[Resurrected] We are at rock bottom!

[Jerry1]

We are 6 points out of the 8. Half way thorough the season. Settle.

The real question is how do we have a better second half to the season and still retire the coach? Or do we need the spoon to get consensus on Toovey.

Tricky? A top 8 finish, or near, will be inconvenient to the anti-Toov camp.

Best Geoff gives notice now and we try and send him - and season - off with class.

To make the eight you need to be on 50 percent. So we need to win 9 from 12.

 

[Eagles2nv]

Well the squeels just blew a 24 point lead...

So things arnt that bad. 🙂

 

[Ralphie]

Just don't have the engine room grunt anymore. It's a sad fact that it could be a few years till we get the right mix again

I selected a random Round from 2014. Below was our Round 16 Team against the roosters.
Sea Eagles
1 Brett Stewart
2 Jorge Taufua
3 Jamie Lyon
4 Steve Matai
5 Peta Hiku
6 Kieran Foran
7 Daly Cherry-Evans
8 Josh Starling
9 Matt Ballin
10 Brenton Lawrence
11 Jamie Buhrer
12 Justin Horo
13 Dunamis Lui

Interchange
14 Jesse Sene-Lefao
15 James Hasson
16 Tom Symonds
17 Jason King

That team beat the Roosters 24-16 and we were on top of the table. I have highlighted the players that were different to last weekend. It's noteworthy that the backs were unchanged. In place of the forwards highlighted above we had the following:
8 Luke Burgess
10 Willie Mason
11 Blake Leary
Bench
Jake Turbo
Mateo
Ligi Sao

In my opinion the bench of Jake, Mateo & Sao is a stronger bench than JSL, Hasson & King collectively. I will also stick my neck out and say we haven't lost much with Blake Leary being there. So that leaves the problems (Apparently) solely in the starting props. I don't know what this really says, because surely with the bulk of last years team there, the excuses should be evaporating.

My suspicion is that losing has become a habit, Foran continues with his disinterest and injuries has impacted. The reality is though, it is mostly attitude and that is the coaches responsibility.

 

[Alby]

I selected a random Round from 2014. Below was our Round 16 Team against the roosters.
Sea Eagles
1 Brett Stewart
2 Jorge Taufua
3 Jamie Lyon
4 Steve Matai
5 Peta Hiku
6 Kieran Foran
7 Daly Cherry-Evans
8 Josh Starling
9 Matt Ballin
10 Brenton Lawrence
11 Jamie Buhrer
12 Justin Horo
13 Dunamis Lui

Interchange
14 Jesse Sene-Lefao
15 James Hasson
16 Tom Symonds
17 Jason King

That team beat the Roosters 24-16 and were were on top of the table. I have highlighted the players that were different to last weekend. It's noteworthy that the backs were unchanged. In place of the forwards highlighted above we had the following:
8 Luke Burgess
10 Willie Mason
11 Blake Leary
Bench
Jake Turbo
Mateo
Ligi Sao

In my opinion the bench of Jake, Mateo & Sao is a stronger bench than JSL, Hasson & King collectively. I will also stick my neck out and say we haven't lost much with Blake Leary being there. So that leaves the problems (Apparently) solely in the starting props. I don't know what this really says, because surely with the bulk of last years team there, the excuses should be evaporating.

My suspicion is that losing has become a habit, Foran continues with his disinterest and injuries has impacted. The reality is though, it is mostly attitude and that is the coaches responsibility.

Real good assessment there Ralphie, and agree on all points.

Our 2014 props were matching it with other teams, not dominating, but matching it. 2015 props - not so.

Another observation to add to our rock bottom position:

• Jamie Lyon coming off mid-game, is always going to guarantee a loss (which is happening more often this season). Teams pick up on the defensive deficiency this creates, and we start to leak points.

 

[bones]

That's impossible. We can't be rock bottom. The Penn's have full control.

 

[Wombat Legacy]

I selected a random Round from 2014. Below was our Round 16 Team against the roosters.
Sea Eagles
1 Brett Stewart
2 Jorge Taufua
3 Jamie Lyon
4 Steve Matai
5 Peta Hiku
6 Kieran Foran
7 Daly Cherry-Evans
8 Josh Starling
9 Matt Ballin
10 Brenton Lawrence
11 Jamie Buhrer
12 Justin Horo
13 Dunamis Lui

Interchange
14 Jesse Sene-Lefao
15 James Hasson
16 Tom Symonds
17 Jason King

That team beat the Roosters 24-16 and we were on top of the table. I have highlighted the players that were different to last weekend. It's noteworthy that the backs were unchanged. In place of the forwards highlighted above we had the following:
8 Luke Burgess
10 Willie Mason
11 Blake Leary
Bench
Jake Turbo
Mateo
Ligi Sao

In my opinion the bench of Jake, Mateo & Sao is a stronger bench than JSL, Hasson & King collectively. I will also stick my neck out and say we haven't lost much with Blake Leary being there. So that leaves the problems (Apparently) solely in the starting props. I don't know what this really says, because surely with the bulk of last years team there, the excuses should be evaporating.

My suspicion is that losing has become a habit, Foran continues with his disinterest and injuries has impacted. The reality is though, it is mostly attitude and that is the coaches responsibility.

Good post backed up with some positive concern, rather than just trashing our players.
Your pretty right there with the losing mentality. We lack confidence, but more importantly have a very injured squad. Game after game players are taking the field with significant injuries and our back ups are not adequate for NRL. Toovey is sticking solid with a few guys, but the return efforts of some are just not 100% as they should be. I really hope we can turn things around, because my weekends are becoming very unpleasant 😉
But saying the players don't care or are not trying is just not on for me. I leave that for twits like Ryan. How some of you condone his and his mates constant rants about our players and coaches leaves me dumb founded. It is a Manly supporter forum after all. Stick solid guys, and show faith in the boys to turn things around.

 

[Fluffy]

So 6 forwards missing from last year, including all the pigs and we are not expected to suffer?

 

[BOZO]

Good post backed up with some positive concern, rather than just trashing our players.
Your pretty right there with the losing mentality. We lack confidence, but more importantly have a very injured squad. Game after game players are taking the field with significant injuries and our back ups are not adequate for NRL. Toovey is sticking solid with a few guys, but the return efforts of some are just not 100% as they should be. I really hope we can turn things around, because my weekends are becoming very unpleasant 😉
But saying the players don't care or are not trying is just not on for me. I leave that for twits like Ryan. How some of you condone his and his mates constant rants about our players and coaches leaves me dumb founded. It is a Manly supporter forum after all. Stick solid guys, and show faith in the boys to turn things around.

Manly for ever for sure !!! Unfortunately our forward pack is not Manly enough to carry our winning Manly ways and in order for us to be the real Manly once again we will be having a spring clean out at the end of the season . Go the mighty Sea eagles for ever and ever amen

 

[Duff]

Faith has no place in anything Wombat, you need to look at evidence.
I'm not saying i necessarily disagree with you, but if all we have is faith that things will turn around, i find this a bit scary. I want to see evidence that those involved want to turn it around. Sometimes we do, in patches, it seems like they forget they hate one another for a minute and do their thing, then they remember to kick stones again.

If it's not a lack of care, and we know it's not a lack of ability, what is it?
Stupid selections? Lack of fitness? Synchronised form slumps?

The positive brigade want to think we'll turn it around, but who are we going to beat? We don't just need to beat teams either, we need to outplay them by a long way or the refs will do enough to get the opposition over the line. The NRL are extra mad at us now and barred up at the thought of us getting a spoon.

 

[Loobs]

If you look at last years run honestly, we had the rub of the green in quite a few games and decisions so therefore, the final standing was a bit of a false positive. But if you apply the same eye this year, 2015 is probably a false negative. The truth is probably somewhere in between.

 

[BOZO]

So 6 forwards missing from last year, including all the pigs and we are not expected to suffer?

Unless we get rid of all these inconsistent underperforming NRL level pretenders (forwards) we will continue to suffer

 

[Wombat Legacy]

Faith has no place in anything Wombat, you need to look at evidence.
I'm not saying i necessarily disagree with you, but if all we have is faith that things will turn around, i find this a bit scary. I want to see evidence that those involved want to turn it around. Sometimes we do, in patches, it seems like they forget they hate one another for a minute and do their thing, then they remember to kick stones again.

If it's not a lack of care, and we know it's not a lack of ability, what is it?
Stupid selections? Lack of fitness? Synchronised form slumps?

The positive brigade want to think we'll turn it around, but who are we going to beat? We don't just need to beat teams either, we need to outplay them by a long way or the refs will do enough to get the opposition over the line. The NRL are extra mad at us now and barred up at the thought of us getting a spoon.

No, don't get me wrong. I agree measured long term changes are due-no doubts there. I am merely stating that we need to be a little patient, as I am sure the club sees the same issues we do. You only have x amount of depth in a squad, and our is depleted. We don't have the cover for key positions and the forward pack is certainly misfiring.
In the NRL you only need to down 5% and you will get lapped every week. All I say is show faith in the players out on the ground. Now more than ever they need to hear our support. Not listen to our fans say how hopeless, old and unfit they are. Just my thoughts

 

[Wombat Legacy]

Unless we get rid of all these inconsistent underperforming NRL level pretenders (forwards) we will continue to suffer

Agree, we need to recalibrate the forward pack. But when you get constantly beaten, the will to win certainly comes into question. Some are better equipped than others mentally for that. In tough times, we can clearly see those who lead and strive to win and those that wait for somebody else to do it for them.
The team has huge mental issues right now, and constant injuries to KEY players does not help. I will be there cheering next home game, urging the boys on. That's all I can do to help-I urge you to do the same.

 

[Ralphie]

So 6 forwards missing from last year, including all the pigs and we are not expected to suffer?

Yes, but of those six only the 2 starting props are inferior, the remaining 4 are at least the equal of last season.
Pack:
Leary = Buhrer
Mason < Lawrence
Burgess < Starling
Bench:
Jake T = or > Jason King
Sao = or > JSL
Mateo > Hasson

This simply cannot be the only reason for going from 1st to last in less than a season.

 

[Ralphie]

I hope the 2016 squad looks something like this:

1. Snake – No explanation required
2. Tom Turbo – Serving his Apprenticeship
3. Hiku – Centre is his best position
4. Matai – No Explanation required
5. Gutherson – Must be in the side (1st Choice Goal kicker)
6. Killer – Our only viable option in 2016
7. DCE – No explanation required
8. Myles – A hard head to start
9. Ballin – No explanation required
10. Lussick – A hard head to start
11. Leary – A big future ahead
12. Symonds – No explanation required
13. Buhrer – No explanation required
14. Jake Turbo – Permanent 1st grader now
15. Lawrence – No explanation required
16. Starling – No explanation required
17. Sao – Permanent 1st grader now
18. Hodges
19. Burgess
20. Mateo
21. Horo
22. Lui
23. Satini
24. JSL
25. Tyson Andrews
26. Vave
27. Tafua

Release the following players
Mason, Hasson, Wolf.

 

[Fluffy]

Yes, but of those six only the 2 starting props are inferior, the remaining 4 are at least the equal of last season.
Pack:
Leary = Buhrer
Mason < Lawrence
Burgess < Starling
Bench:
Jake T = or > Jason King
Sao = or > JSL
Mateo > Hasson

This simply cannot be the only reason for going from 1st to last in less than a season.

Not the only reason, only twice this year have we started with our top backline and we have finished 9 of 12 games including the first 7 with a least 1 injured player, quite often more than 1. Symonds has spent more time at center than in the backrow.

If you want to go back and do a genuine comparison then count the games missed this year compared to last year. This year we are at 75, even with gift missing most of the season that would eclipse last years total. The team changes every week even with a coach who doesn't seem to like changing things, surely that tells you something. Combination just cannot blossom without time.

Add to that Foran playing injured and looking uninterested and DCE's contract dramas you have a

 

[Ralphie]

Not the only reason, only twice this year have we started with our top backline and we have finished 9 of 12 games including the first 7 with a least 1 injured player, quite often more than 1. Symonds has spent more time at center than in the backrow.

If you want to go back and do a genuine comparison then count the games missed this year compared to last year. This year we are at 75, even with gift missing most of the season that would eclipse last years total. The team changes every week even with a coach who doesn't seem to like changing things, surely that tells you something. Combination just cannot blossom without time.

Add to that Foran playing injured and looking uninterested and DCE's contract dramas you have a

That just confirms what I am saying. The results this season are largely being blamed on the forwards. That doesn't wash when you compare the pack from last season to this season.

 

[Hamster Huey]

That's impossible. We can't be rock bottom. The Penn's have full control.

And we aren't Eels fans!

There is always some less fortunate than us.

 

[Fluffy]

That just confirms what I am saying. The results this season are largely being blamed on the forwards. That doesn't wash when you compare the pack from last season to this season.

Thats because they are easier to blame. However we are minimum 3 starting forwards short on last years pack which is a big hurdle that would hurt any team in the comp

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Regardless I'm a Manly fan for life, and will cheer all who run out in the Maroon & White.

I don't think we will get the spoon, but I also don't think we will make the 8.

Tough year but **** does happen!