Trust me ..

[Woodsie]

There will be some unkind souls amongst you, that will choose to believe I am stirring the pot here ... however, I assure you ... my desire for your opinions are genuine ...

What prompted my pondering was a post for @Newcastle Eagle in another read that described Siro's penchant for continuing to run back infield as a form of agoraphobia ..." Back inside ,back inside, ad infinitum."

So here are a few questions ..

(1) Is Siro ignoring Suli and turning back inside a part of the coaches instructions and Des is happy with it ... or has the coach ... a) not noticed .. or b) Been unable to cure Siro of the habit ?

(2) If Suli is lazy as many have suggested ... Then a) Des hasn't noticed or care ... or b) Been unable to change him after nearly 2 years coaching ?

PSS .. please feel free to raise additional ... real questions ...

 

[ricardo]

Interesting question. I had a look at:

NRL Premiership Players Statistics | FOX SPORTS Lab

Players Statistics Table for NRL Premiership

www.foxsports.com.au

I'm not sure what this tells me, but I've never thought Suli was lazy. I've also thought Siro's penchant for cutting back inside fine and reminiscent of our best second row balls runners.

 

[Pete the Eagle]

There will be some unkind souls amongst you, that will choose to believe I am stirring the pot here ... however, I assure you ... my desire for your opinions are genuine ...

What prompted my pondering was a post for @Newcastle Eagle in another read that described Siro's penchant for continuing to run back infield as a form of agoraphobia ..." Back inside ,back inside, ad infinitum."

So here are a few questions ..

(1) Is Siro ignoring Suli and turning back inside a part of the coaches instructions and Des is happy with it ... or has the coach ... a) not noticed .. or b) Been unable to cure Siro of the habit ?

(2) If Suli is lazy as many have suggested ... Then a) Des hasn't noticed or care ... or b) Been unable to change him after nearly 2 years coaching ?

PSS .. please feel free to raise additional ... real questions ...

I have pondered on the running back inside myself , time and time again to be stopped , when Suli etc are outside , and often room as well , sadly i have no answer to this without talking to Des himself .However if Suli is indeed lazy HE MUST BE CUT , we cant afford to carry dead wood.
Maybe Siro just dont like Suli ??

 

[Shoe1]

There will be some unkind souls amongst you, that will choose to believe I am stirring the pot here ... however, I assure you ... my desire for your opinions are genuine ...

What prompted my pondering was a post for @Newcastle Eagle in another read that described Siro's penchant for continuing to run back infield as a form of agoraphobia ..." Back inside ,back inside, ad infinitum."

So here are a few questions ..

(1) Is Siro ignoring Suli and turning back inside a part of the coaches instructions and Des is happy with it ... or has the coach ... a) not noticed .. or b) Been unable to cure Siro of the habit ?

(2) If Suli is lazy as many have suggested ... Then a) Des hasn't noticed or care ... or b) Been unable to change him after nearly 2 years coaching ?

PSS .. please feel free to raise additional ... real questions ...

I think it is a tactic to give suli space - it brings the defence in to cover sirro, hopefully getting suli one on one with his opposite.

Problem is it is now too predictable

 

[manlyfan76]

Does Suli stand too shallow?

 

[Budgie]

I honestly don’t know what Des sees anymore. If he can’t see Garrick is a disaster at fullback then I have no idea how he can see anything. I don’t think Suli’s the kind of kid to speak up so it’s up to Des to identify the problem. Actually brings the question who is able to speak to Des with advice and suggestions.

 

[ricardo]

Also, "lazy" Suli has our second highest run metres (more than even our great JT off fewer games):

 

[TWO DOGS]

I'm not sure why but it is predictable. I think Cherry calls that play and passes to Siro.

 

[stoodamire]

My take on Suli’s laziness has to do with his defensive and off the ball efforts.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

I'm not sure why but it is predictable. I think Cherry calls that play and passes to Siro.

I think so, too. And maybe Siro is too eager to get his hands on the ball. But it would be nice if he got out of the way every now and then so that Suli could get some clean, early ball. Somebody has to pass it to him. Whether it's Cherry or Siro, I don't care. Otherwise he only gets a touch if he runs from dummy half or takes a hit-up.

 

[ManEagle]

I think we stand to shallow in attack and crowd the ball player. When the defence rushes up the intended plan whatever that is goes sideways and they revert back to the Siro back inside run because they have no option by that time.
Suli and DCE did the exact same play on the weekend when Funa looked unmarked and Siro wasn't in the line.
More a DCE call on field than a Des blind moment, they obviously train it but for what ever reason don't set up on field become rushed and as peeps have said the defence knows from that point what is happening.

Drumstick is hit and miss with his defence sometimes lazy like Sunday sometimes better. His laziness appears to be more so when a kick is up then when its one on one ball play. Maybe he thinks it's not his job once a kick goes up and his winger and Fb are around maybe his junior coaches trained him that way and Des is hard pressed to change in 2 years what was ingrained reactions from years of enforcement.
I have no answers only Des can.
Just my 2 bobs

 

[Woodsie]

I think it is a tactic to give suli space - it brings the defence in to cover sirro, hopefully getting suli one on one with his opposite.

Problem is it is now too predictable

Would agree ... if the follow up play was a wrap around to Suli after Siro had dragged the defence infield , but that doesn't appear to be the case ... but I will watch closer to see if the follow up play has any method in it ...

Personally I would prefer Siro working more to put Suli into gaps ...

 

[mosto]

I'm a fan of Siro but this year that run back underneath is all he does. He is a brilliant hole runner which DCE has exploited previously. I'd like to see him get back to hitting the hole hard on the edge. If and when the defence starts to jam in to defend that it will leave space to dummy and hit Suli out the back. I'm no coach (I can't even get my U7's side to form an even defensive line) but seems a play where not using enough, or at all.

 

[Woodsie]

I honestly don’t know what Des sees anymore. If he can’t see Garrick is a disaster at fullback then I have no idea how he can see anything. I don’t think Suli’s the kind of kid to speak up so it’s up to Des to identify the problem. Actually brings the question who is able to speak to Des with advice and suggestions.

Apparently Gifty was known to have Dessie's ear ...

 

[Woodsie]

Does Suli stand too shallow?

I think we all do .... it is part of the modern game flat attacks .... but I am noticing more teams going back to a deeper layered back lines when in the attacking zone .... we just haven't yet ... or won't ?

 

[jbb/james]

Its not a new theory that suli is ignored. A combination of having Cherry and the sirro double inside step on the one side leaves suli playing second row, sirro plays lock because jake plays halfback

If i were suli id be knocking parker out myself to get to the other side of the field. Both cust and walker have had things moving so even thommo has looked as dangerous as sirro at times and joel has had an average season thus far

Sirros offload doesnt suit that side of the field

I would have kept lane and moved sirro on.

Cherries most effective play is when he drfts accross field about 10m out and slips a face ball so he can duck out of the line before contact. Both lane and sirro were our tryscorers in recent seasons off that play, literally falling over the line
Sirros lines have vanished because he is closer to the action even though he is not. Probably picking up some of apis/ jakes slack

 

[Shoe1]

Would agree ... if the follow up play was a wrap around to Suli after Siro had dragged the defence infield , but that doesn't appear to be the case ... but I will watch closer to see if the follow up play has any method in it ...

Personally I would prefer Siro working more to put Suli into gaps ...

It also needs dce to mix it up and go long to suli cutting out sirro now and then, but suli seems to shallow in attack a lot of the time.

I remember it working in the early rounds when Tom was chiming in to the backline. Sirro would cut back in on a few runs, then on a later set on dce would find tom and suli, while sirro ran his usual line back inside, engaging the middle and edge forward defender, resulting in the centre having to tackle suli without help from his second rower.

It's a good play but it needs a dynamic fullback as part of the equation.

 

[maxta]

The fact is, too expose the outside defence, the inside ball is a ploy to both exploit lazy inside defenders and also vacuum the outside defenders in....which on the back of a fast play ball will give Suli an outside alley or a 1 on 1 against his opposite number....it's far from taking the Sirro option over Suli.
To be fair, it's a very good way of creating space as drop plays, turning your runner under, will create chaos and eventually unhinge the middle doors creating options wide...those who go wide without knocking down the middle will end up sideways and often in the grandstand.
As for Suli, he does wait for the game to come to him and needs to hunt down the ball with a little more zest and involvement, but personally don't see him as lazy.

 

[Woodsie]

The fact is, too expose the outside defence, the inside ball is a ploy to both exploit lazy inside defenders and also vacuum the outside defenders in....which on the back of a fast play ball will give Suli an outside alley or a 1 on 1 against his opposite number....it's far from taking the Sirro option over Suli.
To be fair, it's a very good way of creating space as drop plays, turning your runner under, will create chaos and eventually unhinge the middle doors creating options wide...those who go wide without knocking down the middle will end up sideways and often in the grandstand.
As for Suli, he does wait for the game to come to him and needs to hunt down the ball with a little more zest and involvement, but personally don't see him as lazy.

Your points are true ... but that is not what is happening here ... it is not an inside ball ... it is Siro consistently running the line back under the play the ball .... and the lack of any next play wrapping around to take advantage of any defenders drawn in ... makes it appear to me to not be tactical ...

The fact is tactically it is serving no purpose .... and IMO having a huge negative effect on the back line attack ... specifically Suli and by association .. Garrick ..

 

[Tragic Eagle]

We are too flat and referees rarely penalise our opponents for being inside the 10 so they are usually all over us. When in the attacking zone we need depth and to hit holes at pace. We don't do that often enough.