What will turn Manly from a good side into a great side

[jbb/james]

1) It's more than the "odd wild pass or brain explosion" in relative terms to the best in the game, it consistently shows up in his play. The sad thing is DCE "technique" wise in his passing and kicking skillset along with some of his running game(in the rare moments he is direct) is of top notch quality but he is let down by a hyper rushed mind that when given time to "overthink" makes too many errors.

2)You can flourish with a reliable hard working hooker that is not flashy or you can flourish with a hooker that creates especially at his price point in the game.

3)We had Api and didn't use him right or build confidence around him to extract his qualities(even though Api's passing out of dummy half is poor), we have Croker who is hard working and strong but lacking the spark in the middle but in saying that we had Ballin who was hard working with the best crisp delivery in the game both sides of the ruck yet he lacked spark to create in the middle and Manly were still successful.

In saying that Manly are now lacking ballplaying depth in the squad from the loss of Foran,Schuster and Walker so the lack of spark and creativity out of dummy half will highlight our limitations more, so yes you are right but it is not an excuse for DCE's brain snaps at his price point in the game.

Sure one can say "surrounded in stars" DCE will not feel the pressure and focal point of coming up with the right play all the time and can sit back and choose his moments more, which then brings into question "how good he really is".

I have been asking the very same question for years. I think he has some great qualities as footy player, just a **** 7 overall. somewhere along the way he became a sympathy case due to the terrible media treatment he received from the backflip and escapes any form of scrutiny.

just repeated platitudes about how he is such an organiser. So, not a runner, not a game manager, but an organiser. And we are the most unorganised rabble on the right side in the history or rabble. Tad harsh but it rolls off the keyboard so im Keeping it

his kicking game is a dead set seinfeld 2 face

 

[bob dylan]

After watching the Dolphins attack and defence last night and comparing it to ours I wonder what Wayne could do with our talent.

No disrespect to Des or Seibold but I reckon thats all we need a coach who gets 100% out of his players most weeks.

 

[Bearfax]

Lacks leadership qualities and a clear mindset on how to deliver a "team" performance that is consistent and repeatable, he knows how to motivate himself(which is a good thing from a personal perspective) but not how to motivate and bring on board the "collective" mindset that puts everyone on the same page, wavelength and game plan.

He will make a good assistant coach and halves coach where he can get into a more "one on one" role and being able to pick out moments in games to take advantage of, he lacks the deeper science behind the game thinking mindset that knows how to "create the lead-up beforehand so that this moment can come to be".

The types of personalities that make great coaches tend to be the average players who study hard on what it takes to make it, know the qualities of others inside out(even though they lack the natural abilities of others to perform those exact same qualities or skills) and have a perfectionist hard working nature that gets the most out of themselves and also rubs off on others.

Have to disagree with certain elements of your comments regarding DCE though I understand the reasoning. For years now DCE has carried this side. He's been the only one displaying creativity. Certainly he's more an individualist, than a play maker, but a large number of Manly's attacking successes start with DCE. His kicking is top class. His defense top class. He's constantly probing the defense and as we saw recently some of his set up passes are sublime. Back in '21 when Turbo was on song, the players by a long shot who created tries, were Turbo and DCE. And statistically Schuster was next, even though he was playing second row. DCE leads by example and as I reiterate, sometimes he overplays because he tries too hard and isn't getting the creative support of others.

This is why Schuster would have been so important, if he had got his head together. Manly, since Foran left for Parramatta, have struggled to have a strong support five eighth. Blake was good. Some others like Weekes, Wright, Latu Fainu were never seriously given a chance to develop. So DCE has been Manly's sole play maker (Turbo being absent 50% of the time). Easy to mark one man, and if no one else is doing more than the standard play, its easy to contain Manly

Brooks may be the answer, though I'm still not convinced. Looks good but is he really creating opportunities? We've had looking good before. Foran when he came back, looked good, played tough, tried his heart out, but wasn't creating serious attacking forays. Bit worried Brooks is the same. Has more tricks up his sleeve and hopefully when he's settled in he'll be the missing piece and become a effective creator, not just running about looking good.. Jury's out in my opinion.

The mention of Watmough by a few was an excellent point. He created. Glen Stewart created. No one in the pack, despite its skills in other areas, fits that role. Jurbo I though was becoming that role, but he's now just the steadying force in the centre of the ruck, constantly left to do the tackling. Schuster had the potential, Burbo may offer something of that nature. And as for the hooking position, Croker tries very hard, defends like a demon, but again the creative element is lacking. It all comes back on DCE. Oh that he had a Munster or a Moses outside of him. Manly has elements that could be championship quality. But its like an engine that splutters. A two stroke trying to do a six cylinders work. Its not about DCE. Its about firstly the defensive structure and secondly a second creative player. For mine I'd get Burbo back quickly, switch Turbo to centre ( he looks to be struggling) and Koula to full back (that kid has serious talent but he's like a spare tyre sitting out there). And I'd be preparing young Hopoate, possibly initially on the wing, after he's had a season with the Reggies.

 

[eagle66]

I see Manly, I see the Wizard of Oz.
Sometimes we need a brain
Sometimes we need a heart
Sometimes we need courage

It seems every week we are missing one of these things.

 

[Snoz1976]

Patience, earn the right to attack and not go for the low percentage play all the time and learn to defend a mistake.

 

[Rocky]

Have to disagree with certain elements of your comments regarding DCE though I understand the reasoning. For years now DCE has carried this side. He's been the only one displaying creativity. Certainly he's more an individualist, than a play maker, but a large number of Manly's attacking successes start with DCE. His kicking is top class. His defense top class. He's constantly probing the defense and as we saw recently some of his set up passes are sublime. Back in '21 when Turbo was on song, the players by a long shot who created tries, were Turbo and DCE. And statistically Schuster was next, even though he was playing second row. DCE leads by example and as I reiterate, sometimes he overplays because he tries too hard and isn't getting the creative support of others.

This is why Schuster would have been so important, if he had got his head together. Manly, since Foran left for Parramatta, have struggled to have a strong support five eighth. Blake was good. Some others like Weekes, Wright, Latu Fainu were never seriously given a chance to develop. So DCE has been Manly's sole play maker (Turbo being absent 50% of the time). Easy to mark one man, and if no one else is doing more than the standard play, its easy to contain Manly

Brooks may be the answer, though I'm still not convinced. Looks good but is he really creating opportunities? We've had looking good before. Foran when he came back, looked good, played tough, tried his heart out, but wasn't creating serious attacking forays. Bit worried Brooks is the same. Has more tricks up his sleeve and hopefully when he's settled in he'll be the missing piece and become a effective creator, not just running about looking good.. Jury's out in my opinion.

The mention of Watmough by a few was an excellent point. He created. Glen Stewart created. No one in the pack, despite its skills in other areas, fits that role. Jurbo I though was becoming that role, but he's now just the steadying force in the centre of the ruck, constantly left to do the tackling. Schuster had the potential, Burbo may offer something of that nature. And as for the hooking position, Croker tries very hard, defends like a demon, but again the creative element is lacking. It all comes back on DCE. Oh that he had a Munster or a Moses outside of him. Manly has elements that could be championship quality. But its like an engine that splutters. A two stroke trying to do a six cylinders work. Its not about DCE. Its about firstly the defensive structure and secondly a second creative player. For mine I'd get Burbo back quickly, switch Turbo to centre ( he looks to be struggling) and Koula to full back (that kid has serious talent but he's like a spare tyre sitting out there). And I'd be preparing young Hopoate, possibly initially on the wing, after he's had a season with the Reggies.

Always love reading your contributions Bearfax.

 

[The Who]

The answer to the question is not one player, but one coach.
Bellyache!

 

[Technical Coach]

Have to disagree with certain elements of your comments regarding DCE though I understand the reasoning. For years now DCE has carried this side. He's been the only one displaying creativity. Certainly he's more an individualist, than a play maker, but a large number of Manly's attacking successes start with DCE. His kicking is top class. His defense top class. He's constantly probing the defense and as we saw recently some of his set up passes are sublime. Back in '21 when Turbo was on song, the players by a long shot who created tries, were Turbo and DCE. And statistically Schuster was next, even though he was playing second row. DCE leads by example and as I reiterate, sometimes he overplays because he tries too hard and isn't getting the creative support of others.

This is why Schuster would have been so important, if he had got his head together. Manly, since Foran left for Parramatta, have struggled to have a strong support five eighth. Blake was good. Some others like Weekes, Wright, Latu Fainu were never seriously given a chance to develop. So DCE has been Manly's sole play maker (Turbo being absent 50% of the time). Easy to mark one man, and if no one else is doing more than the standard play, its easy to contain Manly

Brooks may be the answer, though I'm still not convinced. Looks good but is he really creating opportunities? We've had looking good before. Foran when he came back, looked good, played tough, tried his heart out, but wasn't creating serious attacking forays. Bit worried Brooks is the same. Has more tricks up his sleeve and hopefully when he's settled in he'll be the missing piece and become a effective creator, not just running about looking good.. Jury's out in my opinion.

The mention of Watmough by a few was an excellent point. He created. Glen Stewart created. No one in the pack, despite its skills in other areas, fits that role. Jurbo I though was becoming that role, but he's now just the steadying force in the centre of the ruck, constantly left to do the tackling. Schuster had the potential, Burbo may offer something of that nature. And as for the hooking position, Croker tries very hard, defends like a demon, but again the creative element is lacking. It all comes back on DCE. Oh that he had a Munster or a Moses outside of him. Manly has elements that could be championship quality. But its like an engine that splutters. A two stroke trying to do a six cylinders work. Its not about DCE. Its about firstly the defensive structure and secondly a second creative player. For mine I'd get Burbo back quickly, switch Turbo to centre ( he looks to be struggling) and Koula to full back (that kid has serious talent but he's like a spare tyre sitting out there). And I'd be preparing young Hopoate, possibly initially on the wing, after he's had a season with the Reggies.

Forans side offered reliable consistent go forward from composed not overplaying his hand ballplaying, the attack also offered more reliable consistency over the years with more dangerous unselfish effective hole runners to setup the plays and Foran not cramping those options up.

No doubt DCE has become more the central point these days and offers most of our variety but with too much "low percentage high risk plays". I don't buy that due to the lack of attacking ballplaying options the high risk tackle one or two plays be it with passes or kicks is the reason why he goes down this path.

I feel it's a mix of wanting quick returns mixed with enjoying just playing in the moment, playing what he sees, sure these are good attributes to have and should be encouraged for less robotic play but there is a fine line of which too often he goes too far. As a leader/captian and at his price point and maturity he needs to offer some composed direction and keeping the players focused with the task at hand and not getting ahead of themselves.

I don't agree with you his running game is all that great over the years but i will say this last 2yrs he is trying to be more direct which i like, i do agree he never shirks his responsibility in defence but even defensively he lacks composure at times going for the high risk rushed defensive read.(but in all honesty all halves get caught out defensively eventually due to size and effective ballplaying and runners trying to isolate them)

We are paying big bucks for DCE and Tom at a price point they should be making others look good but it rarely feels that they have this kind of impact on the squad, it is like if they perform well Manly play well but not necessarily bringing out the best in others.

I've always stated we need a more dynamic small back rower through the middle or who can float around like Watmough(even though he played more in a corridor under Des) who can play high minutes at a high intensity like a Liam Martin. To me Jake for all his tackling and slow link plays just doesn't offer enough impact, sure his defensive efforts are hugely appreciated but when you go down the path of seeking "defensive" attributes as an "over positive" you know there is too much lacking in other areas.

I stated a few years ago i felt Tom physically played too stiff and robotic lacking football speed and would probably have to be moved to centre, Tolu has footy speed and footwork that would work well coming from behind and offer him more one on one plays but will have to develop a more rounded passing game and greater confidence under the high ball.

Maybe he can move into a 5/8 role if or when DCE moves on.(might be a while yet the way he is holding up physically) Brooks playing the incisive middle halfback role instead of a left corridor player, Tom on the left, Tolu out the back but we would need to develop a right side effective ballplayer so Tom is not just a tracked both sides 5/8 like he is at Fullback.

Problem is we can't take these risks while a coach is still trying to establish himself and needs instant performances to attract another contract, it will be safety first keep the status quo with not much future foresight in planning or pushing drastic changes that will have major teething problems and upheaval at the start for long term gains.

 

[Steve76]

Payne haas, fifita and reece walsh

 

[mave]

Problem is we can't take these risks while a coach is still trying to establish himself and needs instant performances to attract another contract, it will be safety first keep the status quo with not much future foresight in planning or pushing drastic changes that will have major teething problems and upheaval at the start for long term gains.

This ties in with the current owners penchant for KPIs for his head coaches.

It's been a consistent theme, for a consistent time frame...that coincidentally ties in with our current owner.

This KPI pressure affects everything....even down to pushing players too hard in pre season training.

I truly think we are lucky to have the silver tongued Siebold at the moment, if only as a barrier to our illustrious owners input.
Toovs and Des clearly were too direct for the taste.

 

[The Who]

Payne haas, fifita and reece walsh

Didn't help the teams they played for this week.

 

[Hotspur2014]

I see Manly, I see the Wizard of Oz.
Sometimes we need a brain
Sometimes we need a heart
Sometimes we need courage

It seems every week we are missing one of these things.

Last Friday night we missed all 3 !!

 

[Lloyd]

I think we need to drop a front rower and get another mobile second rower or 2. Someone like a McInnes from Cronulla. IMHO our defence is the problem. The forwards don’t come across nearly enough to support the edges or outside backs. Did you see the knights game. They seemed to have more players on the field than the warriors because their defence was mobile. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[manly al]

Backline is right up there . Know there is a bit of conjecture with Garick in the centres but on balance , probably best fit for the side there '
No big deal if Talau swapped with him but again Talau going quite well on one wing and Garrick's pace factor in the centres , more of an upside ..
Garrick a proven or quite reliable goal kicker
How to get the best forward mix is another matter .
Not sure who could be the optimum edge partner for Haumole .
Couldn "t really advocate Waddell , maybe not much better option then Burbo .
Would like to think Parker or even Bully to press a decent claim .
Brown to play a helpful role but not being used as a battering ram off the back fence or only at a bare minimum .
Tent starting and probably with Alioai at this stage . How to get the best of off Sipley , Lodge , Bully and having a totally healthy roster , another matter all together also of course .
Can a Froggy and Lawton 9 combo provide the necessary input to keep the side at a higher level .
Again, can only hope so

 

[Bearfax]

Forans side offered reliable consistent go forward from composed not overplaying his hand ballplaying, the attack also offered more reliable consistency over the years with more dangerous unselfish effective hole runners to setup the plays and Foran not cramping those options up.

No doubt DCE has become more the central point these days and offers most of our variety but with too much "low percentage high risk plays". I don't buy that due to the lack of attacking ballplaying options the high risk tackle one or two plays be it with passes or kicks is the reason why he goes down this path.

I feel it's a mix of wanting quick returns mixed with enjoying just playing in the moment, playing what he sees, sure these are good attributes to have and should be encouraged for less robotic play but there is a fine line of which too often he goes too far. As a leader/captian and at his price point and maturity he needs to offer some composed direction and keeping the players focused with the task at hand and not getting ahead of themselves.

I don't agree with you his running game is all that great over the years but i will say this last 2yrs he is trying to be more direct which i like, i do agree he never shirks his responsibility in defence but even defensively he lacks composure at times going for the high risk rushed defensive read.(but in all honesty all halves get caught out defensively eventually due to size and effective ballplaying and runners trying to isolate them)

We are paying big bucks for DCE and Tom at a price point they should be making others look good but it rarely feels that they have this kind of impact on the squad, it is like if they perform well Manly play well but not necessarily bringing out the best in others.

I've always stated we need a more dynamic small back rower through the middle or who can float around like Watmough(even though he played more in a corridor under Des) who can play high minutes at a high intensity like a Liam Martin. To me Jake for all his tackling and slow link plays just doesn't offer enough impact, sure his defensive efforts are hugely appreciated but when you go down the path of seeking "defensive" attributes as an "over positive" you know there is too much lacking in other areas.

I stated a few years ago i felt Tom physically played too stiff and robotic lacking football speed and would probably have to be moved to centre, Tolu has footy speed and footwork that would work well coming from behind and offer him more one on one plays but will have to develop a more rounded passing game and greater confidence under the high ball.

Maybe he can move into a 5/8 role if or when DCE moves on.(might be a while yet the way he is holding up physically) Brooks playing the incisive middle halfback role instead of a left corridor player, Tom on the left, Tolu out the back but we would need to develop a right side effective ballplayer so Tom is not just a tracked both sides 5/8 like he is at Fullback.

Problem is we can't take these risks while a coach is still trying to establish himself and needs instant performances to attract another contract, it will be safety first keep the status quo with not much future foresight in planning or pushing drastic changes that will have major teething problems and upheaval at the start for long term gains.

Worthy points there TC. I think some areas we see ximilarly, others I see alternatively.

Re Foran. Pre 2015 he was as you say dangerous and effective. Still is in some degrees but I felt upon his return he was not really offering that extra oomph needed. The only year he did was 2021 and that was also because Schuster was playing a second five eighth role and that was what was giving space to the back line. He's still a good player but even at this stage Brooks seems to offer more.

Re DCE. As I said I felt he was carrying the side a lot because we didn't have optional creativity. In 2021, we did. Two things made that season work. Turbo was in full flight. Schuster was helping to create space out wide. No surprise when those two went off the boil, Manly returned to their pedestrian ways. There's been a lot of criticism made of DCE over the years starting with the Titans contract issue. A lot of noses got out of joint on that one. I never felt Foran's decision to join Parramatta was something to criticize him for. It was a business /family decision. The only thing I was frustrated with, was Manly obviously chose to hold Foran and let DCE go. DCE joins the Titans on a million a season contract, when he probably would have stayed at Manly for less, and then suddenly Foran joins Parramatta and we are without both of our premiership winning halves. DCE wasn't going to break a contract, and cop the nasty criticism he copped from many in the media, unless Manly offered a better deal. Not his fault. He has since served Manly well and despite the questions of his performances, every Manly coach has obviously seen him as a first choice option as has the Queensland selectors after Thurston and Cronk retired seen him as their winning half. He's also one of the two half backs chosen for National side, even though he's in a side struggling to make the 8 for much of the past decade. The Fantasy Points gauge, which is based on statistics consistently has him as one of the top points scorers. So he must be doing something right. Players like Foran and Brooks get no where near him on that scale He's up there with Munster and only shaded by a little with Cleary.

Re Brooks; I'm perhaps a little tough on him because he does show a good range of skills and has impacted well. Like what he adds to the Manly attack. Defense is improving but still a little vulnerable (83% reliability as opposed to DCE almost 90%). However Manly's defense issues are noted especially out wider, with Saab and Garrick (who I prefer on the wing)

Re Turbo. Hard to criticise someone who offers Manly so much but has been hampered by injury for fifty percent of the time over the past half dozen seasons. Not his fault. Presently I think he's struggling and probably better close to the action where his skills, other than his speed would be useful. Five eighth is not out of the question. I recall a player with similar skills in Lockyer making the transition very successfully. Centre would also be a good pick. However the money issue with both DCE and Turbo is not worth crying over. The money is spent. The manner of letting Schuster go shows how costly even thinking about it is.. Waste of energy. We need to stick to the play.

Re Burbo. Early days but I think given time he could fill that Watmough type role. As a forward he's quite quick for someone his size, a fairly good defender (needs a little work there) and plays straight and has good mobility. Only a kid, but each years he improves.

 

[Disco]

I think we need to drop a front rower and get another mobile second rower or 2. Someone like a McInnes from Cronulla. IMHO our defence is the problem. The forwards don’t come across nearly enough to support the edges or outside backs. Did you see the knights game. They seemed to have more players on the field than the warriors because their defence was mobile. Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree three middles on the bench is unnecessary.

The squad is light on edges, particularly quality ones.

Olakau'atu is reat, Burbo has promise then we start scraping the barrell.

Definite area we need to recruit in.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

@sheridanstand78

Are you defining “ great “ as winning 3 ( maybe 4) Grand Finals in a row ??? In essence will we ever be a Penrith???

Or “ great “ as just more consistent , finishing top 4 most years and maybe winning a GF every decade or so???

Because I think to achieve the first option is nigh on impossible , unless you manage to cultivate a set of uniquely talented juniors , who play their entire lives together and all develop into superstars at the exact same time, because that’s exactly what happened at the Panthers.

The second option is possible , but incredibly difficult without a ****load of money from top to bottom. The best facilities , the best coaches , unlimited 3rd party deals so you can assemble not only a great side , but another half side that are also superstars.

I fear neither of those is Manly , nor is either of those most of the 17 sides to be honest other than the obvious.

Panthers, the nursery & the $$$ from that gigantic leagues club.

Broncos , the nursery ( QLD) & the $$$ from being the richest club in the game.

Storm , just comes down to $$$$ and loads of it , will be interesting though when Bellamy is gone.

Roosters , the $$$$$$ kings of the game , the most well connected club in the country , a who’s who of Australian business as their board.

The above 4, will be the top 4 ( injuries permitting ) indefinitely. One might drop out and go to 5th /6th and a club like ours go into the top 4 but this won’t be consistent.

You look at Super League in the UK / France and have a look at who’s won their premierships for the last 30 years.

The same principle applies.

I wish it was different, but I think the golden days are gone , that’s very sad but I think it’s the way it is.

 

[Bearfax]

Our one chance Mark is if Manly is bought by a super rich Russian Oligarch or a super rich Oil Magnate. Heaven forbid, but its money that rules the game.

 

[Eagle 1]

@sheridanstand78

Are you defining “ great “ as winning 3 ( maybe 4) Grand Finals in a row ??? In essence will we ever be a Penrith???

Or “ great “ as just more consistent , finishing top 4 most years and maybe winning a GF every decade or so???

Because I think to achieve the first option is nigh on impossible , unless you manage to cultivate a set of uniquely talented juniors , who play their entire lives together and all develop into superstars at the exact same time, because that’s exactly what happened at the Panthers.

The second option is possible , but incredibly difficult without a ****load of money from top to bottom. The best facilities , the best coaches , unlimited 3rd party deals so you can assemble not only a great side , but another half side that are also superstars.

I fear neither of those is Manly , nor is either of those most of the 17 sides to be honest other than the obvious.

Panthers, the nursery & the $$$ from that gigantic leagues club.

Broncos , the nursery ( QLD) & the $$$ from being the richest club in the game.

Storm , just comes down to $$$$ and loads of it , will be interesting though when Bellamy is gone.

Roosters , the $$$$$$ kings of the game , the most well connected club in the country , a who’s who of Australian business as their board.

The above 4, will be the top 4 ( injuries permitting ) indefinitely. One might drop out and go to 5th /6th and a club like ours go into the top 4 but this won’t be consistent.

You look at Super League in the UK / France and have a look at who’s won their premierships for the last 30 years.

The same principle applies.

I wish it was different, but I think the golden days are gone , that’s very sad but I think it’s the way it is.

You've painted a gloomy picture Mark, but being realistic, it's a truthful one.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Have to disagree with certain elements of your comments regarding DCE though I understand the reasoning. For years now DCE has carried this side. He's been the only one displaying creativity. Certainly he's more an individualist, than a play maker, but a large number of Manly's attacking successes start with DCE. His kicking is top class. His defense top class. He's constantly probing the defense and as we saw recently some of his set up passes are sublime. Back in '21 when Turbo was on song, the players by a long shot who created tries, were Turbo and DCE. And statistically Schuster was next, even though he was playing second row. DCE leads by example and as I reiterate, sometimes he overplays because he tries too hard and isn't getting the creative support of others.

This is why Schuster would have been so important, if he had got his head together. Manly, since Foran left for Parramatta, have struggled to have a strong support five eighth. Blake was good. Some others like Weekes, Wright, Latu Fainu were never seriously given a chance to develop. So DCE has been Manly's sole play maker (Turbo being absent 50% of the time). Easy to mark one man, and if no one else is doing more than the standard play, its easy to contain Manly

Brooks may be the answer, though I'm still not convinced. Looks good but is he really creating opportunities? We've had looking good before. Foran when he came back, looked good, played tough, tried his heart out, but wasn't creating serious attacking forays. Bit worried Brooks is the same. Has more tricks up his sleeve and hopefully when he's settled in he'll be the missing piece and become a effective creator, not just running about looking good.. Jury's out in my opinion.

The mention of Watmough by a few was an excellent point. He created. Glen Stewart created. No one in the pack, despite its skills in other areas, fits that role. Jurbo I though was becoming that role, but he's now just the steadying force in the centre of the ruck, constantly left to do the tackling. Schuster had the potential, Burbo may offer something of that nature. And as for the hooking position, Croker tries very hard, defends like a demon, but again the creative element is lacking. It all comes back on DCE. Oh that he had a Munster or a Moses outside of him. Manly has elements that could be championship quality. But its like an engine that splutters. A two stroke trying to do a six cylinders work. Its not about DCE. Its about firstly the defensive structure and secondly a second creative player. For mine I'd get Burbo back quickly, switch Turbo to centre ( he looks to be struggling) and Koula to full back (that kid has serious talent but he's like a spare tyre sitting out there). And I'd be preparing young Hopoate, possibly initially on the wing, after he's had a season with the Reggies.

I think this is a real quality post and close to mark on pretty much everything.

The only aspect I would argue concerns Foran. I think he was consistently an attacking threat during his second stint at Manly. Like a bloody good attacking threat. He helped unlock Turbo in 21’ with some excellent ball playing. My only concern with Foran in those two years was his lack of speed in defence. Occasionally, he would just struggle to chase out. Always put his body on the line and was a robust defender but he’d caught out for speed.

I agree the jury is out on Brooks but given it can take time to build combinations, he has had a good start. We do need him to go to another level at some stage, but as you often suggest, time is required.