What is the new version of 13+?

[Harmless27]

Credit to @Mark from Brisbane as he raised this in another thread - but I genuinely think it is worth a seperate conversation.

When I was a young lad, is used to spend $5 here or there having a punt on the footy. I would often look at which games I felt would be 'close' vs which games would be 'floggings'.

I would look at 'who had been given the 'start', and what were the odds for 13+ etc etc

I am no longer a gambler, and have no interest in it..... but I do wonder - do the old versions of 'close' vs 'flogging' still stand the test of time?

A loss by 20 points or less feels like a relatively close game to me these days. Losing a game 36-20 for example would not feel like a thrashing.... whereas 20 years ago that was a cricket score.

So my question is this:
What is a close game? is it a game with only 10 points between teams?
What is a 'normal score?
What is a thrashing?

I reflect on manly last week.... down by 32 at half time - that was a FLOGGING.

 

[The Who]

The match last night was a good example. The 'Fins were by far the best team in the first half and it looked like being a close match. The second half was a flogging. Why the reversal?
Teams these days go on scoring 'sprees', racking up three tries or more in quick succession. A once insurmountable lead of 18 is now within the reach of the chasing team thanks to the ref, the six-agains and the will of the NRL to achieve close results.

 

[Blucky]

Not to mention the random sending offs, which always skew the results

 

[Rafferty]

The match last night was a good example. The 'Fins were by far the best team in the first half and it looked like being a close match. The second half was a flogging. Why the reversal?

Three tries while Kenny was in the bin sealed the deal.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Thank you

I think in the modern era where it’s possible ( through the weight of possession brought on by tired teams infringing the ruck) for a team to score 3 or 4 quick try’s ( potentially 24 points ) that you just can’t consider games with a high score a “ flogging “.

Take for example Team A & Team B

Team A is battling hard but suddenly is down 0-12.

Team B is “ on fire “ getting all the possession, and then Team A loses a forward for 10 minutes for holding down.

Team A is then flat out keeping them out with continued repeat sets , and just like that it’s 0-32.

This looks like an absolute flogging BUT it’s happening way too often , to way too many teams.

Then we get to the second half and the refs say “ holy **** if we don’t do something this is going to get really ugly and the broadcasters HATE ugly and LOVE close , so let’s do our bit to even it up.

Now, whilst this conversation mightn’t go exactly like that , in 95% of occasions it’s very very rare for a team that is well in front to continue on , is it that they give up ( I doubt it ) or are forced into conceding ???

We are no longer in the 70’s , 80’s or 90’s, the game is no longer a game it’s “
ENTERTAINMENT “.

And is manipulated to provide that.

Of course the good teams still win and the average teams will lose , but I think the goal posts have changed on the scoreline that reflects that.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Three tries while Kenny was in the bin sealed the deal.

A sin bin , and multiple repeat sets changes the whole game.

Impossible to recover from.

 

[Rafferty]

A sin bin , and multiple repeat sets changes the whole game.

Impossible to recover from.

Agree, the whole game management from the officialdom perspective is on the nose, cant openly say it’s crooked, but happy to say it has a very equine stench to it.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Agree, the whole game management from the officialdom perspective is on the nose, cant openly say it’s crooked, but happy to say it has a very equine stench to it.

I’ll say it , not necessarily crooked BUT “ manipulated “ for entertainment purposes.

You only have to hear the excitement in the callers voices when they get a close game.

They want the exciting finish.

They want Golden Point.

They pay HUGE ( massive ) money for the rights and the whole game is driven by that money , so anyone who thinks it’s not manipulation in some sense is living under a rock.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

By the way @Harmless27 a good thread , an interesting discussion.

Thanks for posting

 

[maxta]

There are many reasons for a splurge of points in the modern game.
The speed of the game is 3 x quicker and the momentum shifts often allow a team 12 straight sets of possession, which translates to points.
So when there are far more points in a regular game, this will make it far more common to have your high scoring games such as 42 - 26 ect.
The best indicator of a close game is to be able to turn the sound down and watch it play out evenly with equal field position, try for try and similar intensity in the ruck area....I feel due to the momentum shifts and dominant possession either team can have in todays game, you can have a 16 point winner yet a close contest in a high scoring game, but if it's a low scoring game day 22 - 4 - that's a dominance type score line, as indicates defence has decided the contest more than attack.

 

[deanm]

Thank you

I think in the modern era where it’s possible ( through the weight of possession brought on by tired teams infringing the ruck) for a team to score 3 or 4 quick try’s ( potentially 24 points ) that you just can’t consider games with a high score a “ flogging “.

Take for example Team A & Team B

Team A is battling hard but suddenly is down 0-12.

Team B is “ on fire “ getting all the possession, and then Team A loses a forward for 10 minutes for holding down.

Team A is then flat out keeping them out with continued repeat sets , and just like that it’s 0-32.

This looks like an absolute flogging BUT it’s happening way too often , to way too many teams.

Then we get to the second half and the refs say “ holy **** if we don’t do something this is going to get really ugly and the broadcasters HATE ugly and LOVE close , so let’s do our bit to even it up.

Now, whilst this conversation mightn’t go exactly like that , in 95% of occasions it’s very very rare for a team that is well in front to continue on , is it that they give up ( I doubt it ) or are forced into conceding ???

We are no longer in the 70’s , 80’s or 90’s, the game is no longer a game it’s “
ENTERTAINMENT “.

And is manipulated to provide that.

Of course the good teams still win and the average teams will lose , but I think the goal posts have changed on the scoreline that reflects that.

Totally agree Mark. The 6 again rule is open to so many different interpretations , although this year has been a little better IMHO. I actually think we had a pretty good rub of the green in the 2nd half last week after being down 32-0 , I'm sure Tv ratings would have went down substantially if Pennies were leading 50-0 with 25 mins to go !

 

[Harmless27]

I personally have no problem with the game being considered content/entertainment.

I do have a problem with pre-determined results etc.... so I guess I just don't want to see it turn into WWE. Otherwise we may as well just give up now, as it doens't really matter!

I much prefer to see good teams win, and bad teams lose.

I do think there should ALWAYS be a reward for playing attacking footy and taking a risk....

and finally - I thought the salary cap was the tool used to 'even' the comp. So shouldn't that be enough with the refs stacking the books too?

 

[Woodsie]

AND ... look where the most trys are scored ... the two hardest places to defend ... and the places that all teams spend 90% of their training time practising to attack ..

Out wide on the wingers ... and from kicks ...

Get a set in an attacking position and you are disappointed if you don't score ..

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Totally agree Mark. The 6 again rule is open to so many different interpretations , although this year has been a little better IMHO. I actually think we had a pretty good rub of the green in the 2nd half last week after being down 32-0 , I'm sure Tv ratings would have went down substantially if Pennies were leading 50-0 with 25 mins to go !

We had an excellent “ rub of the green “ and you’ll see this game after game when one side gets absolutely flogged in the first half.

The broadcasters want close games , the ratings are what’s important , and nothing improves a game like “ 28-24 with 5 minutes to go “.

Honestly I think it’s already WWE.

Again , the good sides will still win but you aren’t going to see “ 72-0 score lines “ as this is the biggest turnoff for fans ever.

To be honest , I’m very very disillusioned with the current game , I think if you’re 30 and you’ve never known different you’ll think it’s really cool.

If you are in your 50’s-70’s where you’ve seen it as it used to be , you are really dissapointed.

If I wasn’t so passionate, it would be easy for me to walk away from the game , but the NRL doesn’t care about me , I’m a small minority now , the game is squarely aimed at 20’s to 30’s and females.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The game is now just a vehicle to make money.?The six again rule has been a blight on the game and has facilitated outcomes being affected by decisions made by the officials. They only want them to try to keep their whistles in their pockets during its origin. It’s no the game I grew up playing and loving to watch. Tackled players frequent step over the tackler or to the side of their marker and take them out of the defence and referees do very little about it. Frustrating to watch.

 

[The Who]

I think one point perhaps missed in this discussion about the modern game is the time-in-play. There are far fewer stoppages in the sport now; no time for players to have a breather when scrums are packed or penalties taken.
I'd reckon the ball is in play these days 25-30% more than it was a couple of decades ago. This naturally results in fatigue and points being scored, despite the fact that players are obviously fitter than they have ever been.

 

[Bomb Voyage]

close game is within 12 points, flogging is 24+

 

[rj90]

The NRL think more points scored = better game. That's why they bought in the 6 agains.

I'd much rather watch a close match 8 - 6 than a blow out 48 - 6.

Agree 24ish + is a flogging.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

close game is within 12 points, flogging is 24+

Agree with the close , but many games ( look at last night as an example ) have that 20-24 point gap.

I didn’t see last night as being a “ flogging “ but by your indicator it was.

I just think the game has changed so very much now that high scores are the norm.

Be very surprised if we ever see a 8-6 or 4-2 scoreline again.

That , by the way , isn’t “ entertainment “.

Entertainment is 32-30 with 4 minutes to go.

 

[KNUCKLES]

Agree, the whole game management from the officialdom perspective is on the nose, cant openly say it’s crooked, but happy to say it has a very equine stench to it.

All sports have a scripted nature to it. After all it's entertainment