The Clean Out 2025 Edition

[Phobia]

To beat the Panthers/Dogs brand of football, you either need to match the grind and be prepared to go with them for 80 minutes, which we are simply not set up or inclined to do, or rely on individual skills (“weapons”) and some favours from the refs. Our style of play has previously been described as “using our weapons” so we have no hope of simply flicking a switch mid season and expect to out grind teams that have spent years developing that playing style. The dogs don’t have better players than us, they just have a system they have all committed to.

Agreed on this, and I would bloody love to see a change of direction.

I think Fogarty is the first step. Paseka returning is the second. A change of overall team direction is the third.

Yet again, I'm not saying burn down the club, as the likely replacement for Seibold is BA, who is even further stuck in the past. See the 2024 Eels pack for reference. Just boppers, no care for edge defence, etc.

I'm not opposed to upgrading on Seibold, but there's no assurance we'll get an upgrade, with Penn's record.

 

[LeonardCohen]

To beat the Panthers/Dogs brand of football, you either need to match the grind and be prepared to go with them for 80 minutes, which we are simply not set up or inclined to do, or rely on individual skills (“weapons”) and some favours from the refs. Our style of play has previously been described as “using our weapons” so we have no hope of simply flicking a switch mid season and expect to out grind teams that have spent years developing that playing style. The dogs don’t have better players than us, they just have a system they have all committed to.

I agree with most of that and it’s very astute…the only thing I would argue is the roster, i.e. don’t have better players than us’…it’s not necessarily that they’re better, but they’re definitely better equipped for the game in 2025. There’s a lot of speed across the park and it hurt us on the weekend. I actually think there was a concerted effort to move us around and it exposed us badly. Second phase play, shifting the ball away from the middle forwards and going wide and/or turning the ball back inside, meant that our middles were forced to constantly move and that brings fatigue. I think Ciraldo showed the rest of the NRL how to strategise against us.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I actually think there was a concerted effort to move us around and it exposed us badly.

I checked back on Burton's big break that led to their 3rd try. Until then, in the 55th minute, we'd held them at bay despite losing Haumole and had actually been pressuring them in the 2nd half till then.
Burton stepped inside, there was someone to check him, stepped inside again, ditto, stepped inside again... this time no-one there. Sips was the middle who couldn't keep moving and voila, big gap and dogs good enough to take full advantage.
A pity as I think Sips actually got over the line a few minutes earlier, but rolled the wrong way and was held up. A try then and the game may have taken a different course.

 

[The Who]

Offloads. That's one area in which we are poor. I reckon stats will bear our my perception that other teams offload much more than our mob.

 

[mave]

Offloads. That's one area in which we are poor. I reckon stats will bear our my perception that other teams offload much more than our mob.

We are pretty bloody good at conceding them though !!

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Offloads. That's one area in which we are poor. I reckon stats will bear our my perception that other teams offload much more than our mob.

Trade off for a high completion rate maybe.

 

[LeonardCohen]

I checked back on Burton's big break that led to their 3rd try. Until then, in the 55th minute, we'd held them at bay despite losing Haumole and had actually been pressuring them in the 2nd half till then.
Burton stepped inside, there was someone to check him, stepped inside again, ditto, stepped inside again... this time no-one there. Sips was the middle who couldn't keep moving and voila, big gap and dogs good enough to take full advantage.
A pity as I think Sips actually got over the line a few minutes earlier, but rolled the wrong way and was held up. A try then and the game may have taken a different course.

Yep and to be beaten all ends up by that step, followed by ‘no-one there’ is not a system error, it’s just fatigue. OK, Waddell had not long since gone on but ordinarily he should be able to cover Burton by offering him the inside shoulder, with a teammate catching for him on the inside, before he recovers and offers support; however, fatigue meant our spacing was terrible and once Waddell was beaten, the inside had to rush to fill the space, and so was easily thrown off balance by the step, and then again with Jake, before Sipley got found out. Basically, Waddell should never be expected to make that tackle by himself and ordinarily wouldn’t. The same play earlier in the game against fresh legs sees two to three players in the tackle.

We definitely struggled to go with them in the grind. I think they’re a side you need a bit of luck to beat; a few penalties and some cheap field position…they’re so much like Penrith that if you go toe to toe in the grind, they’re just too good and will wear you down.

 

[Brookie1973]

Offloads. That's one area in which we are poor. I reckon stats will bear our my perception that other teams offload much more than our mob.

Particularly us conceding them. The Dogs game in particular. Seems like we simply forget to have someone around the ball in tackles. Again, the panthers/dogs philosophy makes that a priority.

 

[Nambawan]

Yep and to be beaten all ends up by that step, followed by ‘no-one there’ is not a system error, it’s just fatigue. OK, Waddell had not long since gone on but ordinarily he should be able to cover Burton by offering him the inside shoulder, with a teammate catching for him on the inside, before he recovers and offers support; however, fatigue meant our spacing was terrible and once Waddell was beaten, the inside had to rush to fill the space, and so was easily thrown off balance by the step, and then again with Jake, before Sipley got found out. Basically, Waddell should never be expected to make that tackle by himself and ordinarily wouldn’t. The same play earlier in the game against fresh legs sees two to three players in the tackle.

We definitely struggled to go with them in the grind. I think they’re a side you need a bit of luck to beat; a few penalties and some cheap field position…they’re so much like Penrith that if you go toe to toe in the grind, they’re just too good and will wear you down.

A reasonably fresh mobile second rower actually would have been expected to make that particular tackle. It showed once again that Waddell basically lacks adequate mobility and therefore can't effectively cover laterally. Keep an eye on him this Saturday night and you'll likely observe what I mean - as probably Waddell, and the right side defence, will be targeted by Easts.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

A reasonably fresh mobile second rower actually would have been expected to make that particular tackle. It showed once again that Waddell basically lacks adequate mobility and therefore can't effectively cover laterally. Keep an eye on him this Saturday night and you'll likely observe what I mean - as probably Waddell, and the right side defence, will be targeted by Easts.

Burton is quite a dangerous runner, he can beat plenty of decent players when lines are stretched.
Also Waddell held his hands up ok v Storm, he's not a total dud.
Having said that, his best position is certainly in the middle rotation, and he usually only gets that role when Paseka, Aloia, and Brown are out.
The fact we don't have better 2nd row backup is... noted! Hopefully it's on Manly's shopping list.

 

[Under the Sticks]

I am concerned about our club. The Football department needs a reboot. I'm pleased that recent recruitment has resulted in signing some very good young talent but we need to bring them through into first grade. Walsh is 19 and old enough to play first grade. He has looked very good in the NSW Cup and looks ready. I would not be picking DCE against the Roosters and once we are out of semi final contention I'd start blooding some young forwards.

Behind a rubbish pack? No thanks.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Behind a rubbish pack? No thanks.

Then we’ll lose him to someone else.

 

[joeboy]

I just hope we are shipping off aloai ( if his injury is as bad as suggested) and croker, who we just don’t need anymore, they can sail off into the sunset, and it would be perfect if we could stow brown on board too, I’m glad Sipley is going, he could never string it together. GCKT is surplus and I would be happy to jettison Saab.

The current squad does not cut it, lance the issues and build towards something rather than settling for the middle