ASADA Going Shark Fishing

[Mark from Brisbane]

Just saw this on the Bronco Mail, set to lose their few sponsors.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/nrl/sponsors-set-to-bail-on-cronulla-sharks-if-found-guilty-of-doping-allegations/story-e6frep5x-1226592317239

 

[The Who]

The next Underbelly is unfolding before our very eyes.

This one will be called In-der-belly

 

[globaleagle]

So if 14 players don't play on Sunday we'll know who they are OR if they are fighting it they will run out anyway (unless stood down by the club).

Seems to me that if this has legs we'll know in about 48 hours.

As I did for the Storm Fans when they had their Premierships stripped and were playing for nought, I can only but feel bloody sorry for the Sharks fans, they, many of whom have forked out their hard earned to become members, do NOT deserve this.

So save your vitriol for pricks like Slothfield (who would be screaming at the top of his voice if this was Manly), he deserves everything we can chuck at him (saw a ripper on Facebook last night) but be considerate of the everyday Sharkie's fan, they do not deserve this ****e!!

well said Mark,I agree

WELL you could give me a like, haven't had one in a while!!

Your proportion of likes given to likes received is too low. That's the problem. WINK

Next up we will start doing TBH's!

To be Honest? gawd, to *tipsy* to know what TBH means.


"What have i become,
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
goes away
In the end"

 

[Fairy Bower]

http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/7684

Slothfield was on Ray Hadley's show this morning. This is the thrust of what he said;

*This weeks game will go-ahead
*6 players out of the 17 squad for this weeks game involved
*The players have untill tonight to accept a 6 month suspension but he doesn't think players will go that way.
*Peptides were not on the banned list in 2011 and nothing illegal has shown up in drug tests. He thinks the investigation is looking shaky as they are looking for quick scalps.
*Sharks play against Titans on the weekend that include Albert Kelly & Luke Douglass from the 2011 team. Slothfield says "have they been offered the 6 month deal as well?'
*Some players still consulted with Danks after he was sacked by Flanagan. Gallen was NOT one of them.

 

[manlyfan76]

well said Mark,I agree

WELL you could give me a like, haven't had one in a while!!

Your proportion of likes given to likes received is too low. That's the problem. WINK

Next up we will start doing TBH's!

To be Honest? gawd, to *tipsy* to know what TBH means.


"What have i become,
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
goes away
In the end"

C'Mon all the kids on Facebook are doing it.

 

[southsideeagle]

For the sharks players what is the difference between 6 and 12 months suspension? With such a upheaval what are the chances they will make semis? bugger all!
The NRL are in a tough situation .. I would love to be a "fly on the wall" at some of these meetings

 

[rmd]

Maybe some of the legal guys who post here, like Susan, can shed some light on this.

A club encourages players to use a product that is legal to consume, which then becomes illegal to consume.

Who has the duty of care to ensure players no longer consume the product?

The Sports Scientist or medical professional (who supplies the drugs)?
The clubs medical officers?
The coach?
The player's manager?
The player himself?

And please don't say 'all of the above' as while I would expect the Sports Scientist and the clubs medical officers to ultimately be responsible to advise of changes in ASADA or WADA laws, I don't realistically think that players would be trawling the WADA website to see if what they were taking yesterday, that was legal, is illegal today.

Given Dank was given the 'flick' by Givney from the Sharks, maybe the players were told not to accept substances provided by Dank, yet some continued to do so. This is merely my assumption, but if when Dank was sacked because of Givney's misgivings regarding the supplements being used and the Sharks and as a club, this information was not shared with the players, I can just see the players' managers on the phone to top QCs and a huge law suit ensuing.

However, the Sharks have been very cagey regarding this as they've apparently guaranteed meeting players payments while they're suspended, which, correct me if I am wrong, to me is almost an admission of guilt or lack of due care.

The same thing will occur at other clubs as well if Dank was supplying both supplements to players. Hopefully, Dank hadn't yet discovered these supplements while at Manly.

 

[The Who]

For the sharks players what is the difference between 6 and 12 months suspension? With such a upheaval what are the chances they will make semis? bugger all!
The NRL are in a tough situation .. I would love to be a "fly on the wall" at some of these meetings

I think they are talking about a two-year suspension if found guilty. But you are right. It's like the Police asking criminals to come forward so they can receive a lighter sentence.

 

[rmd]

For the sharks players what is the difference between 6 and 12 months suspension? With such a upheaval what are the chances they will make semis? bugger all!
The NRL are in a tough situation .. I would love to be a "fly on the wall" at some of these meetings

I think they are talking about a two-year suspension if found guilty. But you are right. It's like the Police asking criminals to come forward so they can receive a lighter sentence.

Yeah and if players are suspended, given they would have to pull up players into their NRL squad from the Reggies and NSW Cup to replace the suspended players, Ian Schubert will hit them with a salary cap breach!

 

[Fairy Bower]

However, the Sharks have been very cagey regarding this as they've apparently guaranteed meeting players payments while they're suspended, which, correct me if I am wrong, to me is almost an admission of guilt or lack of due care.

Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority guidelines prevent the payment to athletes suspended for drugs use

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/sharks-up-in-arms-with-former-trainer-20130306-2flrd.html#ixzz2Mp5eJxyN

 

[manlyfan76]

Maybe some of the legal guys who post here, like Susan, can shed some light on this.

A club encourages players to use a product that is legal to consume, which then becomes illegal to consume.

Who has the duty of care to ensure players no longer consume the product?

The Sports Scientist or medical professional (who supplies the drugs)?
The clubs medical officers?
The coach?
The player's manager?
The player himself?

And please don't say 'all of the above' as while I would expect the Sports Scientist and the clubs medical officers to ultimately be responsible to advise of changes in ASADA or WADA laws, I don't realistically think that players would be trawling the WADA website to see if what they were taking yesterday, that was legal, is illegal today.

Given Dank was given the 'flick' by Givney from the Sharks, maybe the players were told not to accept substances provided by Dank, yet some continued to do so. This is merely my assumption, but if when Dank was sacked because of Givney's misgivings regarding the supplements being used and the Sharks and as a club, this information was not shared with the players, I can just see the players' managers on the phone to top QCs and a huge law suit ensuing.

However, the Sharks have been very cagey regarding this as they've apparently guaranteed meeting players payments while they're suspended, which, correct me if I am wrong, to me is almost an admission of guilt or lack of due care.

The same thing will occur at other clubs as well if Dank was supplying both supplements to players. Hopefully, Dank hadn't yet discovered these supplements while at Manly.

WADA ASADA have a cover all clause that if something is not listed but it causes the same affect as a listed banned substance then it is not legal and it is 100% the individuals responsibility to only take legal supplements. So not knowing or not seeing a particular item on the banned list is no defense. Athletes should only take items on the approved list.

 

[Stevo]

well said Mark,I agree

WELL you could give me a like, haven't had one in a while!!

Your proportion of likes given to likes received is too low. That's the problem. WINK

Next up we will start doing TBH's!

To be Honest? gawd, to *tipsy* to know what TBH means.


"What have i become,
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know
goes away
In the end"

And you could have it all,
my empire of dirt.
I will bring you down.
I will make you hurt.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Get the feeling this is all building up to something stevo

Why? lol

Unfortunately I suspect Susan is on the money with all he said above. Not sure if it is the darkest day yet, but it is certainly looking very overcast at present.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Maybe some of the legal guys who post here, like Susan, can shed some light on this.

A club encourages players to use a product that is legal to consume, which then becomes illegal to consume.

Who has the duty of care to ensure players no longer consume the product?

The Sports Scientist or medical professional (who supplies the drugs)?
The clubs medical officers?
The coach?
The player's manager?
The player himself?

And please don't say 'all of the above' as while I would expect the Sports Scientist and the clubs medical officers to ultimately be responsible to advise of changes in ASADA or WADA laws, I don't realistically think that players would be trawling the WADA website to see if what they were taking yesterday, that was legal, is illegal today.

Given Dank was given the 'flick' by Givney from the Sharks, maybe the players were told not to accept substances provided by Dank, yet some continued to do so. This is merely my assumption, but if when Dank was sacked because of Givney's misgivings regarding the supplements being used and the Sharks and as a club, this information was not shared with the players, I can just see the players' managers on the phone to top QCs and a huge law suit ensuing.

However, the Sharks have been very cagey regarding this as they've apparently guaranteed meeting players payments while they're suspended, which, correct me if I am wrong, to me is almost an admission of guilt or lack of due care.

The same thing will occur at other clubs as well if Dank was supplying both supplements to players. Hopefully, Dank hadn't yet discovered these supplements while at Manly.

As far as WADA and ASADA are concerned final responsibility rests with the athlete. End of story.

I'd be pretty confident if that Cronulla terminated Dank's contract due to concerns regarding his methods they would have informed the player group. If players continued to see him outside of the clubs supervision then they are wholly responsible for their actions. Seems pretty cut and dried to me, unless the players can provide documentary evidence that the club was endorsing or encouraging the use of the product/s outside of the clubs training/medical umbrella.

 

[rmd]

However, the Sharks have been very cagey regarding this as they've apparently guaranteed meeting players payments while they're suspended, which, correct me if I am wrong, to me is almost an admission of guilt or lack of due care.

Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority guidelines prevent the payment to athletes suspended for drugs use

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/sharks-up-in-arms-with-former-trainer-20130306-2flrd.html#ixzz2Mp5eJxyN

This is just a huge mess and I really feel for the players and everyone who will become involved in some way. Unfortunately the players are going to bear the brunt of this, which in reality is because the clubs (or club staff) introduced them to the products with obvious assurances.

It's fair enough if a player is banned for knowingly using a banned substance (informed) but where they've been provided with a substance with the club's assurance, I just cannot see fault or ignorance on the players' part. Most of the players did not qualify to become doctors or lawyers and they rely completely on the advice of club management and their managers on a day to day basis.

Where Essendon players (with Dank's involvement) are different is because apparently the club provided them with written assurances that the substances were legal and the players then signed an agreement to use the substances on this basis. Clever....!

This could blow up big time for the NRL with the Players Association likely to take some sort of action if they believe the suspensions are unjust.

As for Elvin, apparently leaking to ASADA, I'm not sure the players at Parra are going to be too friendly with him, given some have good relationships with some of the Sharks players.

 

[susan]

In reply to RMD's question with regard to the actual taking of the substance it is a ""strict liability"" offence which means if the player ingested an illegal substance, knowingly or not,he is guilty and subject to a mandatory 2 year ban for first offence which can be lowered to 6 months if he co-operates.This is why it is hard to see how they cannot take the 6 months.

In relation to the sports scientists/doctors etc the player would retain his common law civil right to sue for negligence if he believes that the scientists etc performed his duty in a negligent fashion that caused him damage,although the fact he has been found guilty of doping would not help in terms of the contributory negligence which is inherent in negligence suits.That all sounds very nice but unless these scientists and doctors have a part time job robbing banks it is essentially a waste of time as their assets would be limited if multiple players were chasing them.

At a professional level If the scientists etc are part of a professional body they would usually be subject to penalties if they have not fulfilled the standards required by that body.In the case of a doctor this could have grave implications regarding his licence to practice if he was found to have knowingly prescribed banned substances.With a lot of these other blokes who are not medical practitioners,they often receive their qualifications via the same cornflakes packet your son get his footy cards in and their is no real consequence other than loss of reputation.This is why it is imperative to have these guys pass minimum standards of accreditation.

In relation to non guilty players who may have their livelihood effected by the actions of the guilty players (say the team folds) then it is also hard to see any real claim working for the same reasons as above.The club may be a target if they knowingly supplied the stuff but it would be very difficult and the club is basically broke already.

 

[The Who]

Agree. Many of these players are young. On current evidence I can't place any blame on them, although it appears that WADA will.
It's a real shame.
Is there any football happening soon, or should we be watching a medical soap opera on TV instead?

 

[rmd]

That makes a lot of sense C&C but, if they didn't advise the players, the Sharkies are in deep....

As you said, if the players were aware, then, ultimately, there's no difference to Lance Armstrong except that I doubt what they were taking was nearly as advantageous to performance.

Interestingly I was party to a discussion with a couple of beautiful younger ladies yesterday (rels) and they were discussing the issue and one of them, who had recently broken up with her boyfriend, said the reason why she did was because he was on 'roids' and couldn't get an ... (well you know). If this is the case, why the hell would you take the stuff?

 

[Hamster Huey]

So if 14 players don't play on Sunday we'll know who they are OR if they are fighting it they will run out anyway (unless stood down by the club).

Seems to me that if this has legs we'll know in about 48 hours.

As I did for the Storm Fans when they had their Premierships stripped and were playing for nought, I can only but feel bloody sorry for the Sharks fans, they, many of whom have forked out their hard earned to become members, do NOT deserve this.

So save your vitriol for pricks like Slothfield (who would be screaming at the top of his voice if this was Manly), he deserves everything we can chuck at him (saw a ripper on Facebook last night) but be considerate of the everyday Sharkie's fan, they do not deserve this ****e!!

well said Mark,I agree

WELL you could give me a like, haven't had one in a while!!

LikeSlut

 

[Stevo]

Well. We'll just wait and see i guess.

I reckon if players are stood down this weekend we'll know there is a problem. If they are not we'll know if ASADA is fishing.