Cartwright Goooorne

[Manly To Win!]

RE: Cartwright Goooorne - 4pm Presser

Henry is definitely the logical replacement

 

[bones]

Fix it dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry.

 

[Chip and Chase]

They have had some decent players over the years so lack of talent isn't teh real issue here. Maybe there is a bit of a culture problem in the place. They have signed some players with well known issues of late - Bird, Myles, Idris, Kelly, Taylor,

 

[dowdz]

Paul Kent reckons cap abusers are behind Cartwrights demise.



Paul Kent: Tougher salary cap rules could have saved John Cartwright’s job with Gold Coast Titans


GREATER forces were at work in John Cartwright’s resignation than whether he can coach or not, as is usually the case.

Cartwright is a victim of economics as much as football nous.

Few know, but the Gold Coast don’t spend up to the salary cap. The Titans can’t afford it.

This immediately puts Cartwright and his players at a disadvantage.

Rather than spend $300,000 on a good quality first grader, the club’s self-imposed spending limits means it is forced to fill that position with an $80,000 minimum wager who is good for taking his place when all other troops are down, so long as you don’t mind him letting in too many tries.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/paul-kent-tougher-salary-cap-rules-could-have-saved-john-cartwrights-job-with-gold-coast-titans/story-e6frf3ou-1227014654020?sv=34b27a2424ce69bbd9e2003a04df8c69#itm_s=foxs&itm_t=home&itm_c=content-3&itm_o=6&itm_l=Fox%20Feed%20-%20Kent:%20Cap%20abusers%20behind%20Carty%E2%80%99s%20demise

 

[COMMANDER]

These guys are a basket case and I wouldn't be surprised to see them fold at some point and the NRL issue another licence to another group on the Coast.

How lucky are they to have a stadium built for them in rugby league heartland but then fail so miserably as a business.

 

[HappilyManly]

This is now the third Franchise floundering on the Gold Coast.

Its time the NRL realized that, as a transient region, the Fan base is forever changing and unsustainable.

Relocate them to Logan or some other Brisbane area :idea:

Serious issues for the 2015 competition if Titans, Sharks and Raiders are all seen as uncompetitive from the start

 

[wombatgc]

Paul Kent reckons cap abusers are behind Cartwrights demise.

Not usually a fan of Kents, but he's spot on here.

"I believe some clubs are cheating the cap."

We all know it. And Kent comes up with at least some measures to stop (or at least curb) the farcical accounting tricks that are being used.
They (the Titans) were hamstrung by Searle, and his egotistical blinkered actions in the past. Another example of what happens when one person has the final say on money matters (eg Tinkler). As much as a board will fight and thrash (Manly win this one), it keeps massive ego's in check, and does its best to keep accountability.
I believe the Titans can be a force with Searle gone. The sponsors will come, and soon enough the new coach will be able to buy up like the rest.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

It's actually a very good reason why the Manly board is the way to go.

No one person making all the decisions!!

No one owner to go broke and leave the NRL holding the baby!!

It's just a pity the media don't see it that way .

 

[RiverEagle]

This is now the third Franchise floundering on the Gold Coast.

Its time the NRL realized that, as a transient region, the Fan base is forever changing and unsustainable.

Relocate them to Logan or some other Brisbane area :idea:

Serious issues for the 2015 competition if Titans, Sharks and Raiders are all seen as uncompetitive from the start

You can't necessarily blame transient crowds for their struggle.

Under-achieving on the field is the first problem up there.

Look at the Gold Coast Suns in the AFL.
They've rapidly gained a foothold and healthy following, starting with Gary Ablett and first-class operations; leading to competitive performances on-field.

Then a stable and probably growing fan-base.

As for the "cheating of the cap" by the Gold Coast...Just a few posts ago @dowdz quoted a story saying they "spend under the cap" and can't afford to fully flex the cheque-book.

Can't be both folks.

But a winning footy team on the Gold Coast would generate a better fan-base for the club; and vice versa.

 

[manlyfan76]

Paul Kent reckons cap abusers are behind Cartwrights demise.

Not usually a fan of Kents, but he's spot on here.

"I believe some clubs are cheating the cap."

We all know it. And Kent comes up with at least some measures to stop (or at least curb) the farcical accounting tricks that are being used.
They (the Titans) were hamstrung by Searle, and his egotistical blinkered actions in the past. Another example of what happens when one person has the final say on money matters (eg Tinkler). As much as a board will fight and thrash (Manly win this one), it keeps massive ego's in check, and does its best to keep accountability.
I believe the Titans can be a force with Searle gone. The sponsors will come, and soon enough the new coach will be able to buy up like the rest.

Their major sponsor left last week. iSelect.

 

[HappilyManly]

You can't necessarily blame transient crowds for their struggle.

My point is that as they have no history.

This is the third Club that the League have placed there and as soon as they start to lose, the Fans stop attending as they have no generational loyalty - like Parra for example.
Those Fans kept going, in spite of the Wooden Soon at the end of the Season, as it was their family Club.

The current struggle is the same as the two before - no attendances therefore no revenue. The retirees are migrants to the area, so have no attachment to the Team.
Maybe the Suns are more acceptable, as they are an AFL Team and a lot of people re-locate from Victoria to the GC

Seems like an exercise in futility

 

[manlyfan76]

You can't necessarily blame transient crowds for their struggle.

My point is that as they have no history.

This is the third Club that the League have placed there and as soon as they start to lose, the Fans stop attending as they have no generational loyalty - like Parra for example.
Those Fans kept going, in spite of the Wooden Soon at the end of the Season, as it was their family Club.

The current struggle is the same as the two before - no attendances therefore no revenue. The retirees are migrants to the area, so have no attachment to the Team.
Maybe the Suns are more acceptable, as they are an AFL Team and a lot of people re-locate from Victoria to the GC

Seems like an exercise in futility

Areas of the Gold Coast like Coomera are some of the fastest growing in the country, there is an article from the other day saying 14 new schools will have to be built within the next 18 months to service the massive growth. They can't all be retired people can they?
Crowd attendance compared to AFL? Name an AFL team who has less attendance than any Sydney club? The Suns have massive promotion up here all year long. Have they won any finals games yet?
What has hurt the Titans is a poor board led by Searle and the lack of help from the NRL like the expansion teams in AFL get.

Maybe the answer is to get Mat Rogers to stop selling AMWAY and use his "business" skills to run the titans.

 

[HappilyManly]

The above doesn't address the failure of the 2 previous franchises either. Matt Rogers wasn't playing for them in the nineties

The GC demographic is people who relocate from cooler climates or dearer locations.

The NRL have to step in to fix the recurring problem of Clubs folding up there.

 

[QldEagle01]

http://www.brothersnrl.com.au/

This would be an awesome fit, Brothers have clubs and connections right across Qld, they would have an amazing following in QLD.

 

[Stevo]

Another coach gets a bad wrap when his club can't spend the cap.

And people wonder why we have a salary cap.

 

[manlyfan76]

The above doesn't address the failure of the 2 previous franchises either. Matt Rogers wasn't playing for them in the nineties

The GC demographic is people who relocate from cooler climates or dearer locations.

The NRL have to step in to fix the recurring problem of Clubs folding up there.

Ok so Mat Rogers wasn't but they did get one Wally Lewis.- but I'm not going to defend previous Gold Coast clubs too much, even the one that died before the start of the season one year.
I really don't believe that the so called transient citizens are the reason for the clubs failure. If so then why where they getting good crowds in their first years? Was the population less transient then? why is the afl getting consistent crowds?
If the product was of a good standard gold coasters will turn up and there are plenty of events up here that people go to that prove the point.

---

And I didn't say that mat rogers playing for them was the reason they were more popular back then?

 

[Snake]

It could just be that the Gold Coast population prefer AFL to League? It seems that way in Melbourne. Further, the Titans crowds coincidentally dwindled with the arrival of the Suns. The battle was won by the AFL it seems.

Edit: on further reading it appears that the average home crowds of the two franchises are not too dissimilar, though this year has seen a spike for the Suns and a further decent for the Titans;

Suns
2014 - 17,237
2013 - 13,907
2012 - 13,645
2011 - 19,169

Titans
2014 - 13,382
2013 - 14,028
2012 - 14,405
2011 - 15,428
2010 - 17,877
2009 - 19,178
2008 - 21,618
2007 - 21,489

From those figures, it would seem that people's passion and interest wanes over time, possibly due to disillusionment with results. The new franchise was exciting to begin with, but each year more and more fans are turning away. 2010 saw a preliminary final appearance for the Titans, but the following year they won the spoon and have struggled to capture the imagination of the region ever since.

 

[RiverEagle]

You can't necessarily blame transient crowds for their struggle.

My point is that as they have no history.

This is the third Club that the League have placed there and as soon as they start to lose, the Fans stop attending as they have no generational loyalty - like Parra for example.
Those Fans kept going, in spite of the Wooden Soon at the end of the Season, as it was their family Club.

The current struggle is the same as the two before - no attendances therefore no revenue. The retirees are migrants to the area, so have no attachment to the Team.
Maybe the Suns are more acceptable, as they are an AFL Team and a lot of people re-locate from Victoria to the GC

Seems like an exercise in futility

Yes good points HM.

A club's history starts somewhere though, and if a team on the GC had early or swift success (like the Suns in AFL) the crowds would be better.

There's a healthy league demographic in Southern QLD, in QLD full-stop.

But to get people interested, then excited, then ultimately hooked, you need a team to perform on the field to do it.

The AFL are streets ahead in establishing a brand in a city; and promoting and supporting that brand (team) without fail until there's a level of adoption and self-sufficiency.

We can discuss all the reasons why a team fails (from front-office to the quality of players on the roster, the coach, the history or lack of, the stadium etc. etc.) but any team that constantly turns it up and has losing streaks and seasons, is a lot harder to like let alone follow.

People stop going (to watch a team lose) and that happens in virtually every sport, especially ball-sports.

I don't know what the answer is for them...Whether Neil Henry can do better than Cartwright, or not. He said in the end the fault is his...

I think the players up there are equally to blame.

 

[HoldenV8]

This is now the third Franchise floundering on the Gold Coast.

Since 1987 there have actually been 8 teams started up there for national competitions spread across 5 sports (league, Aussie rules, soccer, basketball and baseball). Of those, two are still there (Titans and Suns) and one had to move to Brisbane (the Brisbane Bears) and eventually had to merge with a failed Melbourne based AFL team (Fitzroy) in order to not only survive but actually be competitive. The others died mostly because attendances were crap to the point where their owners couldn't afford it anymore (or in the case of baseball, the national competition (ABL) folded).

The average life span of a national competition team on the Gold Coast (not including the Titans or Suns who still live there) is only 7.5 years.

1987-1992 - Brisbane Bears (Aussie rules)
1988-1998 - Gold Coast Tweed Giants/Seagulls/Chargers (league)
1989-1999 - Gold Coast Clippers/Daikyo Dolphins/Gold Coast Cougers (baseball)
1990-1996 - Gold Coast Cougers/Rollers (basketball)
2007-present - Gold Coast Titans (league)
2007-2012 - Gold Coast Blaze (basketball)
2009-present - Gold Coast Suns (Aussie rules)
2009-2012 - Gold Coast United FC (soccer)

@HappilyManly is right, a lot (not all) of Gold Coast residents are retirees from around the country. And most of them would still support whatever team they have done for most of their lives before they even thought about retiring there. A life long Manly or Collingwood fan isn't suddenly going to become a Titans or Suns fan just because they live there. They may go to the odd game, but mostly will only attend games involving their club, and the way both the NRL and AFL are with so many teams playing, teams like Manly and Collingwood might only play there once every two or three years. Not good for bringing more people through the gates. Its a lot different to having a start-up team somewhere like Brisbane or Newcastle where the fans got behind their team from the start.

Both clubs will eventually have a core group of fans, probably made up of people who grew up on the GC. But it will take another 5-10 years before they start to see that in their attendances.

 

[The Who]

There needs to be competition in (and around) Brisbane for the Boncos. So a RL team on the Gold Coast is important. While I think there needs to be at least one more Brisbane club, the Titans are all we have at the moment.
The Titans have quite a good roster. They have had more than their share of injuries this season. I went to Skilled Stadium last year and watched them play well to beat us. They also had good marketing in the first few years and several shops selling Titans merchandise.
I hope they survive and I think they can eventually prosper.
As a player I know I would rather live/play on the Gold Coast than everywhere except Manly.