The Daly Cherrygraph

[Bearfax]

I guess I'm in the minority on this forum. I consider DCE one of the top 3 half backs in the game at present.

I might agree that I think maybe Jake or someone else should take on the captaincy, but as far as commitment on the field, few in the Manly side at present compare. Jake. Croker, Foran...that's it.

Manly's problems are not because of DCE in my opinion. Last year he and Turbo were streets ahead of the rest. He hasnt been as effective this year without Turbo, but then he is the one we rely on to be a match winner, and if the rest of the team cant create the basis for decent attacking raids, DCE is neutered.

I can understand why the Members picked him. He plays his guts out trying to get the side motivated. He's had good support from Foran and Garrick at times, but little else. Its not his fault the forwards arent making ground. Its not his fault the defense is so shoddy. If he was so bad why is he QLD SOO half. Why does he consistently get near the top in the fantasy ratings, which measure work done.

Maybe he's not a top ball player. Maybe there's discord over his captaincy and big salary. OK take the captaincy off him and dont give an over the top salary this time (wasnt his fault in the first place so why continue to blame him because he accepted what was offered and be prepared to suffer the media attacks when he backed out of the Titan's agreement...which he did legally).

We would be far worse off if he wasnt in the team. The players we have are a sprinkling of top talent, some rising stars, but a lot of average first graders. You dont win premierships without the talent on the field.

 

[Cameron]

I guess I'm in the minority on this forum. I consider DCE one of the top 3 half backs in the game at present.

I might agree that I think maybe Jake or someone else should take on the captaincy, but as far as commitment on the field, few in the Manly side at present compare. Jake. Croker, Foran...that's it.

Manly's problems are not because of DCE in my opinion. Last year he and Turbo were streets ahead of the rest. He hasnt been as effective this year without Turbo, but then he is the one we rely on to be a match winner, and if the rest of the team cant create the basis for decent attacking raids, DCE is neutered.

I can understand why the Members picked him. He plays his guts out trying to get the side motivated. He's had good support from Foran and Garrick at times, but little else. Its not his fault the forwards arent making ground. Its not his fault the defense is so shoddy. If he was so bad why is he QLD SOO half. Why does he consistently get near the top in the fantasy ratings, which measure work done.

Maybe he's not a top ball player. Maybe there's discord over his captaincy and big salary. OK take the captaincy off him and dont give an over the top salary this time (wasnt his fault in the first place so why continue to blame him because he accepted what was offered and be prepared to suffer the media attacks when he backed out of the Titan's agreement...which he did legally).

We would be far worse off if he wasnt in the team. The players we have are a sprinkling of top talent, some rising stars, but a lot of average first graders. You dont win premierships without the talent on the field.

100% agree. I think it's simple make Jake co captain and take some pressure off DCE

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I guess I'm in the minority on this forum. I consider DCE one of the top 3 half backs in the game at present.

I might agree that I think maybe Jake or someone else should take on the captaincy, but as far as commitment on the field, few in the Manly side at present compare. Jake. Croker, Foran...that's it.

Manly's problems are not because of DCE in my opinion. Last year he and Turbo were streets ahead of the rest. He hasnt been as effective this year without Turbo, but then he is the one we rely on to be a match winner, and if the rest of the team cant create the basis for decent attacking raids, DCE is neutered.

I can understand why the Members picked him. He plays his guts out trying to get the side motivated. He's had good support from Foran and Garrick at times, but little else. Its not his fault the forwards arent making ground. Its not his fault the defense is so shoddy. If he was so bad why is he QLD SOO half. Why does he consistently get near the top in the fantasy ratings, which measure work done.

Maybe he's not a top ball player. Maybe there's discord over his captaincy and big salary. OK take the captaincy off him and dont give an over the top salary this time (wasnt his fault in the first place so why continue to blame him because he accepted what was offered and be prepared to suffer the media attacks when he backed out of the Titan's agreement...which he did legally).

We would be far worse off if he wasnt in the team. The players we have are a sprinkling of top talent, some rising stars, but a lot of average first graders. You dont win premierships without the talent on the field.

In a good team dce is a top half (top 5). But I reckon in a struggling team looking for direction and simplicity dce plummets to one of the least suitable halfbacks in the comp. At times this year we would’ve gotten around the park a little smoother with a simple traditional halfback like Townsend, Hynes or Moses.

That’s why opinion fluctuates with him every year. I don’t agree he’s top 3, definitely on his day, but consistently? No way in my opinion.

 

[Bearfax]

In a good team dce is a top half (top 5). But I reckon in a struggling team looking for direction and simplicity dce plummets to one of the least suitable halfbacks in the comp. At times this year we would’ve gotten around the park a little smoother with a simple traditional halfback like Townsend, Hynes or Moses.

That’s why opinion fluctuates with him every year. I don’t agree he’s top 3, definitely on his day, but consistently? No way in my opinion.

Conjecture mate. All three of those players are presently playing with teams at the top with good talent around them. Moses hardly inspired when at Wests before he moved to Parra and there were times when he came under serious criticism at Parra.. Townsend at Cronulla in his last 3 seasons there, saw them lose more than win and Hynes has hardly had to carry a side while at the Storm and now a Cronulla side enhanced with improved cattle and new coach. Very hard for a player to shine with a team in constant turmoil like Manly has been for much of the past decade.

 

[KNUCKLES]

Conjecture mate. All three of those players are presently playing with teams at the top with good talent around them. Moses hardly inspired when at Wests before he moved to Parra and there were times when he came under serious criticism at Parra.. Townsend at Cronulla in his last 3 seasons there, saw them lose more than win and Hynes has hardly had to carry a side while at the Storm and now a Cronulla side enhanced with improved cattle and new coach. Very hard for a player to shine with a team in constant turmoil like Manly has been for much of the past decade.

I do get your point, but Moses was a rookie at the Tigers. Probably not the best example. I remember putting the idea out there of getting Townsend in a few years back. I pretty much got ran out of town. Although Chad isn't an elite halfback he is more than capable of leading a side around the park amd do the simple things well for probably what would of been 800k cheaper than DCEs salary. Let's not forget he had won a premiership too. The excess could of put the talent needed around him. In my opinion I believe we would of been better off for it in more ways than one

 

[Chip and Chase]

Hanging onto DCE will mean we are just treading water for the next 3 years. We won't drown, but we won't be catching a premiership wave either. The guy has proven that he is just a slightly better than average NRL halfback most of the time, with the occasional run of good form when his team dominates for reasons normally other than his personal contribution. All his accolades are ancient history, the premiership ring, the Dally M awards, the Clive Churchill. He was a small cog in a big machine back then. Since we starting paying him to be the big cog we haven't seen much action from the machine, outside of when the Turbo cut in last year.

I think we should just rip the band aid off and move on. Sure there aren't a lot of halfbacks out there on the market at the moment, but how many have we missed out on over the last 8 years because of his contract ? We'll never know, and we'll keep on never knowing if we let him hang around for another 3 years. Personally I think it's time to take a risk on an up and comer, whether that's Humphries or Fainu or someone else I don't know. But at least there is hope of an upside, with DCE I feel we've seen his best and it's not going to get us what we all crave, another title. My biggest fear is some idiot has agreed to his 2 year extension on a 7 figure sum.If that's the case we are stuck with him, as I doubt you will find a club who will take him off our hands at that coin.

 

[Bearfax]

I do get your point, but Moses was a rookie at the Tigers. Probably not the best example. I remember putting the idea out there of getting Townsend in a few years back. I pretty much got ran out of town. Although Chad isn't an elite halfback he is more than capable of leading a side around the park amd do the simple things well for probably what would of been 800k cheaper than DCEs salary. Let's not forget he had won a premiership too. The excess could of put the talent needed around him. In my opinion I believe we would of been better off for it in more ways than one

Knuckles, I accept that other half backs could do the job for us, but would they be as good with their range of skills. DCE's kicking game alone is exceptional. His defense is outstanding in a side that doesnt seem to know how to defend at present.

I'll accept a few issues though. I think someone else should be captain to take that extra responsibility off him and may have him reducing his tendency to over compensate for the team's lack of fire power. His salary was too much but that wasnt his fault. The next contract should be less. He's not a great ball player. Much more the individualist player, which is fine if you have a ball player at 5/8.

Foran was a steady reliable hard running support and was a good link with the backs with some slick passing. But he's not a Cliff Lyons for example. That's what we need to offset DCE's ball playing limitations. That's why we need someone like Schuster or Latu Fainu as the ball player. Both have a range of skills quite rare in the game and if they move to the next level (the skill is there, but will the role in first grade be a bridge too far... we'll have to wait and see), we'll see a significantly improved attack.

We're developing a pretty decent backline with Koula, Turbo, Garrick and Weekes. We havent had that for almost a decade, having had to put up with a pedestrian lot who try hard but dont impact. A top ball player would be invaluable and the problem with DCE until someone of good talent comes along, is resolved in my opinion

 

[chuckee]

People have short memories.
For probably the 1/2-3/4 of the year DCE was one of the best number 7’s in the comp.
He was 5th on the try assist list only 4 behind Moses on the most, take into account we barely scored a try in our last 7 matches of the season.
Like many years gone by, it’s the players around him that hold him back.
However I believe the 3x $1M salaries play a big factor in this.

 

[The '47ers]

Some forwards that actually went forward would probably help too! A zippy #9 also

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Conjecture mate. All three of those players are presently playing with teams at the top with good talent around them. Moses hardly inspired when at Wests before he moved to Parra and there were times when he came under serious criticism at Parra.. Townsend at Cronulla in his last 3 seasons there, saw them lose more than win and Hynes has hardly had to carry a side while at the Storm and now a Cronulla side enhanced with improved cattle and new coach. Very hard for a player to shine with a team in constant turmoil like Manly has been for much of the past decade.

Expertly pointed out, although there was a post a few weeks/months ago about current halfbacks that we’d think would be better suited (not just in terms of talent) and I found it wasn’t too hard to think of a fair few decent options. Even players like Ilias and Hastings are doing good jobs trying to do a simple role in their teams.

Only mentioned those 3 as they are prime examples of traditional halfbacks working in top teams. They don’t really stand out every game, but at the end of the season their fans look back and are pretty thankful they have them.

I really like your passion getting behind dce and I can tell you, if our side was in a great position squad-wise, i’d like to keep him too.

 

[Damien2812]

Conjecture mate. All three of those players are presently playing with teams at the top with good talent around them. Moses hardly inspired when at Wests before he moved to Parra and there were times when he came under serious criticism at Parra.. Townsend at Cronulla in his last 3 seasons there, saw them lose more than win and Hynes has hardly had to carry a side while at the Storm and now a Cronulla side enhanced with improved cattle and new coach. Very hard for a player to shine with a team in constant turmoil like Manly has been for much of the past decade.

Very true and DCE was effective when Manly had a great side around him. The problem is he wanted too much money meaning we had to sign plodders around him and not genuine 1st grade players this past 7 years.

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Knuckles, I accept that other half backs could do the job for us, but would they be as good with their range of skills. DCE's kicking game alone is exceptional. His defense is outstanding in a side that doesnt seem to know how to defend at present.

I think DCE can be an incredibly good player when the team is on the front foot. But while all halves struggle when their forwards are on the back foot, DCE struggles more than most.

I'd also say that while his long kicking game can be great, his short kicks often leave a lot to be desired. And except when he's required to kick a field goal at the end of a game, he doesn't seem to have any grasp of the dynamics of a match - when to play conservatively, when to go for broke, how to change momentum. Too often he takes the wrong options at the wrong time.

As for his defence, it's true that he is a very good one-on-one tackler, but his defensive reads and decisions are unbelievably poor for a player of his experience. It's no coincidence that every team in the NRL runs at his side of the defensive line. The players around him (inside and outside) can have no confidence in what he's doing because he defends like he attacks: as an individual, off-the-cuff. We leak points as a consequence.

DCE is basically the same player he's always been, and at this stage of his career it's unlikely he'll ever change. He's also not going anywhere any time soon. I have a recurring nightmare of him being Manly's captain/coach well into his 40s. But if we insist on building a team around him and his style of play, we better figure out how to make it work.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

IMO DCE is a great player but is not a leader as he makes far too many low percentage plays. Low percentage plays don't often yield a good outcome so usually they are to our detriment. Such as kicking the ball away early in the tackle count after we have been defending without it for a long periods of time, cross kicks in your own 22 metre zone and racing up out of the line in defence usually resulting in leaving your outside defenders stranded and tries being conceded.

It is one thing to have talent and physical attributes but a top shelve half back that is also a leader (such as Sterling and Cronk) very rarely make the wrong call and play with vision, patience, read the game and are conscious of how their troops are travelling. Being conscious of your team mates and how your team is coping as a whole is crucial. Curiously you don't see him play many low percentage plays in origin and I suspect that is because they are his instructions. If he doesn't follow instructions in origin he won't get selected again whereas with Manly he is a certainty to start.

 

[Bearfax]

Very true and DCE was effective when Manly had a great side around him. The problem is he wanted too much money meaning we had to sign plodders around him and not genuine 1st grade players this past 7 years.

Damien he didnt want too much money at all. That's fake news mate. He was being offered well under a million a season and was thinking it through, as is customary. Then Manly withdrew the offer, obviously because of salary cap issues and retaining both DCE and Foran, and they chose to go for Foran. Then Foran was offered big money at Parramatta and signed with them. By that time DCE, who obviously thought Manly werent interested, signed with the Titans for four years for $5.2 million. It was Manly that realised its mistake and then had to offer a better deal to bring him back and reneg on the agreement. He had always said he wanted to stay at Manly but Manly obviously preferred Foran. So what would you have done?

 

[Bearfax]

I think DCE can be an incredibly good player when the team is on the front foot. But while all halves struggle when their forwards are on the back foot, DCE struggles more than most.

I'd also say that while his long kicking game can be great, his short kicks often leave a lot to be desired. And except when he's required to kick a field goal at the end of a game, he doesn't seem to have any grasp of the dynamics of a match - when to play conservatively, when to go for broke, how to change momentum. Too often he takes the wrong options at the wrong time.

As for his defence, it's true that he is a very good one-on-one tackler, but his defensive reads and decisions are unbelievably poor for a player of his experience. It's no coincidence that every team in the NRL runs at his side of the defensive line. The players around him (inside and outside) can have no confidence in what he's doing because he defends like he attacks: as an individual, off-the-cuff. We leak points as a consequence.

DCE is basically the same player he's always been, and at this stage of his career it's unlikely he'll ever change. He's also not going anywhere any time soon. I have a recurring nightmare of him being Manly's captain/coach well into his 40s. But if we insist on building a team around him and his style of play, we better figure out how to make it work.

Ron E. Gibbs, your comments are interesting but again conjectural. The issue about his defense I find curious because I certainly havent seen him make such wrong decisions and he always has a high defense number per game. Maybe you are seeing the fact that he tries too hard given others in the team are not carrying their weight in defense. And he's a much more complete player than he was when he first started and won the Clive Churchill Award. His kicking has developed greatly (he wasnt kicking 20/40s and so many field goals with both feet for example back then). I can live with the issue of captaincy and ball playing but the stats again show he is a very competent half back. Otherwise back in 2015 the Titans would not have been offering 1.3 million a year.

 

[Bearfax]

Expertly pointed out, although there was a post a few weeks/months ago about current halfbacks that we’d think would be better suited (not just in terms of talent) and I found it wasn’t too hard to think of a fair few decent options. Even players like Ilias and Hastings are doing good jobs trying to do a simple role in their teams.

Only mentioned those 3 as they are prime examples of traditional halfbacks working in top teams. They don’t really stand out every game, but at the end of the season their fans look back and are pretty thankful they have them.

I really like your passion getting behind dce and I can tell you, if our side was in a great position squad-wise, i’d like to keep him too.

Again conjectural. Hastings for example, who I admire, has a long way to go to equal DCEs range of skills. Mind you I wish Hastings had stayed. But it comes down yet again to how we each perceive. And its seems that a lot of people, including our members, SOO selectors, etc recognise DCE's talents. Not just me here.

 

[Eagle 1]

Hanging onto DCE will mean we are just treading water for the next 3 years. We won't drown, but we won't be catching a premiership wave either. The guy has proven that he is just a slightly better than average NRL halfback most of the time, with the occasional run of good form when his team dominates for reasons normally other than his personal contribution. All his accolades are ancient history, the premiership ring, the Dally M awards, the Clive Churchill. He was a small cog in a big machine back then. Since we starting paying him to be the big cog we haven't seen much action from the machine, outside of when the Turbo cut in last year.

I think we should just rip the band aid off and move on. Sure there aren't a lot of halfbacks out there on the market at the moment, but how many have we missed out on over the last 8 years because of his contract ? We'll never know, and we'll keep on never knowing if we let him hang around for another 3 years. Personally I think it's time to take a risk on an up and comer, whether that's Humphries or Fainu or someone else I don't know. But at least there is hope of an upside, with DCE I feel we've seen his best and it's not going to get us what we all crave, another title. My biggest fear is some idiot has agreed to his 2 year extension on a 7 figure sum.If that's the case we are stuck with him, as I doubt you will find a club who will take him off our hands at that coin.

Why the big secrecy over Evans's 2yr contract extension....why is this being hushed up, why, because it probably is 1.2m and the person or persons responsible don't want to own up to it.

 

[Bearfax]

Why the big secrecy over Evans's 2yr contract extension....why is this being hushed up, why, because it probably is 1.2m and the person or persons responsible don't want to own up to it.

And I would agree it is too much and not necessary. Manly dont have the Titans this time to compete for the signature and I doubt DEC is wanting to move elsewhere.

 

[mickqld]

I think DCE can be an incredibly good player when the team is on the front foot. But while all halves struggle when their forwards are on the back foot, DCE struggles more than most.

I'd also say that while his long kicking game can be great, his short kicks often leave a lot to be desired. And except when he's required to kick a field goal at the end of a game, he doesn't seem to have any grasp of the dynamics of a match - when to play conservatively, when to go for broke, how to change momentum. Too often he takes the wrong options at the wrong time.

As for his defence, it's true that he is a very good one-on-one tackler, but his defensive reads and decisions are unbelievably poor for a player of his experience. It's no coincidence that every team in the NRL runs at his side of the defensive line. The players around him (inside and outside) can have no confidence in what he's doing because he defends like he attacks: as an individual, off-the-cuff. We leak points as a consequence.

DCE is basically the same player he's always been, and at this stage of his career it's unlikely he'll ever change. He's also not going anywhere any time soon. I have a recurring nightmare of him being Manly's captain/coach well into his 40s. But if we insist on building a team around him and his style of play, we better figure out how to make it work.

Put Turbo, Schuster (fit), a decent #9 and a couple more decent forwards around him and he's adequate enough forus to make a top 4 spot. BUT I'd be making Jake the captain and true leader. He is not worth $1.2 mil though.

 

[Briza]

Put Turbo, Schuster (fit), a decent #9 and a couple more decent forwards around him and he's adequate enough forus to make a top 4 spot. BUT I'd be making Jake the captain and true leader. He is not worth $1.2 mil though.

Agreed, Jake(C) and DCE left to concentrate on being the best 7 he can be.