The Pack ... and the Alpha Male ..

[Woodsie]

The game has changed a bit since the old "hunt and kill as a pack" mentality of forwards ... such as the Bulldogs packs under Warren Ryan .....

But there is still very much a place for packs that play as a tight unit ..... I fear Manly isn't one of them .... Why?

It is easy to say poor coaching ... maybe it is ...... However when I look at the people and personalities in our forwards I get the feeling we are a few blue heelers short .. let's look at our players and you tell me if you agree ..

Jake .... typical old school pack mentality
Lane .... nah .. good year, but more of an off with the fairies than hunt with the pack type ..
Thommo ... yeah, a pack member ..
AFB .... not sure, bit of a lone wolf type ... but can be pack orientated ... maybe .. sorta ..
Api .... too busy working to really give it a thought ....
Kapow .... definitely not a pack kind of guy ... more the lone wolf ... individual performance type guy ...

So, I guess with only 2 pack type guys out of 6 ... we are not as scary or efficient as we could be ...

 

[Paw93]

The game has changed a bit since the old "hunt and kill as a pack" mentality of forwards ... such as the Bulldogs packs under Warren Ryan .....

But there is still very much a place for packs that play as a tight unit ..... I fear Manly isn't one of them .... Why?

It is easy to say poor coaching ... maybe it is ...... However when I look at the people and personalities in our forwards I get the feeling we are a few blue heelers short .. let's look at our players and you tell me if you agree ..

Jake .... typical old school pack mentality
Lane .... nah .. good year, but more of an off with the fairies than hunt with the pack type ..
Thommo ... yeah, a pack member ..
AFB .... not sure, bit of a lone wolf type ... but can be pack orientated ... maybe .. sorta ..
Api .... too busy working to really give it a thought ....
Kapow .... definitely not a pack kind of guy ... more the lone wolf ... individual performance type guy ...

So, I guess with only 2 pack type guys out of 6 ... we are not as scary or efficient as we could be ...

I actually think Api is the link between our forwards. He organises our forwards quite well which allows them to work as a pack instead of individuals. There's definitely room for improvement there but having Api organise the forwards gives us a massive edge as a pack.

 

[Woodsie]

I actually think Api is the link between our forwards. He organises our forwards quite well which allows them to work as a pack instead of individuals. There's definitely room for improvement there but having Api organise the forwards gives us a massive edge as a pack.

Agree ... but we tend to play the modern forwards game of changing the point of attack ... which results in a less concentrated forward cluster and a less of a pack attitude .... we rarely have 3/4 poppers hit it up the middle, or "take" the opposition forwards on.

But I am talking more about individual players mental dispositions ... some are "pack" animals ... some are lone wolves .... I think we have too any lone wolves ...

 

[double hoops]

My view is we are just missing that alpha forwards leader to bring them all together. Nothing wrong with a line wolf who knows his role. It's where a James Graham has been so good for the dragons. Jake's just to young, we mis an old wise leader. Unfortunately Nate Myles just wasn't that man.

 

[Ryan]

The game has changed a bit since the old "hunt and kill as a pack" mentality of forwards ... such as the Bulldogs packs under Warren Ryan .....

But there is still very much a place for packs that play as a tight unit ..... I fear Manly isn't one of them .... Why?

It is easy to say poor coaching ... maybe it is ...... However when I look at the people and personalities in our forwards I get the feeling we are a few blue heelers short .. let's look at our players and you tell me if you agree ..

Jake .... typical old school pack mentality
Lane .... nah .. good year, but more of an off with the fairies than hunt with the pack type ..
Thommo ... yeah, a pack member ..
AFB .... not sure, bit of a lone wolf type ... but can be pack orientated ... maybe .. sorta ..
Api .... too busy working to really give it a thought ....
Kapow .... definitely not a pack kind of guy ... more the lone wolf ... individual performance type guy ...

So, I guess with only 2 pack type guys out of 6 ... we are not as scary or efficient as we could be ...

I'm a firm believer in having some intimidation, and fear factor. We have great, amazing forwards, but none of them are "angry" (and I mean within the bounds of the rules, not a loose cannon).

That's why when we had some mongrel in Watmough / Matai, with a few others like Horo chipping in from time to time, while our old forward pack may not have been as naturally gifted as this one, they still intilled fear into the opposition.

I go back to Klemmer, basically slapping DCE across the face at Brooky. If that were 2008, he would have been knocked to the ground and rough housed. Look at how the team reacted at Brooky, when Blair took a swing at him. It was on. You couldn't mess with our Manly boys.

Jesus, even Brent Kite punched Michael Crocker in the head - one of the best footy moments ever.

We lack that. And I think that comes down to mateship, first and foremost. Our team isn't a combines unit at the moment. We are individuals (talented, no doubt), in a team, when we should be one complete unit, together.

 

[Paw93]

Agree ... but we tend to play the modern forwards game of changing the point of attack ... which results in a less concentrated forward cluster and a less of a pack attitude .... we rarely have 3/4 poppers hit it up the middle, or "take" the opposition forwards on.

But I am talking more about individual players mental dispositions ... some are "pack" animals ... some are lone wolves .... I think we have too any lone wolves ...

That is likely to be one of the biggest failings of Trent as head coach. It was mentioned on NRL 360 in our season review as well where Trent has just failed to bring different personalities into the team as a group. What I did like seeing was his use of AFB as an edge runner. His size and power on the edge gives him such an advantage and it was good to see that being used on the edge.

 

[Woodsie]

We lack that. And I think that comes down to mateship, first and foremost. Our team isn't a combines unit at the moment. We are individuals (talented, no doubt), in a team, when we should be one complete unit, together.

Agree ... doing it for your mate is a big part of football .... but I do believe there are personality types .... and we don't got enough of the right ones ..

 

[Paw93]

I'm a firm believer in having some intimidation, and fear factor. We have great, amazing forwards, but none of them are "angry" (and I mean within the bounds of the rules, not a loose cannon).

That's why when we had some mongrel in Watmough / Matai, with a few others like Horo chipping in from time to time, while our old forward pack may not have been as naturally gifted as this one, they still intilled fear into the opposition.

I go back to Klemmer, basically slapping DCE across the face at Brooky. If that were 2008, he would have been knocked to the ground and rough housed. Look at how the team reacted at Brooky, when Blair took a swing at him. It was on. You couldn't mess with our Manly boys.

Jesus, even Brent Kite punched Michael Crocker in the head - one of the best footy moments ever.

We lack that. And I think that comes down to mateship, first and foremost. Our team isn't a combines unit at the moment. We are individuals (talented, no doubt), in a team, when we should be one complete unit, together.

Mateship was huge in that team. Everyone had each other's backs. I'd also say that there were certain individuals in that team that had the ability to bring any side together to play their best football. Snake in my mind was the key in that side. He managed a team with Starling and Lawrence as our starting forwards to be world beaters. There's no one in the modern game that could improve a side like Snake did.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Called me old fashioned but you need to get the whole squad playing for each other and the pack operating like a relentlessness mongrel panther tank. No primadonnas or movie stars preoccupied with their own importance - just players that give their all for their team mates. These guys are at the the top level and what separates sides now is innovation, motivation and structure.

 

[Loobs]

Step 1. Get Bruno back in. He's opening a Narrabeen academy tomorrow...

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...p/news-story/98e818e9dad62e94cf85693c451c2c89

 

[Harvies elbow]

The game has changed a bit since the old "hunt and kill as a pack" mentality of forwards ... such as the Bulldogs packs under Warren Ryan .....

But there is still very much a place for packs that play as a tight unit ..... I fear Manly isn't one of them .... Why?

It is easy to say poor coaching ... maybe it is ...... However when I look at the people and personalities in our forwards I get the feeling we are a few blue heelers short .. let's look at our players and you tell me if you agree ..

Jake .... typical old school pack mentality
Lane .... nah .. good year, but more of an off with the fairies than hunt with the pack type ..
Thommo ... yeah, a pack member ..
AFB .... not sure, bit of a lone wolf type ... but can be pack orientated ... maybe .. sorta ..
Api .... too busy working to really give it a thought ....
Kapow .... definitely not a pack kind of guy ... more the lone wolf ... individual performance type guy ...

So, I guess with only 2 pack type guys out of 6 ... we are not as scary or efficient as we could be ...

Great thread great assessment Woodsie.
And no I'm sure it can't be coached.
It requires a certain type of mongrel.
The late great Lance Thompson springs to mind as the pack player.
Guys like choc and gifty could do both as a pack and as individuals.
As can wade Graham and Luke Lewis.
And whilst it can't be coached the trick is to recruit those who are up to the task.
And though you need players with certain individual skills like lane, who's job is hit holes, when you put the pack players in your squad it rubs off and even the more fancy players get with the program.

 

[maxta]

Done a post this morning that sings the same song mate (below from Klemmer thread) - agree 100% - I think you will find this finals series has
3 serious packs in storm/Sharks/Souths and though many jump on the Roosters train, who do have some match winners out wide....I feel 1 of
these 3 teams will win off the mongrel and Attitude in the crunch games.

Just on Klemmer, I can understand people claiming we already have great go forward so he does not add a big deal, but
I tend to disagree....what he would add is intimidation and aggression and this would feed the rest of the pack who apart
from Jake & Thommo adding a few decents shots - lack killer instinct in many area's.

 

[wombatgc]

Jet ski looks to have a bit of mongrel in him. He looks to be around the same height size as Choc. If only there was another Ben Kennedy out there.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Remember those Manly packs of the late 2000's ? - they loved defence and used to enjoy bashing teams out of contests. So many good hitters, that core group of Choc, Gift, Kingdog, Kitey, even Beaver had a great technique on him. Then add Matai unleashing on the fringes. Teams knew they were in a football game against us back then, it was coming from all directions - dead right about that pack mentality, they used to feed off each other. These days the worse they opposition are going to suffer is a stretched jersey as someone grabs it as they run past - Jake excluded.

 

[eadie fan]

Jet ski looks to have a bit of mongrel in him. He looks to be around the same height size as Choc. If only there was another Ben Kennedy out there.

Throughout the pre-season, we kept hearing how good he was going, how he was “crazy” and very aggressive.

I saw nothing to support that during his appearances this year. Was not aggressive at all and thought his defence was disappointing.

We have re-signed him for anotherr year so hope he comes good.

 

[Woodsie]

Remember those Manly packs of the late 2000's ? - they loved defence and used to enjoy bashing teams out of contests. So many good hitters, that core group of Choc, Gift, Kingdog, Kitey, even Beaver had a great technique on him. Then add Matai unleashing on the fringes. Teams knew they were in a football game against us back then, it was coming from all directions - dead right about that pack mentality, they used to feed off each other. These days the worse they opposition are going to suffer is a stretched jersey as someone grabs it as they run past - Jake excluded.

The sad thing .. is early this year, we had several instances when we moved up with great line speed and put on a couple of pack bellringers ....

... the ref's soon penalised that out of us .....

I honestly believe we were penalty shy for the rest of the season ..

 

[robbiea]

We get a Klemmer or another big aggressive mongrel & I dont think we even miss good ole "Team ME".For everything he does in attack he lets back with defence or lack of it.Not a team player and boys will "lift" once its a team again.Happy to see the back of him..

 

[maxta]

The sad thing .. is early this year, we had several instances when we moved up with great line speed and put on a couple of pack bellringers ....

... the ref's soon penalised that out of us .....

I honestly believe we were penalty shy for the rest of the season ..

Remember a good example mate - we were pulverising Tigers early at Brookie - agressive and Attitude turned up I started thinking "Wait a second, this feels like the Real Manly"....
Then....10 penalties - zero ball - 20 minutes later, we were down 22 - 0 and spent.

 

[Woodsie]

Remember a good example mate - we were pulverising Tigers early at Brookie - agressive and Attitude turned up I started thinking "Wait a second, this feels like the Real Manly"....
Then....10 penalties - zero ball - 20 minutes later, we were down 22 - 0 and spent.

That's it .....

 

[mike walker]

The game has changed a bit since the old "hunt and kill as a pack" mentality of forwards ... such as the Bulldogs packs under Warren Ryan .....

But there is still very much a place for packs that play as a tight unit ..... I fear Manly isn't one of them .... Why?

It is easy to say poor coaching ... maybe it is ...... However when I look at the people and personalities in our forwards I get the feeling we are a few blue heelers short .. let's look at our players and you tell me if you agree ..

Jake .... typical old school pack mentality
Lane .... nah .. good year, but more of an off with the fairies than hunt with the pack type ..
Thommo ... yeah, a pack member ..
AFB .... not sure, bit of a lone wolf type ... but can be pack orientated ... maybe .. sorta ..
Api .... too busy working to really give it a thought ....
Kapow .... definitely not a pack kind of guy ... more the lone wolf ... individual performance type guy ...

So, I guess with only 2 pack type guys out of 6 ... we are not as scary or efficient as we could be ...

G'day all,Just expanding on the dog analogy@ Woodsie to balance the squad you don't know anyone who could spare us a couple of Scottish Deerhounds,a Border Collie and an Airedale or two.
cheers mike