The No-Look News (Schuster Chronicles)

[Sidestep]

Just got another view on how we can play Schuster for 2024 and the foreseeable future. As most of you all say that Jake doesn't have the leg speed, mobility and attacking threat of a modern day lock. But I also believe like Schuster doesn't have the physical capabilities to be starting lock. But I'm posing the idea that we play Schuster off the bench coming on after the physical barrier in the first 20 minutes and plays that ball playing roaming lock role for remaining 60 minutes.

If you look at Schuster his strengths are;

• His passing game through deception (would be great first receiver by attracting wider players)
• Great offloader
• Powerful runner (when he runs, if he doesn't run the ball he's dropped that simple)
• Has X factor moments like a sharp run, great support play or handy kick

Weaknesses (when playing second row)

• His physical toughness of running outside in lines for sweeping backs around the back of him not him wanting centre to run the tough hard lines for him.
• His defensive decisions when halfbacks are running plays at him. This will be nullified if he is defending in the middle of the field where he has a lot less space to occupy and won't be exposed for his poor decision making.
• His fitness (if he is only playing 60 minutes or less that will mean he can stay in the game and play at a higher intensity for those 60 minutes instead of 40 minutes where he's on fire then 40 minutes just trying to get through to the 80.
• His lack of hit ups - now I know a few of you will go yea if you want him to play that roaming ruck role for 60 minutes he's got to have to have hit ups and yes I agree. If he doesn't learn to take at least 8-10 hit ups a game for 80 meters he just not going to get picked in the 17 that simple.
• His lack of ability to get involved - with Schuster playing either left edge or five eight he has been stuck on one side of the park - if he's playing that bench lock role this forces him to constantly get his hands on the ball as he is the first receiver.

I know there will also be people out there saying that we can't be having an 800k player starting on the bench that just can't happen. But it's to do what's best for the team in the scenario we have. 60 minutes' on the bench in the middle of the park with hands all over the ball is more then enough time for him to make the impact we need from him. If he succeeds in this role he can then have the potential opportunity to start. But atm i feel that physical barrage in the first 20 minute's will wear him away and with his current fitness levels he isn't quite at that stage yet, but I would love for him to prove me wrong.

Schuster moving to this role also helps out the team through Jake although first 20 minutes technically playing lock where mobility and speed doesn't really matter because everyone is fresh he can then switch into the prop position which he is.
As well as Burbo who will increase in size run for around 120 metres a game, run those tight hard lines as well running plenty of decoy runs as left edge back row is statistically proven to be the position which runs most decoys runs can create space for our backs to attack.
Leading to Tom and Jake being happy that their brother is starting after they were left filthy with Manly staff after Schuster resigned without earning it knowing that was Ben's spot.
Thoughts?

Absolutely spot on.

 

[manly al]

Problem with Jake occasionally at 13 can be if the play breaks down a bit or he chooses the option of not moving the ball and noticeably on a 4 th or even 5 th tackle play , just results in a largely nothing play with him then making no headway into an opposing defence .
Seemed to be a bit more effective in attack a few seasons ago at 13 when he was scoring the odd try from good back up but the mid field breaks for him to capitalize on also seem a bit far and few between for a while now for whatever reason .
Maybe he has just slowed down that fraction but would not suspect that much .
Did not again appear so pronounced with some limitations around the 13 role when Dylan Walker could come on and add that bit of spark and unpredictability and no doubt Siebold did try to mix it up a bit trying Alioia , Keppie and even Woods there briefly but no general improvement .
Sam Fainu could have been the one to make some worthwhile improvement but opportunity and timing just was not part of the equation .
As for next season , who knows and to aid the side to the best effect .

 

[Ryan]

Problem with Jake occasionally at 13 can be if the play breaks down a bit or he chooses the option of not moving the ball and noticeably on a 4 th or even 5 th tackle play , just results in a largely nothing play with him then making no headway into an opposing defence .
Seemed to be a bit more effective in attack a few seasons ago at 13 when he was scoring the odd try from good back up but the mid field breaks for him to capitalize on also seem a bit far and few between for a while now for whatever reason .
Maybe he has just slowed down that fraction but would not suspect that much .
Did not again appear so pronounced with some limitations around the 13 role when Dylan Walker could come on and add that bit of spark and unpredictability and no doubt Siebold did try to mix it up a bit trying Alioia , Keppie and even Woods there briefly but no general improvement .
Sam Fainu could have been the one to make some worthwhile improvement but opportunity and timing just was not part of the equation .
As for next season , who knows and to aid the side to the best effect .

A novel idea would be playing a specialist LOCK at lock, rather than a carousel of props / halves, hoping one sticks. Same goes for Hooker. The problem is our recruitment / retention hasn't been targeted, but rather spasmodic. The effect that has on an already massively top heavy team, is it creates huge gaps (too many players playing out of position, and lack of depth in certain areas).

 

[Disco]

A novel idea would be playing a specialist LOCK at lock, rather than a carousel of props / halves, hoping one sticks. Same goes for Hooker. The problem is our recruitment / retention hasn't been targeted, but rather spasmodic. The effect that has on an already massively top heavy team, is it creates huge gaps (too many players playing out of position, and lack of depth in certain areas).

Jake has started approx 170 of his 200 NRL games at lock.

Can I ask who in the NRL you class as a specialist lock and why?

 

[eaglebuzz]

Jake is a fantastic defensive lock, he just doesn't have the impact in attack I'd like to see more of

 

[Ryan]

Jake has started approx 170 of his 200 BRL games at lock.

Can I ask who in the NRL you class as a specialist lock and why?

To directly answer your question, my answer (respectfully) would be "who cares?" - Manly is what matters, and balancing our roster in order to compete with the top 1/2 of the league is what is important. Tell me, if we are asking questions, over the past TWO seasons, how many top 8 teams have we beaten over 48 games?

Here is Sporting News breakdown of his form in 2022 - I'm using this, because I don't have much assessment from 2023 yet, but I think it pretty much describes Jake to a tee (I'll put the link underneath) - but they rated him 14/16 of the starting Locks:

14. Jake Trbojevic​

20 games, 2 offloads, 87 run metres + 39 tackles per game

He might be one of the most likeable players in the competition, but Jake Trbojevic offered very little to the Manly side this year.

With his brother sidelined for the majority of the season with a shoulder injury, Jake and his Sea Eagles teammates struggled on the field. The lock-forward produced a lowly two offloads all year, while his inability to bend the line puts him well behind the elite locks in the NRL.

Trbojevic's best game of the year came in Game II of the State of Origin series, with his impact for Manly nowhere near the level he produced for the Blues.

NRL 2022: Lock power rankings 16-1 | Sporting News Australia

The likes of Cameron Murray and Isaah Yeo add so much to their side's attack, but there is still plenty of room for the dominance of Jason Taumalolo and Tino Fa'asuamaleaui.

www.sportingnews.com

Pretty fair assessment in my opinion - don't take my word for it - I'll leave this article here and just say I agree. Now add to that, a returning Josh Schuster that ALSO doesn't bend the line, it's putting a whole lot of pressure on long term injury riddled players returning match fit like Lodge, Paseka, Aloiai to shoulder the load.

Then again, now that we've re-signed Corey Waddell, watch out Penrith, we are coming for you with an explosive backrow of Jake, Waddell, Schuster and Olakau'atu ! Hahahaha. Hopefully this highlights why there is some trepidation among fans.

 

[mutley]

Agree jake is a plodder and a waste of cap space, been saying for 2 years he is no longer a 80 minute player another season ending injury to tom next year and hopefully we send them both to england for the last 2 years of their contracts

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

To directly answer your question, my answer (respectfully) would be "who cares?" - Manly is what matters, and balancing our roster in order to compete with the top 1/2 of the league is what is important. Tell me, if we are asking questions, over the past TWO seasons, how many top 8 teams have we beaten over 48 games?

Here is Sporting News breakdown of his form in 2022 - I'm using this, because I don't have much assessment from 2023 yet, but I think it pretty much describes Jake to a tee (I'll put the link underneath) - but they rated him 14/16 of the starting Locks:

14. Jake Trbojevic​

20 games, 2 offloads, 87 run metres + 39 tackles per game

He might be one of the most likeable players in the competition, but Jake Trbojevic offered very little to the Manly side this year.

With his brother sidelined for the majority of the season with a shoulder injury, Jake and his Sea Eagles teammates struggled on the field. The lock-forward produced a lowly two offloads all year, while his inability to bend the line puts him well behind the elite locks in the NRL.

Trbojevic's best game of the year came in Game II of the State of Origin series, with his impact for Manly nowhere near the level he produced for the Blues.

NRL 2022: Lock power rankings 16-1 | Sporting News Australia

The likes of Cameron Murray and Isaah Yeo add so much to their side's attack, but there is still plenty of room for the dominance of Jason Taumalolo and Tino Fa'asuamaleaui.

www.sportingnews.com

Pretty fair assessment in my opinion - don't take my word for it - I'll leave this article here and just say I agree. Now add to that, a returning Josh Schuster that ALSO doesn't bend the line, it's putting a whole lot of pressure on long term injury riddled players returning match fit like Lodge, Paseka, Aloiai to shoulder the load.

Then again, now that we've re-signed Corey Waddell, watch out Penrith, we are coming for you with an explosive backrow of Jake, Waddell, Schuster and Olakau'atu ! Hahahaha. Hopefully this highlights why there is some trepidation among fans.

Whoever wrote that article must be a big NBA fan, and not realise that there are 2 sides to Rugby League, 1 with the ball and 1 without the ball, that are just as important as each other

There is a reason why Jake is in all of the rep squads

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Whoever wrote that article must be a big NBA fan, and not realise that there are 2 sides to Rugby League, 1 with the ball and 1 without the ball, that are just as important as each other

Maybe even 3 sides. All those long hours spent week after week, month after month training and travelling together etc. In a team game, personal qualities count. I suspect one of the reasons for the Panthers current dynasty is they have a core bunch who just gel really well together, personality-wise.

 

[frank stokes]

Concern I have with playing Schu in the forwards is that he HAS to bulk up and, potentially, that may ruin him…

One of the main reasons (imo) that he has not been able to shine at NRL level is he has been carrying too much size (again, imo) and resultantly has lost the leg speed that enabled him to shine in the juniors (along with his brilliant ball-handling skills obviously)…

But ball skills alone are simply not enough at NRL level, you HAVE to do things at speed and/or have the bulk/strength to bust tackles and create opportunities… otherwise the defences will shut you down. Roosters game was a great example where they had an obvious game plan to get in Schu’s face quickly and take away his time to ball-play…

We are stuck however we (Manly) go I reckon…
to get him to his highest level, he HAS to play halves and get his leg speed back but that means time in Reggie’s and probs a disgruntled Schu that moves on and our investment is lost…
to keep him on the field in a productive side he has to play forwards because of his lack of leg speed - BUT he will need to bulk up considerably to be able to handle the role and will likely never be the player he could potentially have been…

Rock meet hard place…

 

[mickqld]

Jake has started approx 170 of his 200 NRL games at lock.

Can I ask who in the NRL you class as a specialist lock and why?

Give me Carrigan, Yeo, Murray, Harris any day as a lock. Those 4 are the best and they are specialist locks , they are creative as well as tackle busters. Jake is not , he is a slow plodding prop these days. Jake is a tackling machine but nothing more.

 

[Disco]

Give me Carrigan, Yeo, Murray, Harris any day as a lock. Those 4 are the best and they are specialist locks , they are creative as well as tackle busters. Jake is not , he is a slow plodding prop these days. Jake is a tackling machine but nothing more.

Harris has played 45 of his 220 games at lock FYI.

I know what you and some others are saying, you want our 13 to be more dynamic, but it is just a pet peeve when people throw around "he is not a x position" or "he is a makeshift x position" when referring to players.

Like a lock can be a middle like Horsburgh or more a ball player like Radley. A halfback can be a run first player like Johnson or a organiser like Cronk. A hooker can be a scooter/schemer like Api or distributer like Ballin, a centre can be a power runner going himself like Manu or a Gidley who is creating space for his outside man.

Teams and players don't need to conform to to have 17 squads and 17 positions playing the exact same way.

This is not a rant at you, just and old man (in spirit) ranting at the clouds.

As for Jake, 8 or 13 on his back he will play the same role so the question for me is do we need more defensive structure and workload or more creativity.
Personally for the balance of the 24 squad I think defence and workload is the order but Ive an open mind on it.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Concern I have with playing Schu in the forwards is that he HAS to bulk up and, potentially, that may ruin him…

One of the main reasons (imo) that he has not been able to shine at NRL level is he has been carrying too much size (again, imo) and resultantly has lost the leg speed that enabled him to shine in the juniors (along with his brilliant ball-handling skills obviously)…

But ball skills alone are simply not enough at NRL level, you HAVE to do things at speed and/or have the bulk/strength to bust tackles and create opportunities… otherwise the defences will shut you down. Roosters game was a great example where they had an obvious game plan to get in Schu’s face quickly and take away his time to ball-play…

We are stuck however we (Manly) go I reckon…
to get him to his highest level, he HAS to play halves and get his leg speed back but that means time in Reggie’s and probs a disgruntled Schu that moves on and our investment is lost…
to keep him on the field in a productive side he has to play forwards because of his lack of leg speed - BUT he will need to bulk up considerably to be able to handle the role and will likely never be the player he could potentially have been…

Rock meet hard place…

The problem is not his position and what it requires of his body. Even in the highlights you post, he was huge for a 5/8 and could (and did on occasions) have easily played on an edge during those years.

He doesn't need to bulk up to return to the edge at all. In fact, he needs to lose weight. He is a naturally big framed human. If he gets fit, he can reach his potential, regardless of his position. No more excuses for Schuster. Get fit, lean, and work hard and the number on his back will not make a difference.

 

[Stewbojevic]

The problem is not his position and what it requires of his body. Even in the highlights you post, he was huge for a 5/8 and could (and did on occasions) have easily played on an edge during those years.

He doesn't need to bulk up to return to the edge at all. In fact, he needs to lose weight. He is a naturally big framed human. If he gets fit, he can reach his potential, regardless of his position. No more excuses for Schuster. Get fit, lean, and work hard and the number on his back will not make a difference.

Exactly. He was quite lean and athletic in 2021 when he had his best year, on an edge.

 

[Will on the hill]

The problem is not his position and what it requires of his body. Even in the highlights you post, he was huge for a 5/8 and could (and did on occasions) have easily played on an edge during those years.

He doesn't need to bulk up to return to the edge at all. In fact, he needs to lose weight. He is a naturally big framed human. If he gets fit, he can reach his potential, regardless of his position. No more excuses for Schuster. Get fit, lean, and work hard and the number on his back will not make a difference.

The preseason photo I want to see is Jake and Schu with six packs and rippling veiny biceps... purely for football reasons... nothing sus.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Schu needs to be mentally disciplined, extremely fit and motivated. Unfortunately being told he was going to be one of the best messed him up. He needs to pull his sleeves up and work hard all of the time. I hope he reaches his potential in 2024.

 

[frank stokes]

The problem is not his position and what it requires of his body. Even in the highlights you post, he was huge for a 5/8 and could (and did on occasions) have easily played on an edge during those years.

He doesn't need to bulk up to return to the edge at all. In fact, he needs to lose weight. He is a naturally big framed human. If he gets fit, he can reach his potential, regardless of his position. No more excuses for Schuster. Get fit, lean, and work hard and the number on his back will not make a difference.

Have a closer look at his waist in the vid… he does not even fill the jersey out because he was big but lean… and he had acceleration- which you cannot tell me he has retained…

I do not see him being an effective forward without muscling (bulking) up.. stopping tries is every bit as important as creating them… we let in a lot of tries this year because of Schu misses and he was not required to make anywhere near the tackles he will be asked to next year…

Personally I think we are gonna end up with a 2nd rate Schu on 1st rate Schu $$$..

 

[LeonardCohen]

Have a closer look at his waist in the vid… he does not even fill the jersey out because he was big but lean… and he had acceleration- which you cannot tell me he has retained…

Personally I think we are gonna end up with a 2nd rate Schu on 1st rate Schu $$$..

I hope you’re wrong. But I think you’ll be right.

He’s definitely lost speed which I equate to his lack of fitness/overweight. However, he did have a series of lower leg injuries so who knows, maybe that’s slowed him down. It’s a concern regardless.

 

[Ryan]

Concern I have with playing Schu in the forwards is that he HAS to bulk up and, potentially, that may ruin him…

One of the main reasons (imo) that he has not been able to shine at NRL level is he has been carrying too much size (again, imo) and resultantly has lost the leg speed that enabled him to shine in the juniors (along with his brilliant ball-handling skills obviously)…

But ball skills alone are simply not enough at NRL level, you HAVE to do things at speed and/or have the bulk/strength to bust tackles and create opportunities… otherwise the defences will shut you down. Roosters game was a great example where they had an obvious game plan to get in Schu’s face quickly and take away his time to ball-play…

We are stuck however we (Manly) go I reckon…
to get him to his highest level, he HAS to play halves and get his leg speed back but that means time in Reggie’s and probs a disgruntled Schu that moves on and our investment is lost…
to keep him on the field in a productive side he has to play forwards because of his lack of leg speed - BUT he will need to bulk up considerably to be able to handle the role and will likely never be the player he could potentially have been…

Rock meet hard place…

Mate, but does he ? Cam Murray is one of the elite 13's out there, and he's small and lean..same with that grubby Chooks lock. Small, lean and on his case mean. That's the way if the game in 2023. Mobility. Speed. Up-tempo at everything. Even the big boys.

Those slower power guys like Jason King, Mark Bryant and others are kinda a thing if the past (yet they suited their times).

 

[frank stokes]

Yeah, good point @Ryan

Radley and Murray are certainly not big guys - in fact Murray is an inch shorter and 11kg lighter than Schu… Tadley is a midget but tackles like a freight train (often a derailed one)

You have given me hope that he can lose bulk and get some of his speed back as long as he improves his tackling technique… and puts the work in of course…