions between some Australian religions and the mainstream community over sexuality and same-sex marriage.

A similar battle has been happening in schools, in politics and even inside the churches themselves as secular and progressive religious communities embrace sexual diversity – but the more theologically conservative, such as Palu, think it contradicts the bible.

Almost 50 per cent of National Rugby League players trace their heritage back to the Pacific Islands, where many people are actively Christian as a result of a significant push by missionaries in the past few centuries.

Reverend Hedley Fihaki, the National Chair of the Assembly of Confessing Congregations, said Christianity was “ingrained into our culture. It’s not just a matter of going to church on Sunday, it’s part of our DNA, it’s part of our culture, it is who we are.

“I think the club has no right to force their particular ideology on all the players. I am very proud of them for standing up against the strong push to embrace something that we cannot.”

The Anglican and Catholic Archbishops also weighed in. A spokesman for Catholic Archbishop Anthony Fisher said forcing a player to wear a jersey that contradicted their faith or values failed to demonstrate the inclusivity the club wanted to promote. “It has also created unnecessary hurt and division for all involved,” he said.

 

[ManlyTragic]

Firstly let me say, I have ordered one of these jerseys. The first I have of any Manly Jersey since the Pepsi one I had as a sixteen year old in 1996. I ordered this one because it will be infamous. And because I'm able to virtue signal to everyone when I wear it. It is the ultimate uniform. I will put this garment on and walk anywhere and people will take one look and know. There is a human being who loves everyone. He has time for the ring stingers and the carpet munchers but he is a man of the people and a man of the Rugba League. What a man he is. What a brave sole to wear such a garment. And he is a man of the corporate gambling conglomerates and he is a man of the cheapest internet located short term stays. Bits most of all he is Manly.

That’s great… and I respect that!

But some of us don’t want to be in the limelight. Some of us don’t want to make our views public whether they relate to homosexuality, religion or politics!
Some of us just want to watch a good game of footy on the weekend after a busy and stressful day at work.
That won’t happen this weekend as our best team will not be taking the field. We may miss out on the eight because of it!
How demotivating will that be for the players and the fans.
This is poor leadership by the club, as the late jack gibson said leadership starts in the front office….. no wonder we have had about 6 ceos in 6 years or so!

What at ballsup!!

Just sayin’

 

[The Wheel]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551884916329451521

 

[voicefromthehill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1551884916329451521

He will die on the concussion denialst hill

 

[MuzztheEagle]

I have tried to read through the angst on these posts and have found it sometimes constructive, sometimes destructive and some have been able to elucidate their view without causing offence to either side of the debate. My following is an observation only - so appreciate any response to be balanced.

I consider it this way. The gentlemen in question have conducted themselves well in representing this club. Aloaia made a great name for himself when he spoke of the violence amongst Polynesians. Some we were screaming for to be included in the team

All the while they privately held views based on their cultural or religious beliefs about what is referred to in this thread as the LGBTQ members of our society. They never attacked them, they never belittled or discriminated - just quietly and respectfully maintained their own view. Then some marketing boffin said this rainbow jersey is a great idea without consultation. Based on this they were then asked to make a stand for previously personally held beliefs....and are being pilloried for that, but for what? For standing by their previously privately held belief? They have never made a public spectacle of this, but now they have to as amongst their community they are being watched. I know this is fraught - but when you reflect what is their sin? Having a moral fortitude to say no and stand by what they believe.

Have they ever refused to take a photo with an LGBTQ supporter or child? Have they indeed sought to understand that before interacting with supporters and fans? No! So it is clear they can not approve of something and still treat people with dignity and respect

To draw parallel to the Swans v Saints round in the AFL is a long bow, both clubs sit smack bang in the middle of geographic areas in both states with a large community that identifies with he "Rainbow" flag, they have arranged their annual match both as an inclusive action and a marketing one - no one can deny that. This was a marketing idea that has backfired with our club

I hope I have posted in a non offensive way

This post has made my day...on a pretty poor one. And restored my faith in Silvertails.
I hope all Manly fans get a chance to read this (or something just as well put) and choose to treat those not playing on Thursday with the respect and dignity that they deserve.

 

[HoldenV8]

On one hand I can see where the players are coming from with their religious beliefs. On the other hand I also see their religions are totally against gambling, yet none of them have a problem with POINTS BET being across the front of their jumpers each game. None have a problem playing knowing that the TV broadcasters are showing pre and post game betting odds.

Yet the Pride Rainbow colours are offensive.....

To me, while I agree that the club messed up big time by not consulting the players over this, I also think the players are being very hypocritical given they boycott for this, yet gambling advertising gets a free pass.

 

[voicefromthehill]

On one hand I can see where the players are coming from with their religious beliefs. On the other hand I also see their religions are totally against gambling, yet none of them have a problem with POINTS BET being across the front of their jumpers each game. None have a problem playing knowing that the TV broadcasters are showing pre and post game betting odds.

Yet the Pride Rainbow colours are offensive.....

To me, while I agree that the club messed up big time by not consulting the players over this, I also think the players are being very hypocritical given they boycott for this, yet gambling advertising gets a free pass.

It is very hard for them to make a stand that is for sure, but their reasoning would be as such

They will be able to say there is no explicit mention of gambling within the Bible (only greed - which is a connective), still very rough wearing a Jersey that supports greed

Alcohol isn't a problem - being a drunkard is

And that then leads to the issue of contention - explicitly that is mentioned in the Bible. It is what put Israel Folau in a pickle when he spoke so forcefully and without consideration.

 

[HoldenV8]

Either way I think we've found the 7 whipping boys should this actually derail our season.....

Not to mention the hammering the club will get for this fiasco.

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

Those seven players shouldn’t feel guilty about letting the side down,like we were going to make the 8 anyway ffs we lost to the useless dragons regardless with 3 players out.

 

[simon64]

I have stayed out of this whole debate for 34 pages. Not because I don't have a view. Just because the whole fiasco just makes me sad. Are we really that unaccepting of one another ?

I cannot comprehend how people can claim to be Christians, which at it's core espouses love for your fellow man and yet look at another and believe him or her to be lesser than you because he or she happens to be gay. Whatever happened to only Jesus can judge me ?

Now, for what it's worth, it was a monumental stuff up from someone to not realise that this was going to be a sensitive issue for some and to make sure everyone understood the sentiment before committing to the pride jersey. Perhaps rainbow coloured corner posts would have been a better idea. The club would be demonstrating it's inclusive stance rather than with a jersey which makes it seem like a stance from each individual player.

I can't help but think a little less of these 7 players after they have shown a side to them that I can't agree with.

 

[voicefromthehill]

I have stayed out of this whole debate for 34 pages. Not because I don't have a view. Just because the whole fiasco just makes me sad. Are we really that unaccepting of one another ?

I cannot comprehend how people can claim to be Christians, which at it's core espouses love for your fellow man and yet look at another and believe him or her to be lesser than him because he or she happens to be gay. Whatever happened to only Jesus can judge me ?

Now, for what it's worth, it was a monumental stuff up from someone to not realise that this was going to be a sensitive issue for some and to make sure everyone understood the sentiment before committing to the pride jersey. Perhaps rainbow coloured corner posts would have been a better idea. The club would be demonstrating it's inclusive stance rather than with a jersey which makes it seem like a stance from each individual player.

I can't help but think a little less of these 7 players after they have shown a side to them that I can't agree with.

Are they judging anyone?

They are being asked to show a tacit acceptance of something (not someone) they morally object to (just trying to use the words to select their stance and not making a statement)
They haven't previously forced their beliefs on anyone, but by the actions of the marketing department they have had beliefs forced on them.

Again not trying to be controversial but trying to get some people to think about the double standard however abhorrent people may find it, if someone has a view contrary to yours - if they don't force it on you then we really have very little to get angry at them about, many find the view of these players abhorrent - but they didn't force it on us. To the contrary a position was forced on them, it takes a strong person to stand up for their beliefs irrespective of repercussions. They only made a stand after they had a position forced on them

 

[Lyonstomenzies]

Sexuality is nothing to be proud about, that is half the issue.

You obviously haven’t spent a lot of time with this community.

Most, if not all, have to have that moment in their life when the accept their sexuality. That moment can be difficult in some circumstances. Especially when people like the “narrow minded 7” are around still.

When they come to terms with their feelings, then yes, the should be PROUD of that fact.

 

[R3]

I am proud to have two hands that i did not create. You shouldn't be proud of something you are "born with" requiring no effort from yourself.

I see the George Carlin angle you're coming from “Pride should be reserved for something you achieve or obtain on your own, not something that happens by accident of birth."

Great comedian, great mind and good point...
However,
Whilst this applied perfectly well to nationalism, the context becomes tricky when referring to sexual identity. I tend to interpret the meaning of 'gay pride' from my many gay friends- that the term 'pride' has developed a broader meaning to entail 'not being ashamed', nor feeling the desire or responsibility to hide their true selves.
So the semantics of the word 'Pride' is going through some changes.
Change is good, Change is necessary.
I fully support this jersey and the people it represents, which is technically all of us, including the 7 players who wish to be excluded.
I'm saddened that they won't represent this club due to their cultural differences or religious beliefs but, they gift a debut to someone more flexible and open minded. That debutant may cement their spot in our team. Any player that sits out this game will have the rest of their lives to become enlightened. They will no doubt encounter people through out their lives who help them become more accepting. again, change has to start somewhere. Better late than never

Go Manly!

 

[QueefRichards]

Another thing that pisses me off about this is that no potential future coach of Manly- after seeing Hasler front the media himself - is going to look at Manly and think that management would have their back. I hope there is a succession plan in mind otherwise we are stuffed

 

[NYEagle]

I have stayed out of this whole debate for 34 pages. Not because I don't have a view. Just because the whole fiasco just makes me sad. Are we really that unaccepting of one another ?

I cannot comprehend how people can claim to be Christians, which at it's core espouses love for your fellow man and yet look at another and believe him or her to be lesser than you because he or she happens to be gay. Whatever happened to only Jesus can judge me ?

Now, for what it's worth, it was a monumental stuff up from someone to not realise that this was going to be a sensitive issue for some and to make sure everyone understood the sentiment before committing to the pride jersey. Perhaps rainbow coloured corner posts would have been a better idea. The club would be demonstrating it's inclusive stance rather than with a jersey which makes it seem like a stance from each individual player.

I can't help but think a little less of these 7 players after they have shown a side to them that I can't agree with.

Well said Simon.

The only punishment here is that all of the Manly club will have from the end of round 25 to have a good long think about all this, and some extra time to pray while they have a beer, a cigarette, and play the pokies.

I agree with you. I feel a little less about these players. Players like Saab and Schuster particularly who have done SFA for Manly this year standing down as professional footballers.

Thats soft. Sorry, that’s soft.

To me, the only things that can restore their dignity is to speak up and explain why they are doing this before the game starts, or muscle up and make the eight. That’s their job.

I suspect neither will happen, so I will turn off the TV after round 25, watch the 2008 grand final, and then sail off for a long off season.

NYEagle