WE must sign some crunching props next year after watching last night's game

  • We had an issue with background services between march 10th and 15th or there about. This meant the payment services were not linking to automatic upgrades. If you paid for premium membership and are still seeing ads please let me know and the email you used against PayPal and I cam manually verify and upgrade your account.
Mark from Brisbane said:
And IS boring TC!!

I agree when you watch the game from a certain perspective.

The fun part is to challenge yourself to find new ways to break the mould or find elements in the game where you are starting to see changes be it good or bad for the game.
 
You just can't tell how players might develop. The classic case we all know is Glen Stewart. He didn't look like much in 06/07 but by 2008 he was irreplaceable.

Our recruitment & coaching staff have seen something in Sao, Andrews, Lauaki, Hasson and Starling. I'm prepared to see how they go next year before I say we need to spend more money on new players.
 
Loobs said:
Next year will be a different game for Souths. They loose Sam Burgess and Teo - their main two intimidators. George and Luke are big but no one fears them - Sam is their bodyguard. Will be interesting to see what happens when someone puts a big hit on them without the grub enforcers around.

True, but then Tom Burgess will start to get more time and will develop. I have a feeling he will end up as good as Sam.


anthonyb1965 said:
@ryan are you saying we have the wrong coach?

IMO, Tooves has done a brilliant job and I prefer his style to Desi.

Personally I think Toovey's weaknesses are player selections and interchange usage. I also think our defence took a dive this year, although; defence is largely attitude and I think we can all see that took a hit at the back-end of the season. That's on the players more so than Toovey though.

I said at the start of the year that Jake T and Ligi Sao should have been given the nod ahead of Starling, Andrews and Hasson. I still stand by that, and I think that we would have stood up at the back-end of the season a little better, and would have seen these two battle-hardened for next year. As it is, we had this year developing new players, and will have to do it again next year - provided Jake T and Ligi do get a call up, but who knows. I just think we could have done things a little differently.

I still think Toovey has a lot of great qualities and can certainly take us to further premierships, but just like everyone - players, administrators, you and I - we can all improve and have areas to work on and Toovey is no exception.

I also thought he was too slow to make the Tafua change. A few of us saw the problems on our flanks well before the finals, and IMO, had better options in Blair and Gutherson. We could have also used Tafua off the bench in the back-row as an impact player (something we sorely lacked outside of JSL). I hope we see this next year.

Having said all of that, I'm no coach, so take all of that with a grain of salt :)
 
anthonyb1965 said:
@ryan are you saying we have the wrong coach?

IMO, Tooves has done a brilliant job and I prefer his style to Desi.

Not necessarily. I've seen nothing new from Toovey to judge. Toovey inherited a star studded team, and it is presently in disarray, with players wanting to leave - you see that with Craig Bellamy?

The answer is no.

Toovey's won 3 from 9 finals games since being here. All he has done is ride the coat tails of the system Hasler grew and produced, and it's now being ripped apart and flailing.

The fact that the playing group is so splintered "in my opinion" is a complete reflection on Geoff Toovey's ability to bind a playing group.

Des Hasler will probably be playing in another Grand Final, with a different playing group, because he changed their style, and in big games, out coached the opposition.
 
Ryan said:
anthonyb1965 said:
@ryan are you saying we have the wrong coach?

IMO, Tooves has done a brilliant job and I prefer his style to Desi.

Not necessarily. I've seen nothing new from Toovey to judge. Toovey inherited a star studded team, and it is presently in disarray, with players wanting to leave - you see that with Craig Bellamy?

The answer is no.

Toovey's won 3 from 9 finals games since being here. All he has done is ride the coat tails of the system Hasler grew and produced, and it's now being ripped apart and flailing.

The fact that the playing group is so splintered "in my opinion" is a complete reflection on Geoff Toovey's ability to bind a playing group.

Des Hasler will probably be playing in another Grand Final, with a different playing group, because he changed their style, and in big games, out coached the opposition.

How much do you bench press Ryan? I don't think Des will be putting the boots on next week.
 
Top End Eagle said:
Ryan said:
anthonyb1965 said:
@ryan are you saying we have the wrong coach?

IMO, Tooves has done a brilliant job and I prefer his style to Desi.

Not necessarily. I've seen nothing new from Toovey to judge. Toovey inherited a star studded team, and it is presently in disarray, with players wanting to leave - you see that with Craig Bellamy?

The answer is no.

Toovey's won 3 from 9 finals games since being here. All he has done is ride the coat tails of the system Hasler grew and produced, and it's now being ripped apart and flailing.

The fact that the playing group is so splintered "in my opinion" is a complete reflection on Geoff Toovey's ability to bind a playing group.

Des Hasler will probably be playing in another Grand Final, with a different playing group, because he changed their style, and in big games, out coached the opposition.

How much do you bench press Ryan? I don't think Des will be putting the boots on next week.

How much do I bench press, and you don't think Des will be throwing on the boots next week? What in the heck are you talking about sir?

Step AWAY from the billy my friend. Put the chopping bowl down, and go lie down.
 
Tooves has had two finals where the opposition has put 40 on us, Melbourne and Souths, which makes me wonder.

Des is on a different level to Tooves, as is evidenced by taking his 7th placed team to another GF.
 
Ryan said:
Toovey's won 3 from 9 finals games since being here. All he has done is ride the coat tails of the system Hasler grew and produced, and it's now being ripped apart and flailing.

And how much of Tooves' salary cap is taken up in payments for Des' past glories? You don't think that would have bitten Des too if he stuck around? Some cynics might even go so far as to say it had a bit to do with him leaving.
 
Dessies Dogs should have had their Mad Monday this past week if it wasn't for the hand of Todd, so let's not over react to the genius o Des...
 
Ryan said:
I tend to disagree with the sentiment we'd get monstered. What actually struck me last night was The Rabbits team cohesion, passion and focus. They were in the trenches with each other, and no-one seemed to feel (to me anyway) that they were better than everyone else.

They were a well oiled, well coached team.

Manly towards the end had none of that, and this is why we lost 6 from our last 8 games or something. We lacked cohesion, we lacked hard work, we lacked passion, and we lacked heart.

I'd go as far as to say the players (or a certain section of them) acted and played unprofessionally.

Your never going to win given the consistent bull**** we all had to face this year with the playing group.

I think Symonds, Buhrer, Lawrence, Lui and JSL can compete with these big boys, but they need to do it in other ways not including bashing each other out of it.

Where does strategy, and game plan come from though? Geoff Toovey. Geoff had a deplorable game plan on the field (in the finals), and he let the psycho's run the asylum off the field. In fact, he failed miserably in all facets except the week to week season proper grind.

We won't compete with the GOOD teams while their are nitwits on the board, in the team & other areas causing disharmony.

Get this playing group all pulling together in the same direction, and buying into what we are trying to achieve, the worlds our oyster. Geoff has some work to do. He can only ride Des Hasler's coat tails so long before he's found out. We also need to cut the growing festering cancer inhibiting our team at present.

Tooves went wrong when he didn't pick Ballin, Buhrer, choc, Fa'aso or gift in that final game. All 5 were in our top 17 last year when we went all the way to the grand final yet this year he drops them. Add to that he pulls Hidges off halfway through the first final when if we won we could have had a week off. Really cannot work him out some times.
 
Fluffy said:
Ryan said:
I tend to disagree with the sentiment we'd get monstered. What actually struck me last night was The Rabbits team cohesion, passion and focus. They were in the trenches with each other, and no-one seemed to feel (to me anyway) that they were better than everyone else.

They were a well oiled, well coached team.

Manly towards the end had none of that, and this is why we lost 6 from our last 8 games or something. We lacked cohesion, we lacked hard work, we lacked passion, and we lacked heart.

I'd go as far as to say the players (or a certain section of them) acted and played unprofessionally.

Your never going to win given the consistent bull**** we all had to face this year with the playing group.

I think Symonds, Buhrer, Lawrence, Lui and JSL can compete with these big boys, but they need to do it in other ways not including bashing each other out of it.

Where does strategy, and game plan come from though? Geoff Toovey. Geoff had a deplorable game plan on the field (in the finals), and he let the psycho's run the asylum off the field. In fact, he failed miserably in all facets except the week to week season proper grind.

We won't compete with the GOOD teams while their are nitwits on the board, in the team & other areas causing disharmony.

Get this playing group all pulling together in the same direction, and buying into what we are trying to achieve, the worlds our oyster. Geoff has some work to do. He can only ride Des Hasler's coat tails so long before he's found out. We also need to cut the growing festering cancer inhibiting our team at present.

Tooves went wrong when he didn't pick Ballin, Buhrer, choc, Fa'aso or gift in that final game. All 5 were in our top 17 last year when we went all the way to the grand final yet this year he drops them. Add to that he pulls Hidges off halfway through the first final when if we won we could have had a week off. Really cannot work him out some times.

And Brent Kite didn't get a run all year!
 
MadMarcus said:
Ryan said:
Toovey's won 3 from 9 finals games since being here. All he has done is ride the coat tails of the system Hasler grew and produced, and it's now being ripped apart and flailing.

And how much of Tooves' salary cap is taken up in payments for Des' past glories? You don't think that would have bitten Des too if he stuck around? Some cynics might even go so far as to say it had a bit to do with him leaving.

What I DO see, is players leaving the Dogs like Inu & Ennis, yet they still put in for each other both on and off the park. Happens to every club.

Toovey has just allowed it to get the better of ours. Perry is to blame as well.

If other teams like The Storm / The Dogs can handle it, so should we. Back ending happens everywhere.


Fluffy said:
Ryan said:
I tend to disagree with the sentiment we'd get monstered. What actually struck me last night was The Rabbits team cohesion, passion and focus. They were in the trenches with each other, and no-one seemed to feel (to me anyway) that they were better than everyone else.

They were a well oiled, well coached team.

Manly towards the end had none of that, and this is why we lost 6 from our last 8 games or something. We lacked cohesion, we lacked hard work, we lacked passion, and we lacked heart.

I'd go as far as to say the players (or a certain section of them) acted and played unprofessionally.

Your never going to win given the consistent bull**** we all had to face this year with the playing group.

I think Symonds, Buhrer, Lawrence, Lui and JSL can compete with these big boys, but they need to do it in other ways not including bashing each other out of it.

Where does strategy, and game plan come from though? Geoff Toovey. Geoff had a deplorable game plan on the field (in the finals), and he let the psycho's run the asylum off the field. In fact, he failed miserably in all facets except the week to week season proper grind.

We won't compete with the GOOD teams while their are nitwits on the board, in the team & other areas causing disharmony.

Get this playing group all pulling together in the same direction, and buying into what we are trying to achieve, the worlds our oyster. Geoff has some work to do. He can only ride Des Hasler's coat tails so long before he's found out. We also need to cut the growing festering cancer inhibiting our team at present.

Tooves went wrong when he didn't pick Ballin, Buhrer, choc, Fa'aso or gift in that final game. All 5 were in our top 17 last year when we went all the way to the grand final yet this year he drops them. Add to that he pulls Hidges off halfway through the first final when if we won we could have had a week off. Really cannot work him out some times.

No, that much is true. But of coarse, we are the only club that has to deal with injuries, aren't we? A salary cap? Players injured 1/2 way through?

Compare our team's injuries to Penrith's. Guess what, they still won a semi final.

Love how you use Fa'aoso Fluffy as well. I really don't think that was an out of the blue, don't have time to replace type of injury.

So, so quick and easy to make excuses for failure. Every team has the same rules, caps, injuries, game plans Fluffy.

It's MANLY who looks embarrassing off the field from the playing group to the ridiculous board (I'd have none of them retained - they ALL need to be washed out - board wise). It's MANLY who are using excuses about injury (while we watch teams like The Panthers revel in it). It's ONLY Manly where the players like Foran / Watmough feel like they run the joint.

Leaderless. That's our problem. Comments from Brett and Anthony walking away from the camera talking about not being able to have an opinion - unprofessional.

So no, unlike you Fluffy, I won't be making excuses. Other teams don't, and can still hold an air of professionalism. I would not have cared if we came 16th, but didn't make excuses, and/or look shameful off the park - our leaders had balls, and our players professional.

We need management / ownership / board members with leadership skills. That's point one. Point two is we need players who want to play here, and bleed for the colours. Fans are turning to apathy with nitwits like Foran claiming he's interested one day, ready to pull a Dogs jersey the next.
 
@Ryan You are another who want to " blame the board", so which board do you wish to get rid of???

The Football Club or the Sea Eagles board.

The only one you ( and any of the actual members) can impact on is the Football Club board, we don't own the Sea Eagles and it's doubtfull any of the owners would step down .

So the only option is the FC board

And getting rid of them does either of two things.

1) gives complete and absolute power to the Penns
2) means status quo, kick the current board out but replace them with like minded people who will just do the same

Which are you in favour of??
 
Mark from Brisbane said:
@Ryan You are another who want to " blame the board", so which board do you wish to get rid of???

The Football Club or the Sea Eagles board.

The only one you ( and any of the actual members) can impact on is the Football Club board, we don't own the Sea Eagles and it's doubtfull any of the owners would step down .

So the only option is the FC board

And getting rid of them does either of two things.

1) gives complete and absolute power to the Penns
2) means status quo, kick the current board out but replace them with like minded people who will just do the same

Which are you in favour of??

The board that has a say over the playing group. The board that should be pulling Toovey into their offices, and saying, "take control of these blokes". Ok, I admit I think that actually DID happen, which is why some players were muzzled, but it was able to spiral out of control again, which is Perrry's, Toovey's, players, media and The Board's fault all combined - and maybe a little of the fans over reacting like me.

There is and was a distinct lack of leadership up top.

Regarding the board, I don't know who's on them, I don't care who's on them. I have no allegiances to anyone. All I ask is that we start looking like a professional unit off the park, not some Mickey Mouse, in fighting, shambles that the media have a field day with. As a paying season ticket holder and member, surely that's my right to want?

Why?

Because it detracts from my enjoyment about watching the team. I sit there watching the team I love, who helped me through a very tough situation this year, thinking, "look at Foran, that spoiled little entitled ****". "Look at Watmough, the trouble maker". I don't want to be thinking about these things.

We lost the majority of our last two months of football, and I think this time around we CAN point fingers at those responsible. The same guys wanting the earth and universe to tell them how wonderful they are.

I really can't include myself in a board debate, because I lack the knowledge about them, who they are, what they do to add any value. What I CAN say, is the board that's running the playing group and Toovey have failed to have the club be perceived as anything but a basket case. If there are two or three or four factions, then they should all be gone. I'm naming no-one.

The Rabbits look like a unified team. Teo and Burgess are leaving, but is everyone within their playing group whingeing, moaning, bitching. Merritt sits in reserve grade, but does he or the club moan and complain? NO. They dig in, play a mature brand of football, as it stands right now.

People can abuse and say what they like to me, but if I hear anymore bull****, while I'll monetarily support the club with being a season ticket holder again, because I vowed to do so, I'll just have apathy for Rugby League.

I support The Sea Eagles. I certainly don't support Kieran Foran, Anthony Watmough and a few others right now. It would actually be a relief to see them fark off, so the club could move forward positively with players that want to get in the trenches with each other, like we are seeing the Souths players do right now. Heck, even Parramatta, who finished below us appear to be having a better team spirit than us.
 
Good stuff Ryan. This season's off the field stuff has been a shambles and someone must get rid of the cancer/s and start again. In 50 years time no one will remember Foran or Watmough. It's the club that is us.
 
Ryan said:
Mark from Brisbane said:
@Ryan You are another who want to " blame the board", so which board do you wish to get rid of???

The Football Club or the Sea Eagles board.

The only one you ( and any of the actual members) can impact on is the Football Club board, we don't own the Sea Eagles and it's doubtfull any of the owners would step down .

So the only option is the FC board

And getting rid of them does either of two things.

1) gives complete and absolute power to the Penns
2) means status quo, kick the current board out but replace them with like minded people who will just do the same

Which are you in favour of??

The board that has a say over the playing group. The board that should be pulling Toovey into their offices, and saying, "take control of these blokes". Ok, I admit I think that actually DID happen, which is why some players were muzzled, but it was able to spiral out of control again, which is Perrry's, Toovey's, players, media and The Board's fault all combined - and maybe a little of the fans over reacting like me.

There is and was a distinct lack of leadership up top.

Regarding the board, I don't know who's on them, I don't care who's on them. I have no allegiances to anyone. All I ask is that we start looking like a professional unit off the park, not some Mickey Mouse, in fighting, shambles that the media have a field day with. As a paying season ticket holder and member, surely that's my right to want?

Why?

Because it detracts from my enjoyment about watching the team. I sit there watching the team I love, who helped me through a very tough situation this year, thinking, "look at Foran, that spoiled little entitled ...". "Look at Watmough, the trouble maker". I don't want to be thinking about these things.

We lost the majority of our last two months of football, and I think this time around we CAN point fingers at those responsible. The same guys wanting the earth and universe to tell them how wonderful they are.

I really can't include myself in a board debate, because I lack the knowledge about them, who they are, what they do to add any value. What I CAN say, is the board that's running the playing group and Toovey have failed to have the club be perceived as anything but a basket case. If there are two or three or four factions, then they should all be gone. I'm naming no-one.

The Rabbits look like a unified team. Teo and Burgess are leaving, but is everyone within their playing group whingeing, moaning, bitching. Merritt sits in reserve grade, but does he or the club moan and complain? NO. They dig in, play a mature brand of football, as it stands right now.

People can abuse and say what they like to me, but if I hear anymore bull****, while I'll monetarily support the club with being a season ticket holder again, because I vowed to do so, I'll just have apathy for Rugby League.

I support The Sea Eagles. I certainly don't support Kieran Foran, Anthony Watmough and a few others right now. It would actually be a relief to see them fark off, so the club could move forward positively with players that want to get in the trenches with each other, like we are seeing the Souths players do right now. Heck, even Parramatta, who finished below us appear to be having a better team spirit than us.


Just the one question Ryan....if we shed all these (so called) troublemakers and finish further down the ladder. Are you then going to be saying Toovey can't coach ?
 
Ryan said:
MadMarcus said:
And how much of Tooves' salary cap is taken up in payments for Des' past glories? You don't think that would have bitten Des too if he stuck around? Some cynics might even go so far as to say it had a bit to do with him leaving.

What I DO see, is players leaving the Dogs like Inu & Ennis, yet they still put in for each other both on and off the park. Happens to every club.

I love your passion mate but this is just BS. Our ridiculous back ending has been well documented. Manly is supposed to pay Choc $300k next year for services rendered during Des' reign. We paid Gifty a similar amount this year for services also rendered during Des' reign. They are just the most well-known ones - there are probably many others. I think Kingy may have been on a back-ended deal too.

If that happens at every club I certainly haven't heard of it. How many non-Manly players can you name who are back-ended to the tune of circa $300k?

The simple fact is that Tooves and Des are not competing on a level playing field.
 
Team P W L PD Pts
3 3 0 48 6
4 3 1 28 6
3 2 1 10 6
4 2 2 39 4
3 2 1 28 4
3 2 1 15 4
3 2 1 14 4
2 1 1 13 4
2 1 1 6 4
3 2 1 -3 4
3 1 2 0 2
3 1 2 -5 2
3 1 2 -15 2
3 1 2 -22 2
3 1 2 -36 2
2 0 2 -56 2
3 0 3 -64 0
Back
Top Bottom