Toovey or Hasler..who is the best coach?

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HoldenV8 said:
COMMANDER said:
Des, on the back of getting that Dogs team into a gf this year.

Sorry but the fact is that if not for referee incompetence (i.e. failing to call Grub Reynolds when he was at least 2-3 metres offside), then the Dogs wouldn't have even made the Prelim Final, let alone the Grand Final. Had the refs been doing their job Killer would have had a penalty from virtually right in front of the posts and as it was in golden point it would have been game over then and there. Not saying we would have won the GF even if we got past the Riff in the Prelim, but we definitely would have finished higher than the Scumdogs in the final wash up.

Put simply, the Dogs only finished higher than us this year because of a complete howler by the refs. And if not for our late season injuries Souffs would have had a much bigger fight on their hands.

Personally though, I don't really want to compare the two. IMO both are good coaches. Des won two premierships with Manly, but now he's gone. In Tooves we trust.

You don't think the 18 nil headstart we gave them had anything to do with the final result?
 
Hasler 5 GFs for 2 wins plus finals in 10/11 seasons.
Toovey 1 GF no wins finals in 3/3 seasons.
No contest. Hasler by miles.
 
Also should have been another GF win for hasker as the scum were stripped of it for cheating.
 
The way Willow keeps bringing up the young guys would make any NRL coach look good. I think we all know Willow is the puppet master behind our success.



;)
 
I think Tooves needs a few more years before an accurate comparison can be made. De$$ie has a great record. Simple. You cannot argue that point.

De$$ie was (and still is) a meticulous coach, planning each game and each player's role in it to the Nth degree. In particular teams coached by De$$ie had a great defensive ethos, and with that defensive strength came the ability to grind opposition teams into submission. Under his guidance we seemingly always had a plan and in general it was wel executed by a very strong playing group. Great coach? Absolutely. Great man? You don't try to ensure that the club you're leaving is hurting through actions you took and processes you set in place... so no.

Tooves has had just three seasons as head coach. His win percentage is at 60% (vs De$ at 59%, although with roughly 3 x the games. At Canterbury, his ratio echoes Tooves' at 60% in roughly the same time). I think it's a little early to make a solid judgement... Personally, I prefer the style of play we run with under Tooves: a bit more open and attacking with a little more freedom given to the ball players, but we lack that defensive grunt that'd beat a team down when de$ coached. Perhaps this comes down to the cattle, and the fact that hard hits are punishable these days (sadly, the Bulldogs have lead the way in the art of "laying down" to milk penalties and perhaps driven this change?).

I referred earlier to De$'s meticulous approach, always playing the long game and planning. I believe this approach has actually affected Tooves' tenure as coach. De$$ie damn well knew he was leaving at the end of his contract (I believe his actions, which lead to his early dismissal, were aimed at him leaving ASAP.. I've no proof whatsoever, but it's a gut feeling... and also, it's the Internet: so there!!) and planned to scoop as much cream off the top as he could on the way out. Perhaps him leaving early was a blessing: a whole year with him having close contact with the young guns coming through would have almost certainly have seen DCE and Foz at the bulldogs by now, perhaps with a few other strong players from our roster. I digress...

The fact is De$$ie left post 2011 (which would have been post 2012 at the latest) and his exit coincided nicely (over the next few seasons) with some rather large back-ended deals coming to fruition. These were the deals that gave us short term gain (spectacular gains really: 3 GF's with 2 premierships!!) but were always, at some point, going to leave us salary cap compromised. Fortunately for De$$ie, he's moved to a club that has no problemo with either cash or the salary cap! Tooves, however, was left holding the basket.

In 2012 we finished in 4th, and bowed out (badly grrr :( ) in the prelim against the eventual premiers. Tooves did well keeping a team that could easily have imploded on the field and in the fight. In 2013, we fought our way to 2nd on the ladder, and lost in GF to the well supported Rorters. Realistically, we were physically drained after a tough fight to get there, and just couldn't hold on in the face of a monster Rorters packed that was well rested and superbly refereed. 2014... Player disharmony, contract sh*tfights, a lightweight forward pack, constant media attacks fuelled by in-house leaks... We still managed 2nd at the end of the season, and again fell in the preliminary final... Albeit having at least $1m or more worth of vitally important players sitting on the bench.

Taking these things into account... Tooves has done pretty bloody well. In his golden years at Manly, De$$ie had some pretty strong teams. Tooves hasn't quite had as well balanced a unit, and a lot of external pressures beyond his control that definately affected his team.

So I reckon that we should revisit this in a few years, when Tooves has a few more seasons under his belt, especially now that De$'s influence is beginning to disappear.

Apologies for the essay... Bored, sitting at home awaiting a knee operation lol..
 
It's apples to oranges here.

Hasler is a veteran coach with 11 years experience and imo the best coach in the game.

Tooves is only 3 years in and is doing a good job and would still be learning.
 

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