What is religious persecution today?

[Cliffycomeback]

As I have been directed by @lsz here is a new thread so we don't go off track with the Trump talk.

All the accusations of Islamophobia and the growing sympathy of Westerners towards terrorist organisations such as HAMAS has got me confused. There are well educated people excusing the horrific crimes of October the 7th as an act of defiance perpetrated against an oppressive regime. If a person speaks out against extremism they are called bigoted and hateful. We even have gays supporting Hamas, an organisation who would shoot them merely for being queer.

I find it all surreal, like I'm living in an alternate universe.

So, what qualifies as religious persecution today?

Why do so many of the people who mock, ridicule and slander Christianity jump to the defence of Islam whenever they perceive "Islamophobia" has taken place? Please someone help me to understand this madness.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

In October 2023, Sydney Imam Ibrahim Dadoun made headlines for describing Hamas's attack on Israel as a "day of victory". At a pro-Palestine rally in Lakemba, Dadoun's comments drew widespread criticism from political and religious leaders.

Imam Ibrahim Dadoun's comments
During the rally, which took place the day after the October 7 attack, Dadoun told the crowd he was "smiling," "happy," and "elated". He referred to the attack as:

• "A day of courage"
• "A day of happiness"
• "A day of pride"
• "A day of victory"

Call me strange, but to me, this qualifies as hate speech on every level. It is vile.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

France’s churches are burning – and no one seems to care

France’s churches are under attack, yet the media and political establishment are pretending not to notice. Last year, we saw blazes at historic churches in Rouen, Saint-Omer and Poitiers – each one another grim statistic in an escalating crisis. For years, we’ve seen Christian places of worship...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Cliffycomeback]

 

[Cliffycomeback]

Parliamentary question | The abominable massacre of Christians and Alawites in Syria and the urgent need for an immediate and decisive EU response | P-001051/2025 | European Parliament

Priority question for written answer P-001051/2025 to the Commission Rule 144 Afroditi Latinopoulou (PfE)

www.europarl.europa.eu

 

[h27272727]

As I have been directed by @lsz here is a new thread so we don't go off track with the Trump talk.

All the accusations of Islamophobia and the growing sympathy of Westerners towards terrorist organisations such as HAMAS has got me confused. There are well educated people excusing the horrific crimes of October the 7th as an act of defiance perpetrated against an oppressive regime. If a person speaks out against extremism they are called bigoted and hateful. We even have gays supporting Hamas, an organisation who would shoot them merely for being queer.

I find it all surreal, like I'm living in an alternate universe.

So, what qualifies as religious persecution today?

Why do so many of the people who mock, ridicule and slander Christianity jump to the defence of Islam whenever they perceive "Islamophobia" has taken place? Please someone help me to understand this madness.

There is a possibility you are living in an alternate universe (lots of westeners were before October 7 too). Try to hear me out, I can at least explain why you get the sense that 'the tables turned'.

Even in that post you acknowledge that Hamas is an organisation. An organisation X that killed Y in country Z over a period of 1 day. A number of hostages were taken from country Z, supposedly to use as a bargaining chip.

Contrary to your words, most people think the initial action of organisation X was terrible; but lets skip past that point to not detract from your question.

Your perspective is that the appropriate response was for the victim of October 7, country Z, to blanket bomb people A over a period of 732 days and gradually strip fundamental human rights and needs (food, water supply). Who are people A? When did they enter this story? How does this save the hostages that are supposedly at the centre of this issue?

It is collective punishment to endlessly kill people A for the action of organisation X.

What's happened (in part due to videos circulating social media) is that people placed both the action and response on a weight scale.

The action by organisation X originally had enormous weight. People let country Z respond for a while, but gradually it became apparent country Z didn't intend on stopping. As concerning information became available and time progressed the scales tipped. Now, the actions of country Z are so heavy in proportion that the original action of organisation X is suspended.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

There is a possibility you are living in an alternate universe (lots of westeners were before October 7 too). Try to hear me out, I can at least explain why you get the sense that 'the tables turned'.

Even in that post you acknowledge that Hamas is an organisation. An organisation X that killed Y in country Z over a period of 1 day. A number of hostages were taken from country Z, supposedly to use as a bargaining chip.

Contrary to your words, most people think the initial action of organisation X was terrible; but lets skip past that point to not detract from your question.

Your perspective is that the appropriate response was for the victim of October 7, country Z, to blanket bomb people A over a period of 732 days and gradually strip fundamental human rights and needs (food, water supply). Who are people A? When did they enter this story? How does this save the hostages that are supposedly at the centre of this issue?

It is collective punishment to endlessly kill people A for the action of organisation X.

What's happened (in part due to videos circulating social media) is that people placed both the action and response on a weight scale.

The action by organisation X originally had enormous weight. People let country Z respond for a while, but gradually it became apparent country Z didn't intend on stopping. As concerning information became available and time progressed the scales tipped. Now, the actions of country Z are so heavy in proportion that the original action of organisation X is suspended.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I agree that it is a horrible situation all round.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

There is a possibility you are living in an alternate universe (lots of westeners were before October 7 too). Try to hear me out, I can at least explain why you get the sense that 'the tables turned'.

Even in that post you acknowledge that Hamas is an organisation. An organisation X that killed Y in country Z over a period of 1 day. A number of hostages were taken from country Z, supposedly to use as a bargaining chip.

Contrary to your words, most people think the initial action of organisation X was terrible; but lets skip past that point to not detract from your question.

Your perspective is that the appropriate response was for the victim of October 7, country Z, to blanket bomb people A over a period of 732 days and gradually strip fundamental human rights and needs (food, water supply). Who are people A? When did they enter this story? How does this save the hostages that are supposedly at the centre of this issue?

It is collective punishment to endlessly kill people A for the action of organisation X.

What's happened (in part due to videos circulating social media) is that people placed both the action and response on a weight scale.

The action by organisation X originally had enormous weight. People let country Z respond for a while, but gradually it became apparent country Z didn't intend on stopping. As concerning information became available and time progressed the scales tipped. Now, the actions of country Z are so heavy in proportion that the original action of organisation X is suspended.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Best explanation I have heard this far. However, I believe there are many who unlike yourself have just come to the conclusion that Israel and Jews are bad without really knowing why. My other concern is that Israel is surrounded by people who want to harm them. There is a plethora of evidence to support this.

 

[h27272727]

Best explanation I have heard this far. However, I believe there are many who unlike yourself have just come to the conclusion that Israel and Jews are bad without really knowing why. My other concern is that Israel is surrounded by people who want to harm them. There is a plethora of evidence to support this.

There'll inevitably be a number of people vocal against Israel simply because they don't like Israeli's/Jews. I truly have no idea what % (unfortunately there's no good way to determine such a figure quantitatively). Similarly, there will also be people who dislike Palestinians / arabs (it is not uncommon for people to only associate arabs with terrorism).

Sadly, there'd also be people that hate both!

Since Israel declared their independence from the British Mandate of Palestine in 1948, there was a movement amongst Arab territories to try unite and reverse the 1947 UN partition plan / destroy the state of Israel. But unity of Arab states was a challenge in itself (infact they failed to unify in the end, even pairing up with Europe to fight Iraq in 91'). The Arab-Israeli conflict worsened after the six day war of 1967. Following the 73' war, however, the broader Arab-Israeli conflict was more or less brought to an end. By the late 70s an agreement between Israel and Egypt took place. Six day war territories (such as Syria's Sinai peninsular) were all handed back by early 80s (minus Gaza and West Bank). Jordan agreement followed in the 90's. Then 1993 Oslo accords (mutual recognition, PLO recognised Israel, Israel recognised PLO as representatives of Palestinian people and set framework for two-state solution).

You can see the trend w.r.t Israel-arab relations from the 40s-90s via the timeline of the conflict below,

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict Timeline

education.cfr.org

As a simple overview, that timeline does a fairly good job; it does skip past the influence of Zionist movements pre-1948 and overlooks a period of escalating muslim and jewish fundamental extremism during the 90s (to dismantle peace efforts). Other topics not addressed include Israel's presence in the West Bank/Gaza today, events leading up to each intifada, evolution of Palestinian peace methods (violent to non-violent, different factions) and the series of events culminating in Hamas gaining prevalance/power. There's so much involved in this conflict it is so hard to adequately try sum it up.

But to keep it purely on topic for now, that timeline does a good job at underpinning the notion that while Israel certainly was involved in wars with its arab neighbours (and was at real risk at a point in time), Arab states and Israel have largely come to the position of mutual recognition and the primary roadblock is a meaningful resolution to the local Israel-Palestine conflict.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

Well as you know there is a long history of Israel sitting down to talks, then continued land grabs, shootings etc so I have not much faith in Bibi holding the peace.

Blah blah blah. Go and march with a drum in hand. I'm so sick of reading that Israel and the Jews are greedy, evil tyrants. There are two parties involved and the Muslim states must shoulder there part in all of this as well. People like you are why peace and compromising are so hard to find today.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Blah blah blah. Go and march with a drum in hand. I'm so sick of reading that Israel and the Jews are greedy, evil tyrants. There are two parties involved and the Muslim states must shoulder there part in all of this as well. People like you are why peace and compromising are so hard to find today.

I defy you to quote a single post where anyone on this site has said anything about greedy Jews.

In fact you are the only one to make sweeping attacks on people based on anything such as religion or race. In your case disparaging approx 2.2 billion humans…

 

[Cliffycomeback]

I defy you to quote a single post where anyone on this site has said anything about greedy Jews.

In fact you are the only one to make sweeping attacks on people based on anything such as religion or race. In your case disparaging approx 2.2 billion humans…

"Well as you know there is a long history of Israel sitting down to talks, then continued land grabs, shootings etc so I have not much faith in Bibi holding the peace"

The above is what was posted by @manlyfan76

Referencing land grabs and shootings by the Jews as stopping peace deals reads like they are more interested in land and genocide than peace. Killing for gain isn't suggestive of greed to you?

And just as you have posted many things you don't like about Christianity, I have done the same with Islam. I don't like extremism that leads to terrorism, human rights abuses, women being treated as second class citizens, gays being executed, Sharia law being implemented in Western society, child marriage, or a religious ideology governing nations of people. If you disagree with these points, please do elaborate. Does that mean I believe every Muslim is a terrorist? No of course not.

Stop being dishonest @SeaEagleRock8

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

land grabs and shootings by the Jews

"the Jews"

There you go again. You are tarring an entire people by the actions of a few, just as you do with Muslims.

fyi many Jewish people including in Israel oppose Netanyahu, there was a huge campaign of public protests against him for his corruption and attempts to change the legal system in the months leading up to Oct 7, even his own generals and security advisors opposed his decision to occupy Gaza.

Judge people by what they do, not where they were born, what colour, creed etc. Don't you agree with this?

 

[Cliffycomeback]

"the Jews"

There you go again. You are tarring an entire people by the actions of a few, just as you do with Muslims.

fyi many Jewish people including in Israel oppose Netanyahu, there was a huge campaign of public protests against him for his corruption and attempts to change the legal system in the months leading up to Oct 7, even his own generals and security advisors opposed his decision to occupy Gaza.

Judge people by what they do, not where they were born, what colour, creed etc. Don't you agree with this?

Now you want to flip it and label me anti Semitic. I feel genuine pity for you.

I have met some great Aussies both here and abroad but I've also met my share of wankers. Same as every other nationality, race and people group.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Now you want to flip it and label me anti Semitic. I feel genuine pity for you.

I have met some great Aussies both here and abroad but I've also met my share of wankers. Same as every other nationality, race and people group.

I didn't say you were anti-Semitic.
By the way, did you know Palestinians are also Semites? It's not only for Hebrew.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

Oh, look at biff trying to turn this thread about Trump into a religion thread…again.

Little Pooh Pooh, you are so reliable.

Where did I raise religion except in response to an accusation?

 

[Cliffycomeback]

I didn't say you were anti-Semitic.
By the way, did you know Palestinians are also Semites? It's not only for Hebrew.

You raised religion not me. Seriously mate.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

@SeaEagleRock8

You posted "I defy you to quote a single post where anyone on this site has said anything about greedy Jews." Which I immediately did, then you shifted the goalposts and replied "you are calling Jews, Jews," oh my gosh, gasp, shock, horror. Of course that was followed up by your uninformed lap dog little Pooh Pooh Bear @47MVEagle calling me Biff. It's all so utterly predictable.

 

[47MVEagle]

You posted "I defy you to quote a single post where anyone on this site has said anything about greedy Jews." Which I immediately did, then you shifted the goalposts and replied "you are calling Jews, Jews," oh my gosh, gasp, shock, horror. Of course that was followed up by your uninformed lap dog little Pooh Pooh Bear calling me Biff. It's all so utterly predictable.

He associated land grabs & shootings with Netanyahu, you’re the one who associated them with “greedy Jews”, you dopey clown.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

You posted "I defy you to quote a single post where anyone on this site has said anything about greedy Jews." Which I immediately did, then you shifted the goalposts

No. You failed to quote a single post where any Silvertails have slammed the Jews as 'greedy evil tyrants' (your own words) or even as anything else

I'm so sick of reading that Israel and the Jews are greedy, evil tyrants.

All you came up with was Mf76 saying Bibi breaks peace treaties, which is a matter of public record that no-one denies.

can you distinguish between the actions of someone who is a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim or an atheist or a Hindu or a Ba'hai or a whatever-else-the-****-they-want-to-believe, and ALL the people of that persuasion?

That was my clear point, that is what I am asking you, and I'm paying you the respect of giving you another opportunity to respond.