(Womens Team) Discussion

[SeaEagleRock8]

Oh. So you also think there is no racism in the USA.
Because they passed the Civil Rights Act 70 years ago or something?
All righty then, all good, my mistake!

 

[Woodsie]

Oh. So you also think there is no racism in the USA.
Because they passed the Civil Rights Act 70 years ago or something?
All righty then, all good, my mistake!

So, again you are telling me what I think ....

And again, you seem to be having difficulty being able to differentiate between the existence of state sponsored systemic racism .... and the racism of individuals ....

Although I have travelled and lived extensively in the states, especially down south ... I can tell you for a fact, racism exists in many people, black and white alike ... however that is vastly different to having congress pass or support racist laws ... I can't speak for some of the State Legislatures ... but I would bet there are no racist laws at a federal level.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Ah, the good old Labour leader Arthur Caldwell's white Australia policy .... thank goodness the liberals threw that obnoxious policy in history's dustbin 50 years ago ....

By the way, the ALP support for White Australia is a permanent stain on its record but don't pretend it was an invention of Labor, it was introduced in 1901 shortly after federation.

the existence of state sponsored systemic racism ....

and why are you even talking about this? I didn't raise it. No-one has except you, and you only did to use it as a red herring.

 

[Woodsie]

and why are you even talking about this? I didn't raise it. No-one has except you, and you only did to use it as a red herring.

Because you inferred that racism was "the" culture of your country ... I assume you meant Australia and not your spiritual home in the Kremlin.

I'm racist, although I don't want to be. It's unrealistic to think I'm immune to the culture of my country. But maybe you're the exception that proves the rule.

You accused Australia, the state of, being racist ... and I am still waiting for you to enlighten us on which laws or policies of Australia lead you to make such a damning statement ..

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Because you inferred that racism was "the" culture of your country

Yes I said it's unrealistic to think I'm immune to the culture of my country. I've no reason to think my racism is innate, I can think of many ways, going back to my early schooling, early experiences of 'news' events etc etc, observation of people in my local area and how they were treated, that incline me to think it was learned.

You accused Australia, the state of, being racist

No, Australia the place

your spiritual home in the Kremlin.

I'm no fan of Putin, Stalin, or Xi Jinping, which you well know.
Does it add anything to the discussion for you to always throw up this childish crap?
Would it help if I toss up a line telling you to run back to Donald at Mar a Lago, or to go get some advice from Scomo over at Hillsong?
I'll give it a go if you think it would help.

 

[Woodsie]

Yes I said it's unrealistic to think I'm immune to the culture of my country. I've no reason to think my racism is innate, I can think of many ways, going back to my early schooling, early experiences of 'news' events etc etc, observation of people in my local area and how they were treated, that incline me to think it was learned.


No, Australia the place


I'm no fan of Putin, Stalin, or Xi Jinping, which you well know.
Does it add anything to the discussion for you to always throw up this childish crap?
Would it help if I toss up a line telling you to run back to Donald at Mar a Lago, or to go get some advice from Scomo over at Hillsong?
I'll give it a go if you think it would help.

All good comrade ... you seem to be very good at avoiding having to commit yourself to making the differentiation between racist individuals ... and a racist nation/state ...

So, 2 yes/no questions ... I'll even help out by answering the first one for you ..

1) do you believe there are racist individuals in Australia .. answer .. yes certainly.

2) do you believe Australia is a racist state/nation ... ???

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

yes
yes
We have a lot to do in terms of First Nations people before we could seriously claim otherwise. The alternative is to say they are on the bottom of our society by every measure ...because they deserve to be. And I can't accept that view.
Just my opinion of course.

By the way, I also believe the vast majority of people in this great land are really good-hearted and would not identify as racist at all. Each generation is a product of their environment and whatever culture and ideas are dominant at the time. I know my kids are more socially aware than I ever was and fingers crossed their kids will be even more so. Unfortunately history seems to progress on a 2 steps forward one step back system, so steady improvement is by no means assured... there's always a risk of going backwards and the current state of the world means we may be nearing one of those twists.

 

[Woodsie]

yes
yes
We have a lot to do in terms of First Nations people before we could seriously claim otherwise. The alternative is to say they are on the bottom of our society by every measure ...because they deserve to be. And I can't accept that view.
Just my opinion of course.

By the way, I also believe the vast majority of people in this great land are really good-hearted and would not identify as racist at all. Each generation is a product of their environment and whatever culture and ideas are dominant at the time. I know my kids are more socially aware than I ever was and fingers crossed their kids will be even more so. Unfortunately history seems to progress on a 2 steps forward one step back system, so steady improvement is by no means assured... there's always a risk of going backwards and the current state of the world means we may be nearing one of those twists.

I don't think you understand what racism is.

Stating that first nations peoples have a long way to go ... is not evidence of a racist government ... unless you can point to some racist policy that perpetuates this state or encourages it, or discriminates against them

... in fact I would say the exact opposite is the case.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

You're entitled to your opinion.
For what its worth I think the country is full of politicians judges leaders of business and also citizens at large who are adamant they are not racist. But as with Pauline Hanson, it's not whether you think of yourself as racist that matters, rather the proof is in the pudding.
We have a pudding where one racial group isn't getting much of the sweet stuff.

 

[Woodsie]

We have a pudding where one racial group isn't getting much of the sweet stuff.

Good grief, another broad sweeping statement without evidence ... please enlighten me as to which government payment, welfare, program, scheme plot or pudding .. that I am a beneficiary of ... that this un-named racial group isn't ..

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Good grief, another broad sweeping statement without evidence ... please enlighten me as to which government payment, welfare, program, scheme plot or pudding .. that I am a beneficiary of ... that this un-named racial group isn't ..

Good grief indeed. I'll assume I have expressed myself clumsily rather than that you are deliberately feigning ignorance.
Haven't got time to look up the latest figures, maybe tomorrow, so try googling Indigenous life expectancy, infant mortality, tertiary education, incarceration rate, or any of the many categories in which disadvantage may be revealed

But as an example - this from a govt report from 2017

Indigenous people over-represented in the child protection and justice systems​

In 2015-16, Indigenous children aged 0-17 received child protection services at a rate around 7 times that for non-Indigenous children, and they were 10 times as likely to be in out-of-home care.

While Indigenous Australians aged 10-17 account for less than 6% of all Australians of that age, on an average day in 2015-16:

• 48% of young people under youth justice supervision were Indigenous
• more than half (59%) of young people in youth detention were Indigenous.

As at 30 June 2016, over one-quarter (27%) of the total Australian prison population was Indigenous— meaning that the Indigenous age-standardised imprisonment rate was 13 times that for non-Indigenous Australians.

Australia's welfare 2017: in brief, Indigenous Australians

Australia@s welfare 2017: in brief presents highlights from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare@s 13th biennial report on the nation@s welfare, Australia@s welfare 2017.

www.aihw.gov.au

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

You may even have heard of the NRL supporting Closing the Gap? What on earth could that be about? Dunno, quite a mystery I guess.

 

[Ned]

You're entitled to your opinion.

SEER8

 

[NREagle]

Just watched the ABC documentary on Adam Goodes tonight. Some very well spoken indigenous leaders on there. Upsetting to see the way he was treated by so many members of the public, both high profile and otherwise.
Imagine having a passion for something since you were a young kid, working hard and making it to the top of your profession, and then walking away from the thing you've loved all your life because of the way you are treated as a result of the colour if your skin. It's heartbreaking.

 

[Woodsie]

Good grief indeed. I'll assume I have expressed myself clumsily rather than that you are deliberately feigning ignorance.
Haven't got time to look up the latest figures, maybe tomorrow, so try googling Indigenous life expectancy, infant mortality, tertiary education, incarceration rate, or any of the many categories in which disadvantage may be revealed

But as an example - this from a govt report from 2017

Indigenous people over-represented in the child protection and justice systems​

In 2015-16, Indigenous children aged 0-17 received child protection services at a rate around 7 times that for non-Indigenous children, and they were 10 times as likely to be in out-of-home care.

While Indigenous Australians aged 10-17 account for less than 6% of all Australians of that age, on an average day in 2015-16:

• 48% of young people under youth justice supervision were Indigenous
• more than half (59%) of young people in youth detention were Indigenous.

As at 30 June 2016, over one-quarter (27%) of the total Australian prison population was Indigenous— meaning that the Indigenous age-standardised imprisonment rate was 13 times that for non-Indigenous Australians.

Australia's welfare 2017: in brief, Indigenous Australians

Australia@s welfare 2017: in brief presents highlights from the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare@s 13th biennial report on the nation@s welfare, Australia@s welfare 2017.

www.aihw.gov.au

Can you please explain to me what that has to do with racism .... you need to look up a few definitions .... because you clearly do not know what racism is ...

You may even have heard of the NRL supporting Closing the Gap? What on earth could that be about? Dunno, quite a mystery I guess.

Again , nil to do with racism ... unless you want to say that the initiative will favour one group over another based on their race?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Can you please explain to me what that has to do with racism .... you need to look up a few definitions .... because you clearly do not know what racism is ...


Again , nil to do with racism ... unless you want to say that the initiative will favour one group over another based on their race?

Yep there are various definitions. We may be at cross purposes to some extent. I’m not talking about a formal apartheid system or current laws that discriminate directly.

More stuff like unconscious bias and institutional racism. It’s easy to miss if no-one points it out. (Or if you just don’t want to see it)

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Institutional racism - Racism. No Way!

A number of Australian states have hate speech laws which make hate speech a criminal or civil offence. Freedom of speech exists alongside freedom from discrimination...

racismnoway.com.au

Institutional racism may be particularly damaging for minority groups and further restrict their access to services and participation in society.

The Australian Bureau of Statistics has gathered data on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander deaths and non-Indigenous deaths by age, and sex:

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

What is unconscious bias?

Unconscious biases are the learned stereotypes about certain groups of people that are formed outside of conscious awareness. They are automatic, unintentional, deeply engrained in our beliefs, universal and have the ability to affect our behaviour. Unconscious bias can be favourable or unfavourable attitudes which form the basis of positive or negative impressions of others. Australian Human Rights Commission

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Questions & context

Racism. It Stops With Me is a national campaign that provides tools and resources to help people and organisations learn about racism and take action to create change. The campaign invites us to ask ourselves important questions about the role of racism in shaping society, the way we see...

itstopswithme.humanrights.gov.au

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

@Woodsie there's heaps of studies and info about this kind of discrimination.

My post to @Technical Coach that you jumped in on explained that I didn't call him racist, in part because I think in a country like ours its all a matter of degree. But he has been so focussed on repudiating the perceived slur that he is 'a racist' that he has missed my point about tattoos completely.
As you are missing it because you are focussed on denying that Australia currently has a formal system of Apartheid.

As I said, it's easy to miss if it's not pointed out - or if you just don't want to see it.