Trust me ..

[jbb/james]

I think we are are pretty easy footy team to defend against. The up and in defence seems a line too far for us to breach and sirro just takes the cheap metres on the inside i think

I am in awe of how other teams can race off the 10 and we always get pinged. There is a bias in this area

 

[maxta]

Your points are true ... but that is not what is happening here ... it is not an inside ball ... it is Siro consistently running the line back under the play the ball .... and the lack of any next play wrapping around to take advantage of any defenders drawn in ... makes it appear to me to not be tactical ...

The fact is tactically it is serving no purpose .... and IMO having a huge negative effect on the back line attack ... specifically Suli and by association .. Garrick ..

I have seen Sirro catch the out ball and cut back inside if that's what you mean ?
He scored against Cows recently with a similar carry from 10m out.
There is another thing to consider that comes back to Sirro's natural attacking preference, ge has a better swerve off his right foot and Maybe prefers using his right fend as opposed to his left that will favour him running that right to left angle ??
It's like David Fifita will travel right, as he has that left fend, so IF he was used on the left edge in attack, you would find he would also cut back in due to this factor....yet he is usually on the right to exploit his left fend.

 

[Woodsie]

A small sample .. I grant ... but the concensus appears to be that our right hand side attack is being hindered to a degree by the style of Siro .... running back under, not linking with Suli, attack to flat etc etc ...

So back to my initial question .... Are they being coached to play that way .... Are the players just doin they's own thang .... or do we not know what we are talking about ??

 

[Woodsie]

I have seen Sirro catch the out ball and cut back inside if that's what you mean ?
He scored against Cows recently with a similar carry from 10m out.
There is another thing to consider that comes back to Sirro's natural attacking preference, ge has a better swerve off his right foot and Maybe prefers using his right fend as opposed to his left that will favour him running that right to left angle ??
It's like David Fifita will travel right, as he has that left fend, so IF he was used on the left edge in attack, you would find he would also cut back in due to this factor....yet he is usually on the right to exploit his left fend.

Max ... Siro runs the line back inside on our own 20m line, our own 30m line, the half way line, the attacking 40m line , the attacking 30m line ... in fact 90% of the time .... Suli and Garrick must have spiders on them ..

And yes ... close in he will hit the line at pace to score ... but that is not the issue ...

 

[Chip and Chase]

They way I look at it is who decides how and when Siro gets the ball ?? The inside ball is either a called play or at some point he decides he's getting crowded out and reverts to an inside line ?

There is 4 options I suppose if you are Siro

A) you get early ball and make your own heads up play - run and look for line break/offload or ball play to centre
B) you run a "hole" line and either get hit with a pass or cut out, hopefully attracting some defenders either way
C) you get crowded out of the play by crabbing from inside and you cut back inside the ball as an option
D) you are aware of inside run call and inside man engages line to interest defence and you cut against the grain with effort

A) and B) can bring Suli into play. C) and D) not so much

I see too much C) and not enough A) and B) which kills Suli's contribution. Not sure if that's game plan or on field calls. We also don't use a sweep play on that side with fullback running outside shoulder of Siro to make extra man for out the back pass. Not a lot of fluency on that right side without the threat of Tommy chiming in.

 

[Newcastle Eagle]

i was being facetious (sorry Des), but meaning another element of predictability in our play ala Cherry gets ball on last tackle.(hopefully Cust remains 5/8 and helps out). Inject the fullback into the line as Tafua will come in to cover exposing the wing to kick in behind or harbour bridge pass. Just an opinion.

 

[maxta]

A small sample .. I grant ... but the concensus appears to be that our right hand side attack is being hindered to a degree by the style of Siro .... running back under, not linking with Suli, attack to flat etc etc ...

So back to my initial question .... Are they being coached to play that way .... Are the players just doin they's own thang .... or do we not know what we are talking about ??

I think I now follow your call Woodsie and stick by "every"player has a natural drift - right or left.....Sirro favours that direction, which happens to take him back "inside"-I don't think he is avoiding Suli at all - well not on purpose....just maybe, is he a better right edge backrower ??
As for being flat, that's a complete different issue due to poor attacking organisation and structure, which unfortunately at Manly is on both right and left....in actual fact I have seen Suli unleash Garrick on the right, far more than Iv'e seen Parker release Taufua on the left.

 

[maxta]

Max ... Siro runs the line back inside on our own 20m line, our own 30m line, the half way line, the attacking 40m line , the attacking 30m line ... in fact 90% of the time .... Suli and Garrick must have spiders on them ..

And yes ... close in he will hit the line at pace to score ... but that is not the issue ...

As I say mate, that's his natural footy instincts - right to left....maybe he is left edge backrower playing on the right ??
But to be fair, we hardly set the world alight down the left side...I think Garrick has seen a lot more daylight than Taufua, the Manly structures are built around blowing up the middle to a large degree and with Fainu and Turbu, would be close to unstoppable in the modern game...but not to be

 

[nightster]

I like Siro but he is no Gifty ... he does starve Suli of good ball and imho he does turn back inside, and die with the ball, too often

 

[HK_Eagle]

The fact is, too expose the outside defence, the inside ball is a ploy to both exploit lazy inside defenders and also vacuum the outside defenders in....which on the back of a fast play ball will give Suli an outside alley or a 1 on 1 against his opposite number....it's far from taking the Sirro option over Suli.
To be fair, it's a very good way of creating space as drop plays, turning your runner under, will create chaos and eventually unhinge the middle doors creating options wide...those who go wide without knocking down the middle will end up sideways and often in the grandstand.
As for Suli, he does wait for the game to come to him and needs to hunt down the ball with a little more zest and involvement, but personally don't see him as lazy.

I tend to agree with this. In addition, I would hope DCE keeps half an eye on how the outside defenders are responding as Siro comes into play and waits for that moment where an outside defender starts reacting and drifting inside too much/too soon or for those occasional moments when the outside defence numbers aren't lining up and then he will hit an outside runner instead. Until he sees that it makes sense to turn Siro back on the inside for the reasons made by Maxta.

 

[Harmless27]

is Siro the only person allowed to pass to Suli?

I think i've missed something here. is the issue that Suli is lazy, or that Siro doesn't pass to him? Feels like two very different things

For what its worth - I like both of them. I don't think they're a good 'combo' but hey!

 

[jbb/james]

is Siro the only person allowed to pass to Suli?

I think i've missed something here. is the issue that Suli is lazy, or that Siro doesn't pass to him? Feels like two very different things

For what its worth - I like both of them. I don't think they're a good 'combo' but hey!

Yeah, you missed stuff

 

[mickqld]

Apart from the Penrith and Goons thrashing we've managed to score enough points to win against Knights, Warriors and Gummies. Our problem is defense or lack of it. I don't see how Tom and Walker makes that much difference to our defence. It's the constant injury disruptions in the forwards and reorganization during games in the backline that has killed us. Once again last week without Elliot, Cust getting injured we smoke that game easily. Weeks before without Taupau getting decapitated weeks before AFB, Walker come back, Parker, Suli, its been every FUKING week the same. No continuity of team constant rearranging positions.

 

[Highflier]

Sirro is an X 5/8 so s/b able to line his outside man up for a pass you would think.
For me I always think they look to bunched on that side and there is too much running across and not direct enough and then of course Sirro comes back in field to the meat of the ruck .The few times Suli has got away and even been in a position to throw to Garrick (who goes alright given some ball and a bit of space) has been when they have created a bit of space on that side from direct running and a quick play the ball as opposed to cross field style running .i.e the 1st Newcastle game I think in the dying minutes and numerous times against that filthy Souffs team last year in that corrupt semi final where we was robbed blind
Im not a coach who knows how to fix it ,but to sum up its run hard- run straight -get up with energy - play the ball quickly and correctly so as to give the play behind , time and space for attack

 

[Kevinward777]

My wife always say’s, never trust a person who feels the need to say “trust me.”

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Apart from the Penrith and Goons thrashing we've managed to score enough points to win against Knights, Warriors and Gummies. Our problem is defense or lack of it. I don't see how Tom and Walker makes that much difference to our defence. It's the constant injury disruptions in the forwards and reorganization during games in the backline that has killed us. Once again last week without Elliot, Cust getting injured we smoke that game easily. Weeks before without Taupau getting decapitated weeks before AFB, Walker come back, Parker, Suli, its been every FUKING week the same. No continuity of team constant rearranging positions.

Probably one of the most accurate posts on here all year , injuries during games ( and sometimes multiple ones ) have just killed any momentum we ever had.

Sadly just not our year ......note how few injuries the front runners have had , not sure if it’s something we do or are not doing but it’s happening year after year recently.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Hey Woodsie isn’t that what Real Estate Agents always say “ Trust Me”!!!

Interesting thread title

 

[The better Robbo]

Siro has forgotten how to run a hole. This was his strength last year. Can't be coaching to cut under because it is flat out awful at best

 

[mickqld]

Siro has forgotten how to run a hole. This was his strength last year. Can't be coaching to cut under because it is flat out awful at best

It's FUKING irritating at best. Surely it's not our tactic to do the same sh*t week after week and not be surprised that it doesn't FUKING work.

 

[Tomay]

He cuts inside when our attack is going sideways and the defence is adequately numbered up. It’s mostly a symptom of slow play the balls. I’m glad he does it because it stops us running out of space on the side and going into touch or having to burn a play on the next tackle to centre it. If there’s enough room they will cut him out and throw it to Suli to put on his fend.