[Resurrected] The Penny has dropped from a great height!

[SeaEagleRock8]

the position Trent Barrett was in when he looked at his roster in 2014.

When he looked at his roster in 2014 he would have noticed a lot of Penrith players! He didn't sign with Manly until 2015, and this year's recruits are the first chance he's had....

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Would Akuila Uate qualify as a good recruitment ? seems he might be on the radar

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...hts-for-manly-sea-eagles-20160823-gqzh3p.html

Not at the price they quote in that article!

 

[Enigma]

When he looked at his roster in 2014 he would have noticed a lot of Penrith players! He didn't sign with Manly until 2015, and this year's recruits are the first chance he's had....

True he signed in 15 , I suppose I was more responding to the idea that 2014's success means anything if you are trying to coach now as they are all too old or not 1st graders

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Well I agree with you about that also. In fact you only have to look at Souths to see how irrelevant 2014 success is to what happens in 2016 and beyond.

I just think you're being a bit harsh on our recruits. Champion teams don't spring up overnight, and we no longer have one - but our next one is hopefully just around the corner.

 

[Enigma]

Well I agree with you about that also. In fact you only have to look at Souths to see how irrelevant 2014 success is to what happens in 2016 and beyond.

I just think you're being a bit harsh on our recruits. Champion teams don't spring up overnight, and we no longer have one - but our next one is hopefully just around the corner.

I suppose the harshness is related to my frustration at what I thought was beyond debate that Barrett and Fulton have had a big job to rebuild and part of the problem is the list of recruits over a five year period , none of whom have kicked on. Half this forum seems to revolve around Barretts coaching win rate of 22% or something yet a five year recruitment success rate of ?% apparently isn't worthy of recognition.

 

[lulubelle]

Shouldn't the headline of this thread be: "The Penn has dropped from a great height!"?

 

[Loaded dog]

Bring the damn hooped jerseys back ffs, at least they will look like Manly premiership winning sides. Next year fellas

Why have the hoops disappeared? Was it just to make the front sponsor's name clearer, or was it something more sinister?

 

[Shoe1]

I've been offline for a few hours. What foolish decisions by manly have I missed in the meantime?

 

[Freagle]

I suppose the harshness is related to my frustration at what I thought was beyond debate that Barrett and Fulton have had a big job to rebuild and part of the problem is the list of recruits over a five year period , none of whom have kicked on. Half this forum seems to revolve around Barretts coaching win rate of 22% or something yet a five year recruitment success rate of ?% apparently isn't worthy of recognition.

Bear in mind though, that until last year (possibly 2014) we had probably the most stable team of hardened first-graders in the comp, and anybody with an ounce of ambition wouldn't join us, as they knew there was bugger-all chance of breaking into the top side. Plus they were all pushing the utmost limits of the salary cap as it was, so we were offering rubbish money. Certainly wouldn't have helped our recruitment at all...

 

[Enigma]

Bear in mind though, that until last year (possibly 2014) we had probably the most stable team of hardened first-graders in the comp, and anybody with an ounce of ambition wouldn't join us, as they knew there was bugger-all chance of breaking into the top side. Plus they were all pushing the utmost limits of the salary cap as it was, so we were offering rubbish money. Certainly wouldn't have helped our recruitment at all...

It is more a counter to the idea that Barrett inherited some sort of gilt edged roster not much a go at recruitment . I do seem to recall some pretty crucial recruitments though who did break into an already champion team, you could argue that such a good team could attract players. Rodney , Trex , wolf, the hooker backup , Glen Hall are some possible examples. We presented a great chance in the last few years for players to come and prove themselves because if they were much chop they could have had a couple of years in first grade and be looking for a juicy contract. It is very hard to argue that recruitment in this period was acceptable even given the obstacles.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It is very hard to argue that recruitment in this period was acceptable even given the obstacles.

The obstacles were overwhelming. If you don't believe me, ask Geoff Toovey. He told me this personally in 2012, and, if you speak to him, he'll tell you the same.
We bought players like Horo because that's all we could afford, and for the money I say he was a success, he helped us get to a grand final. We recruited Hiku and he quickly became a Kiwi international.
I like it that you are blaming our recruitment instead of individual players, coaches, etc, but there are times when a scapegoast isn't required. Our champion team aged and left. It's OK, we just build a new one.

 

[Enigma]

The obstacles were overwhelming. If you don't believe me, ask Geoff Toovey. He told me this personally in 2012, and, if you speak to him, he'll tell you the same.
We bought players like Horo because that's all we could afford, and for the money I say he was a success, he helped us get to a grand final. We recruited Hiku and he quickly became a Kiwi international.
I like it that you are blaming our recruitment instead of individual players, coaches, etc, but there are times when a scapegoast isn't required. Our champion team aged and left. It's OK, we just build a new one.

Look up the Sea Eagles preview for the season 2012, I can see none of these overwhelming obstacles that you are referring to. Maybe you need to read more of the thread and reply rather than taking one line out of context. If you think that the recruitment in the five year period that I have documented regardless of reasons or excuses is not a factor in Barretts 12th position on the table well there is nothing more I can say to you. I am curious as to what Tooves was referring to though as 2012 had a stellar line up. I did happen to have a long conversation with him a bit before this period and found him a decent person

 

[Chip and Chase]

Players recruited to manly since 2010. At the risk of wasting my time and being awarded a dummy , has any other club recruited so poorly over this period? 2010 Joe Galuvao ( great but long gone), Matt Cross, Rodney moefaauo, Terrence Seu Seu,
2011 Liam Foran, Daniel Harrison, Tim Robinson,
2012 Nick Skinner, Ben Farrar, Liam Roach
2013 Michael Chee Kam, Dane Chisolm,Richie Faoso, Jacob Gagan, Justin Horo, Peta Hiku, Ligi Sao, Brenton Lawrence, Kayne Lawton, Justin Lemalu,
2014 Cheyse Blair, Josh Starling Delroy Berryman, Jayden Hodges, Tyson Andrews, Dunamis Lui, Jack Littlejohn, Mark O'dare, Mania Rudolf.
No doubt all these players tried their best but even though I can see a few names missing, where are the players to take us anywhere near a grand final?

Players that have debuted for Manly since 2010 till last season (pre Barrett)


532 Terence SEU SEU 2010 (R1)
533 Trent HODKINSON 2010 (R2)
534 Matthew CROSS 2010 (R2)
535 Joe GALUVAO 2010 (R2)
536 Jamie BUHRER 2010 (R10)
537 Dean WHARE 2010 (R12)
538 William HOPOATE 2010 (R13)
539 Michael OLDFIELD 2010 (R23)
540 Daly CHERRY-EVANS 2011 (R1)
541 Daniel HARRISON 2011 (R2)
542 Tim ROBINSON 2011 (R2)
544 Darcy LUSSICK 2011 (R14)
545 Nick SKINNER 2012 (R4)
546 Jorge TAUFUA 2012 (R4)
547 Liam FORAN 2012 (R6)
548 Justin HORO 2013 (R1)
549 Brenton LAWRENCE 2013 (R1)
550 Richard FA’AOSO 2013 (R1)
551 David GOWER 2013 (R1)
552 Jesse SENE-LEFAO 2013 (R1)
553 Tom SYMONDS 2013 (R2)
554 Peta HIKU 2013 (R6)
555 James HASSON 2013 (R8)
556 Esikeli TONGA 2013 (R8)
557 Ligi SAO 2013 (R18)
558 Clinton GUTHERSON 2013 (R26)
559 Jake TRBOJEVIC 2013 (R26)
560 Cheyse BLAIR 2014 (R1)
561 Josh STARLING 2014 (R1)
562 Dunamis LUI 2014 (R1)
563 Tony SATINI 2014 (R3)
564 Jack LITTLEJOHN 2014 (R8)
565 Jayden HODGES 2014 (R17)
566 Tyson ANDREWS 2014 (R18)
567 Michael CHEE KAM 2014 (R26)
568 Willie MASON 2015 (R1)
569 Feleti MATEO 2015 (R1)
570 Luke BURGESS 2015 (R1)
571 Blake LEARY 2015 (R1)
572 Brayden WILLIAME 2015 (R3)
573 Tom TRBOJEVIC 2015 (R5)

Now you might try and argue that some of those "local" products aren't recruited, but retention goes hand in hand with recruitment in my book. If you have home grown product then you invest in that just as eagerly as you do looking outside the club. Some solid players on that list, and also some misses no doubt. But I think given what we had to work with in terms of cap space we've had a reasonable strike rate given a very solid core of a team that had 6-8 long term stars that demanded good coin. We've paid the penalty the last two seasons as age/injury has caught up with them, but that's the price of loyalty in my opinion. We are now in a rebuilding phase so let's see what we can come up with

 

[Enigma]

Players that have debuted for Manly since 2010 till last season (pre Barrett)


532 Terence SEU SEU 2010 (R1)
533 Trent HODKINSON 2010 (R2)
534 Matthew CROSS 2010 (R2)
535 Joe GALUVAO 2010 (R2)
536 Jamie BUHRER 2010 (R10)
537 Dean WHARE 2010 (R12)
538 William HOPOATE 2010 (R13)
539 Michael OLDFIELD 2010 (R23)
540 Daly CHERRY-EVANS 2011 (R1)
541 Daniel HARRISON 2011 (R2)
542 Tim ROBINSON 2011 (R2)
544 Darcy LUSSICK 2011 (R14)
545 Nick SKINNER 2012 (R4)
546 Jorge TAUFUA 2012 (R4)
547 Liam FORAN 2012 (R6)
548 Justin HORO 2013 (R1)
549 Brenton LAWRENCE 2013 (R1)
550 Richard FA’AOSO 2013 (R1)
551 David GOWER 2013 (R1)
552 Jesse SENE-LEFAO 2013 (R1)
553 Tom SYMONDS 2013 (R2)
554 Peta HIKU 2013 (R6)
555 James HASSON 2013 (R8)
556 Esikeli TONGA 2013 (R8)
557 Ligi SAO 2013 (R18)
558 Clinton GUTHERSON 2013 (R26)
559 Jake TRBOJEVIC 2013 (R26)
560 Cheyse BLAIR 2014 (R1)
561 Josh STARLING 2014 (R1)
562 Dunamis LUI 2014 (R1)
563 Tony SATINI 2014 (R3)
564 Jack LITTLEJOHN 2014 (R8)
565 Jayden HODGES 2014 (R17)
566 Tyson ANDREWS 2014 (R18)
567 Michael CHEE KAM 2014 (R26)
568 Willie MASON 2015 (R1)
569 Feleti MATEO 2015 (R1)
570 Luke BURGESS 2015 (R1)
571 Blake LEARY 2015 (R1)
572 Brayden WILLIAME 2015 (R3)
573 Tom TRBOJEVIC 2015 (R5)

Now you might try and argue that some of those "local" products aren't recruited, but retention goes hand in hand with recruitment in my book. If you have home grown product then you invest in that just as eagerly as you do looking outside the club. Some solid players on that list, and also some misses no doubt. But I think given what we had to work with in terms of cap space we've had a reasonable strike rate given a very solid core of a team that had 6-8 long term stars that demanded good coin. We've paid the penalty the last two seasons as age/injury has caught up with them, but that's the price of loyalty in my opinion. We are now in a rebuilding phase so let's see what we can come up with

You can't debate with someone if you change the parameters to suit your own arguement. The list of players I added earlier in the thread were the ones recruited to Manly in that 5 year period based on season previews. These are the players spotted elsewhere and bought to the club in that period. We would have been hoping some like Chee Kam, Sao and Little John would now be 1st graders and then Barretts 22% might be a lot higher. One player spotted in that period, Hiku is playing 1st grade and if you want to start a thread on recruitment before that period which dramatically helped our cause go ahead. If you want to start a valid debate check out the players who todays coaches have and how they have benefited from recruitment over the last five years. Go back five years and pretend you are recruiting for Manly and are told you have a small budget, do you expect to unearth a few 1st graders or not?

 

[Dan]

I'm going to leave you lot alone now. I've largely been wasting my time on this silly forum but I will have a parting shot. This post among many others is why I'm leaving.
Here I put up a poorly worded explanation(as Enigma) as to why I believe we were struggling last year with the roster we had.
With some exceptions ( and one notable exception ) I was shouted down by the keyboard experts who wouldn't even stick to the point. I've taken the time to make a valid point and then try to clarify maybe my poor expression of this and I get bully style responses.
Just because the Roosters were below us on the table last year did not mean they had not recruited well and there is no point debating with people who can't see this.
If I wanted to fit in properly on this forum I would need to post nonsense about certain wooden spoons if the coach doesn't follow my orders.
I thought I would be able to come on to a forum like this as a genuine supporter and debate my views but there is no debate from the negative bullies just a shut down of me .
Just gets boring.

Well the intention is that you can debate your thoughts as a supporter however that doesn't mean others can't do the same.

One thing about debating based on your opinion, be ready for any and every response or you will just fee wounded

 

[MadMarcus]

I wonder what username he'll have when he comes back?

 

[Hamster Huey]

I'm going to leave you lot alone now. I've largely been wasting my time on this silly forum but I will have a parting shot. This post among many others is why I'm leaving.
Here I put up a poorly worded explanation(as Enigma) as to why I believe we were struggling last year with the roster we had.
With some exceptions ( and one notable exception ) I was shouted down by the keyboard experts who wouldn't even stick to the point. I've taken the time to make a valid point and then try to clarify maybe my poor expression of this and I get bully style responses.
Just because the Roosters were below us on the table last year did not mean they had not recruited well and there is no point debating with people who can't see this.
If I wanted to fit in properly on this forum I would need to post nonsense about certain wooden spoons if the coach doesn't follow my orders.
I thought I would be able to come on to a forum like this as a genuine supporter and debate my views but there is no debate from the negative bullies just a shut down of me .
Just gets boring.

Sorry to hear, Lotti.

 

[nightster]

I wonder what username he'll have when he comes back?

northharbourreserve

 

[Wombat Legacy]

Shame, thought the bloke was a real standout in a dreary pile of poo lately. Playing the man with dribble doesn't fashion much intelligence, does it now

 

[Harvies elbow]

I'm going to leave you lot alone now. I've largely been wasting my time on this silly forum but I will have a parting shot. This post among many others is why I'm leaving.
Here I put up a poorly worded explanation(as Enigma) as to why I believe we were struggling last year with the roster we had.
With some exceptions ( and one notable exception ) I was shouted down by the keyboard experts who wouldn't even stick to the point. I've taken the time to make a valid point and then try to clarify maybe my poor expression of this and I get bully style responses.
Just because the Roosters were below us on the table last year did not mean they had not recruited well and there is no point debating with people who can't see this.
If I wanted to fit in properly on this forum I would need to post nonsense about certain wooden spoons if the coach doesn't follow my orders.
I thought I would be able to come on to a forum like this as a genuine supporter and debate my views but there is no debate from the negative bullies just a shut down of me .
Just gets boring.

Geez Forty........ I was enjoying those bumps from the past too.