The Salary Crap

[The Who]

Another random thought.
...a points cap would essentially guarantee the best player in the league would also play at one of the two or three richest clubs.

I think we can all agree that Cleary is currently no1 in the league.

Expensive in points no doubt but every team would be delighted to build around him.

He'd cost the same points to all clubs (bar maybe a slight reduction for Penrith).

Seems fair, but realistically not all clubs can get Nath. The richest clubs, Broncos, Roosters, Redcliffe etc could offer him 5mil a year or more, Manly could never afford that. Ergo Manly would never have the best plyer in the comp.

Cleary is a local junior, thus he'd get a reduction of points if he stayed loyal. Plus he would get a further deduction for playing 100 matches for Penrith. So, for Penrith he'd be judged a 3, but a 5 for all other clubs. It gives Penrith further incentive to retain him, and gives them a deserved 2-point advantage over other clubs.

 

[Disco]

Cleary is a local junior, thus he'd get a reduction of points if he stayed loyal. Plus he would get a further deduction for playing 100 matches for Penrith. So, for Penrith he'd be judged a 3, but a 5 for all other clubs. It gives Penrith further incentive to retain him, and gives them a deserved 2-point advantage over other clubs.

Penrith can have whatever discount they like but for the best player in the game the other 16 clubs will happily use the 5 points. So it comes down to the richest clubs who'd pay the the most.

 

[Disco]

We'll never know the truth about offers or salaries so you can forget that pipe dream.
The current salary system doesn't work. It hides the truth and lends itself to rorting. There needs to be a better way. I'm sure a points-based system would be fairer and welcomed by fans.

Oh I agree but personally I think any thought of a point system is a pipe dream too.

You haven't addressed how player remuneration and contracts would work??

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Points system doesn't seem viable to me, for reasons others have outlined.

The main problem with the current system is that fans simply don't have faith in it. This comes down to how it is structured, and how it is enforced. Some overseas sports seem to do better with these aspects.

The player agent system has to be overhauled and ethical standards enforced (Greenberg is long gone) but let's get real ... you can't stop a Politis telling players how many extremely helpful introductions they'll probably get if they become a Chook. Wealth carries influence, and can easily operate outside the spirit of the rules (and even the actual rules.)

And while I applaud the commie bastardry that seems to underlie some of the complaints here ... do we not want Manly to once again be a dominant club? To be a perennial finalist and regular premiers? If talent is evened out so much, Manly (and everyone else) will get as many spoons as premeriships! Do we want that? Or do we really just want to be the new Chooks, like we once were!

 

[eaglebuzz]

The Tigers are losing players because after a decade of mismanagement from the very top they are now a complete basket case that nobody wants to play at. The salary cap can't help them.

The Eels just shafted a coach who took them to a GF as a scapegoat for their terribly balanced squad, and now the players who wanted to play for him are exploring their options. Again not a financial issue.

 

[The Who]

Oh I agree but personally I think any thought of a point system is a pipe dream too.

You haven't addressed how player remuneration and contracts would work??

I'm waiting for the book deal to be finalised.

 

[The Indian]

Good luck to Aaron Woods, Nick Cotric and David Klemmer and Alex Johnston and etc etc getting a contract as a State of Origin and Australian representative and being on as many salary cap points as Cleary, Ponga, Turbo. Their managers better start earning their agents fees finding a club willing to offer them a new deal.

 

[manly al]

Is interesting though that the A F L and American N F L both have a draft system of sorts and wonder if it is still assumed or accepted that the R L comp is still more tribal based to reduce the interest in these other type arrangements
Then the N R L spreading their wings in recent and coming seasons with a gradual expansion , more outer regional approach .
Points system does have its appeal in theory but looks also to have its share of shortcomings when the whole of competition vagaries and at least partly exploitable aspects are taken into account .
Seems that the Broncs and Eels are classic examples right now whose prospects have been dimmed and when on all prevailing indications and expectations with the current comp guideline "s setup should be doing better
Doubt if a points based arrangement would have altered things or indeed for other sides right now who would have been anticipated or expected to pose more of a title threat .
3 rd party arrangements or deals disclosed or undisclosed maybe still the elephant in the room

 

[manly al]

I'm waiting for the book deal to be finalised.

Do you require a manager ?

 

[manly al]

Maybe the comp is a bit more even at present when some of the recent form and outcomes is taken into account .
Panthers not that superior to the Knights who were missing Best and one or two other fair players?
Storm getting beaten with Munster back .
Roosters apparently hardly convincing against the Dolphins .
Just hope that coach Flanahgan"s early pre season prediction in that Skirmish hit out with his side and Manly and that Manly is more then capable of winning the comp can still ring true

 

[The Who]

Good luck to Aaron Woods, Nick Cotric and David Klemmer and Alex Johnston and etc etc getting a contract as a State of Origin and Australian representative and being on as many salary cap points as Cleary, Ponga, Turbo. Their managers better start earning their agents fees finding a club willing to offer them a new deal.

You obviously didn't read the initial 'thought bubble' post fully.
Former rep players are discounted. Plus, further discounts apply to number of NRL games played. Plus local junior discounts apply.
All those mentioned would be on 2 or 3 points compared to 5 points for current international representatives.
Just as long as a club remains under the maximum points allocation they can recruit a player/s. It's the same with the current salary cap, only the points system is transparent.
I don't know why fellow Forum members are getting hung up on specifics. Look at the bigger picture. The concept of a points system is sound. Working out the logistics would be complicated, but with the best minds engaged it could be workable.

 

[The Who]

Do you require a manager ?

My phone has been running off the hook... I've had to report Anasta already for stalking me!

 

[ABTK]

My phone has been running off the hook... I've had to report Anasta already for stalking me!

Keep your doors and windows locked @The Who , and don't go out at night..!

 

[The Who]

Keep your doors and windows locked @The Who , and don't go out at night..!

I've even spotted Moses hiding in my bullrushes...

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The current system is a clear as mud and can be easily worked around with 3rd Party Deals. Clubs with a lot of corporate backing have a huge advantage. It’s an easy way out to say can’t fix it or points system won’t work. It needs to be properly explored with expert imput and I don’t mean the current financial backers who have a serious conflict on interest issue. IMO the points system has merit and is worth exploring.

 

[BOZO]

The Salary Cap is only Crap
If you have Crap Salary Cap Management

Take it away Kerry ....

 

[The Who]

Honestly, I just dont see how it becomes a workable system. I see so many issues without much thought.

For starters Harry Grant is a current Kangaroo, Havili was in the last Tonga squad, are they both worth 5 points?

Is Cleary now cheaper on points cause he didnt play Origin? Okay maybe he obviously would have made it so he counts as current, but if he counts, does his replacement who otherwise wouldn't have still count for 4?

What about Jack Wighton withdrawing from Origin? Is that a loophole could a club offer Cleary 8mil a year and tell him to spurn rep footy to keep his points down.

What constitutes 1 years experience?
A full season, a debut, 5 games. Is Lachie Galvin worth the same next year as Jayden Berrell.

How long does 'former SOO or international' count? Is Aaron Woods the same as David Fifita.

Anyhow...that is just poking at the points set up.

My bigger issue is that clubs still have to pay players for their services in a relatively free market.

Say 7 clubs want Blaize Talagi, he is cheap on points and a phenominal talent. Not cap so a bidding war breaks out. Penrith win paying him 1mil a year on a 3 year deal. Great, he is worth bugger all in the points cap......but next year he wins the Dally M, plays for the Blues and Australia and wins the Clive Churchill. His points have exploded and Penrith can't fit him in the points cap with Cleary, Yeo, Martin, To'o etc. So he is a free agent only 3 clubs have the point space but they are broke and can only pay 300k. Blaize has a contract, do Penrith have to pay the difference. Does Blaize sit out seasons and collect his mil?

Or is the suggestions that all contracts a 1 year deals and every year is some mad merry go round of players with zero loyalty and affiliation?

Or is the thought that salary is linked directly to points.....a) good luck getting the RPLA on board and B) we are back to, does Cleary get the same as Havilli.

Honestly....it seems a mess to me.

I'm all for publishing offers and salaries...but again, not sure the RLPA will be on board.

Yes, there would be anomalies with a points system, yet they could be ironed out from one season to the next. But let's face it, there are anomalies in everything where rules and regulations are imposed.
What could be more of an anomaly than Manly valuing The Shoe at $800,000 for each of three seasons!
The current salary cap is a 'value' call. One club's value will differ from another club. In comparison, the points system is set, regulated and transparent.

 

[BOZO]

The Tigers are losing players because after a decade of mismanagement from the very top they are now a complete basket case that nobody wants to play at. The salary cap can't help them.

The moral to your story feathered friend .....
The Salary cap does not help dumb mismanaged clubs like the Tigers
Smart Innovating clubs find clever ways to help them selves

 

[BOZO]

Whinging is an unproductive useless energy that amounts to fck all failure
Whingers never prosper
Only the Wise do
My advice is ....
Stop Whinging and find away
Or you will fade away into insignificance

 

[The Who]

I've just learned that Easts' rugby union first grade has been docked five points for breaching the points-based cap system!
I didn't realise RU instituted a points system along the lines of what we've been discussing. So, for all those naysayers who don't believe the system can work you may care to do your research...

In what amounts to a salary cap-style equalisation structure, the Shute Shield operates under a complex player points system, where all players are given a value. Tier-one Test players are worth 20 points, contracted Super Rugby players are worth 10 points, and various points values below that reflect a player’s first-grade experience and any professional background.
Players can get reductions for factors such as being a local junior or having spent longer at a club, but Shute Shield teams can’t have more than 100 combined points on the field at any one time. All clubs enter their player values to a central database.

Many clubs don’t get close to fielding a team totalling 100 points, but Easts, who currently sit on top of the Shute Shield ladder, have a star-laden roster and often flirt with the limit.
In a round 11 clash against Souths, Easts went over the 100-point cap due to former Tonga prop Vunipola Fifita being submitted as a one-point player. In the two previous seasons, Fifita had been a 13-point and 12-point player because he had played five or more Tests for a tier-two nation.