The Bully files

[Ryan]

If you read my post carefully, you will realise that I like Bully but would not have him in my starting team. I personally wouldn't have Paseka either in the starting team while we are at it. I think like Bully he is better off the bench for impact - like NAS in Melbourne.

but seeing you asked

Jake at prop for sure. Last time I checked he was picked at SOO in that position.

And I would start at Aloiai at prop over Bully as he is better equipped to soak up the early physicality. (that doesn't mean i prefer Aloiai over Bully overall, by the way)

And to be honest Brown had a better season than Bully last year overall, even though he dropped off in the last 6 weeks.

Like I said Bully is a really good impact player, and in my top 17, but he's better off the bench for impact when the game opens up a bit.

A couple of things here. Jake got dropped from rep footy (lack of speed is my opinion). Brown was completely rag dolled by every opposition & became completely irrelevant towards the end of the season. Bullemor took a step forward and got selected for Australia A. Aloiai - when he plays (the rare times he's available from suspension or injury) - I won't comment on.

I get we all have favorites though. We've come 11th and 7th in the past 2 years and everyone is celebrating and calling top 4 (with the signings of Taukeiaho, MCK and Tevaga). We need something different. It's a known fact we get torn up through the middles.

Everything we do is slow. Play-the-balls, defensive lines, in the forwards, ruck speed etc.

BUT, if we want to keep doing the same as we always have (over the past 11 years), fair enough.

 

[Rocky]

A couple of things here. Jake got dropped from rep footy (lack of speed is my opinion). Brown was completely rag dolled by every opposition & became completely irrelevant towards the end of the season. Bullemor took a step forward and got selected for Australia A. Aloiai - when he plays (the rare times he's available from suspension or injury) - I won't comment on.

I get we all have favorites though. We've come 11th and 7th in the past 2 years and everyone is celebrating and calling top 4 (with the signings of Taukeiaho, MCK and Tevaga). We need something different. It's a known fact we get torn up through the middles.

Everything we do is slow. Play-the-balls, defensive lines, in the forwards, ruck speed etc.

BUT, if we want to keep doing the same as we always have (over the past 11 years), fair enough.

I'm just commenting on the cattle we have and how I would play the cards I'm given - I can't magically get Payne Haas and Carrigan and Cam Murray into the team and swap out some of our plodders.

And by the way, I have agreed every time you have said we should focus on recruiting more mobile types. So, I've got no idea what your last few paragraphs are about and how they are relevant to me.

But one thing i will leave you with - if you think Bully is better than Jake on the basis that he is more mobile, then i don't know what to say.

 

[Scorpio]

Because who's better? Aloiai? Jake at prop? Brown? Sipley?

I can understand the debate about Paseka being better - but you tell me, out of all our props, who's better than Bully? In fact, I'd even say the same for our backrow stocks.....Haumole okay....but who else?

I could be wrong, but I think that Bullemor's attributes would be more effective against tiring defenses, rather than him just making a lot of hit-ups and tackles at the start of the game to set the tempo for the rest of the squad.

A lot of his highlights aren't him making big hits or tackles, they're in support or as a hole runner, or sprinting away in clear space... so if you made Bullemor a starting prop and brought one of our other props on to replace him, you'd be making both roles weaker.

 

[Stewbojevic]

I think we also need to get away from this concept that the best players start the game. Look at Spencer Leniu as an example.

I personally have Bully as our 4th best forward after Mole, Jake, and Paseka. But I wouldn’t start him because he adds more to the team by coming on later.

Even if you think he’s our best forward, that doesn’t mean he should necessarily start.

 

[Dion Johnson]

I think it’s difficult to say on Bully as he has come off the bench most of his games for Manly, has started as an edge backrower and I think the consensus is he is a far better middle than an edge forward.

He does have ability to change the momentum of games when introduced, showcasing his readiness to be a starter.

I personally think he didn’t get enough minutes last season and should be considered as a starter to see how he goes given his form.

He does make good yardage and his defensive game has improved.

 

[Ohgeez]

A couple of things here. Jake got dropped from rep footy (lack of speed is my opinion). Brown was completely rag dolled by every opposition & became completely irrelevant towards the end of the season. Bullemor took a step forward and got selected for Australia A. Aloiai - when he plays (the rare times he's available from suspension or injury) - I won't comment on.

I get we all have favorites though. We've come 11th and 7th in the past 2 years and everyone is celebrating and calling top 4 (with the signings of Taukeiaho, MCK and Tevaga). We need something different. It's a known fact we get torn up through the middles.

Everything we do is slow. Play-the-balls, defensive lines, in the forwards, ruck speed etc.

BUT, if we want to keep doing the same as we always have (over the past 11 years), fair enough.

Jake captained NSW to a winning series meanwhile Bull played the least amount of minutes for the prime minister’s 13 with guys like Fogarty, Seyfarth, & Sean Russel… surprisingly Jake actually played more minutes then Bull did in 2 out of the 3 games.

Honestly feels ridiculous even comparing a NSW rep to a Prime ministers 13 rep, Jake versing Cotter & Carrigan while Bull played against a 2nd string PNG Hunters pack 🤣 Would have been a disrespect for Jake to even be selected to play in a game like that.

As for our defence getting torn up how is he going to fix it?? He has great leg speed & is perfect coming from the bench when defenders are fatigued but is hardly going to stiffen up our defensive line. Hits like a marshmallow & is easily our least aggressive prop in the squad.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Hits like a marshmallow & is easily our least aggressive prop in the squad.

Lol
Harsh but yes, it is definitely the part of his game that needs to improve if he's to become a top level NRL forward.

 

[Disco]

One tiny thing.

Prime Ministers 13 is not Australia A. I mean Jake Simpkin has players Prime Ministers 13 as has Brad Parker.

Great to be selected and shows Bullys improvement but he is not on the fringes of the Test team.

I align with most here, Bully provides the best value to the team starting off the bench. You negate his key attributes starting him IMO.

Is he better than Aloiai for example....yes but I'd start Aloiai every day of the week.

As for the edge.....he aint an edge. Burbo as maligned as he is, is the better option there.

 

[Ryan]

I kind of feel you guys want more of the same !! Slow, immobile forwards who can defend. A slow as a bus hooker who can defend. But guess where all those defensive forwards have gotten us over the last 11 years?

For people who say Bullemor can't defend, he has a tackle efficiency of 95.7%, and with very little minutes (we all agree on that), an average of 80 metres run.

Someone mentioned Ben Trbojevic. His tackle efficiency is 87.47%, and with more time on the field when he DOES play, averages 57 metres run.

Others mentioned Jake Trbojevic. His tackle efficiency is 96.76%, and despite pretty well playing a FULL 80 most games, has averaged 85 metres run over the past 3 years.

Anyways, is what it is. We may well have Sipley, Jake, Brown, Tevaga, Croker, Burbo and others all on the field at the same time in parts this coming season - let's see how they fare against quick teams.

 

[Pete W]

I kind of feel you guys want more of the same !! Slow, immobile forwards who can defend. A slow as a bus hooker who can defend. But guess where all those defensive forwards have gotten us over the last 11 years?

For people who say Bullemor can't defend, he has a tackle efficiency of 95.7%, and with very little minutes (we all agree on that), an average of 80 metres run.

Someone mentioned Ben Trbojevic. His tackle efficiency is 87.47%, and with more time on the field when he DOES play, averages 57 metres run.

Others mentioned Jake Trbojevic. His tackle efficiency is 96.76%, and despite pretty well playing a FULL 80 most games, has averaged 85 metres run over the past 3 years.

Anyways, is what it is. We may well have Sipley, Jake, Brown, Tevaga, Croker, Burbo and others all on the field at the same time in parts this coming season - let's see how they fare against quick teams.

Broken record mate...
1) This is not the same team of 11 years
2) Bullemor's defensive issue have nothing to do with missed tackles
3) You can't possibly compare tackle efficiency between a middle and an edge
4) By what metric are you rating Burbo as slow?

 

[Disco]

I kind of feel you guys want more of the same !! Slow, immobile forwards who can defend. A slow as a bus hooker who can defend. But guess where all those defensive forwards have gotten us over the last 11 years?

For people who say Bullemor can't defend, he has a tackle efficiency of 95.7%, and with very little minutes (we all agree on that), an average of 80 metres run.

Someone mentioned Ben Trbojevic. His tackle efficiency is 87.47%, and with more time on the field when he DOES play, averages 57 metres run.

Others mentioned Jake Trbojevic. His tackle efficiency is 96.76%, and despite pretty well playing a FULL 80 most games, has averaged 85 metres run over the past 3 years.

Anyways, is what it is. We may well have Sipley, Jake, Brown, Tevaga, Croker, Burbo and others all on the field at the same time in parts this coming season - let's see how they fare against quick teams.

I want Bully's minutes increasing.

He averaged 32 last year and I'd like the see that closer to 50.

For all the things you say, we need a bit more speed and mobility through the middle.

But I maintain, starting him blunts him and Manly. By the time the middle loosens up where his angled runs and quick play the balls are most useful, he will be gassed.

Leave the first 20 to the more aggresive bigger middles then bring on Bully to play to his strengths for the rest of the game.

Also as an aside, comparing edge and middle stats is not a meaningful exercise.