The book of Defence.

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Have been seeing the subject of our D pop up in a lot of other threads. Perhaps it should have a home of its own right here.

I'm going to kick off with what will no doubt be a hotly contested view.

I don't think the philosophy behind our D is Broken. I dont think we need a total overhaul.

I think that as our results proved we just didn't have the players capable this year to get it right. The main issue was Tom. He reads the game so well and 9 out of 10 times in the correct place when he needs to be.

Without the likes of Tom, Walker and others covering the up and in wingers from behind we were destined to fail.

A full fit preseason to return and reload and we will be back to a brick wall.

 

[Waz13]

I also think the game has changed and defense is way inferior to attack now. Previously perhaps you could win games by being a good defensive unit and not scoring many points. Now the game is so attack heavy and fast paced it’s almost more a focus on winning the points shootout rather than closing a team down with D.

 

[IQofalimabean]

id find a 9 and 13 who are noted defenders and move jake to prop. That would make a good defensive middle that wouldnt get carved up.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Our defence has frequently been shot this year but partly it's the new nature of the game. Maybe? Last night 2 of the best sides and they both let in many points.
Let's see if there are any low scoring finals games.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Don’t think with these new rules that we’ll ever see a 4-2 scoreline again

 

[mickqld]

The game used to be that you would attack with your defense. Best defense always wins the finals but now it's all about attack and possessions. No longer realistic to think you can defend your way to a win. Penrith tried last night and it nearly came unstuck. Parra have been trying it but their lack of attack has cost them.

 

[Waz13]

Don’t think with these new rules that we’ll ever see a 4-2 scoreline again

Sadly I agree. You can still have classic low scoring games. Call me old fashioned but I love a good tight defensive game with high intensity. Remember that finals game we went down 4-0 to Easts. Was a classic match

 

[Damien2812]

Defensive games are great to watch and I'm afraid the game has gone down the path of T20 cricket. I'll always prefer test cricket because that's where your abilities get tested with bat, ball and fielding. The NRL atm with these new rules only encourages points with no real defensive games. It may look good to watch on TV but its boring just like T20 cricket..

 

[QueefRichards]

We always need to have the best gameplan for the players we have.

 

[Shoe1]

I also think the game has changed and defense is way inferior to attack now. Previously perhaps you could win games by being a good defensive unit and not scoring many points. Now the game is so attack heavy and fast paced it’s almost more a focus on winning the points shootout rather than closing a team down with D.

Exhibit A - 29-28 in last night’s semi

 

[jbb/james]

Defensive games are great to watch and I'm afraid the game has gone down the path of T20 cricket. I'll always prefer test cricket because that's where your abilities get tested with Bat, Ball and fielding. The NRL atm with these new rules only encourages points with no real defensive games. It may look good to watch on TV but its boring just like T20 cricket..

Both cricket and nrl were influenced from outside the game to change/enhance the product for tv in exchange for quick short sighted cash.
Both games are in trouble on and off the field
As a lover of both games i rarely tune in anymore.
Neither game is geared toward a contest . The games are about highlight reels . In a genuine contest people to for a wiz and a beer in the ad breaks. With modern games its hard to know whats the game and whats an ad

But manly defence was found out and exploited by coaches. I also think they know they have limited points in them without tom and walks and manese.

Against stronger defending outfits we couldnt busrst a pimple. We only scored points against the rabble when the season was dusted

I still think we have in house issues and the pace of the game just made it worse. We lack the leadership and belief tom gives the side but others obviously dont

 

[BOZO]

Our defence has frequently been shot this year but partly it's the new nature of the game. Maybe? Last night 2 of the best sides and they both let in many points.
Let's see if there are any low scoring finals games.

Interesting view you have there feathered friend . I did not see last nights games as now that Manly is out the finals do not interest me but you do make a valid point because since the new rules it has become a higher scoring game and it appears that a team with dynamic attacking players has the upper hand.
The game has become faster and as we know speed kills and the faster you go the bigger the mess

 

[manly al]

Just were not defending as a unit for the majority of this season , disrupted and relative inexperienced line ups did not help but the lack of communication and alertness combined with the now largely ineffective compressed defence were very notable Manly weaknesses .Most opposition sides knew we were vulnerable on the edges and usually did not have much trouble exploiting it . Unless the communication level is improved all round , especially on the edges and wingers know or are confident to stay in position , just going to be a continuation of leaking a lot of points and harder to be competitive . Match against the Titans in particular showed how much and how poor our defensive resolve had dropped this season , part attitude but also just simple better application . B T W , do we have a defensive coach ?

 

[mosto]

Have been seeing the subject of our D pop up in a lot of other threads. Perhaps it should have a home of its own right here.

I'm going to kick off with what will no doubt be a hotly contested view.

I don't think the philosophy behind our D is Broken. I dont think we need a total overhaul.

I think that as our results proved we just didn't have the players capable this year to get it right. The main issue was Tom. He reads the game so well and 9 out of 10 times in the correct place when he needs to be.

Without the likes of Tom, Walker and others covering the up and in wingers from behind we were destined to fail.

A full fit preseason to return and reload and we will be back to a brick wall.

It’s a valid point re the outside defenders. Our right edge conceded 42 tries this year. Only Broncos left edge (42) and Bulldogs left edge (43) conceded same or more. A big part of that is injuries. Right centre in particular was a revolving door with Suli, Funa, Hopoate, Harper and others all being used there at some point.

Parker cops a lot of **** on here but I personally rate him, particularly defensively. The left edge was relatively solid in defense and while not the quickest centre, he’s potent enough in attack, particularly when those inside him can create some space. My centres next year would be Parker and Walker.

 

[manlyfan76]

The game used to be that you would attack with your defense. Best defense always wins the finals but now it's all about attack and possessions. No longer realistic to think you can defend your way to a win. Penrith tried last night and it nearly came unstuck. Parra have been trying it but their lack of attack has cost them.

Exactly. How many times does the best defensive team play in the grand final. Always or thereabouts.

 

[Shoe1]

Manly could defend well for periods, but our main problem was letting in clusters of tries in short periods. This was particularly frustrating especially when manly would then score a few tries and get within 6 points of a win.

I wonder how the coaching staff and team will address this.

To let in one try may be regarded as misfortune, but regularly letting in 3 or 4 back to back in 15 minutes looks like carelessness, to paraphrase Oscar Wilde.

 

[shawn.b]

It seems that the whole game is now geared to attack with defence an afterthought.
If the NRL are going to continue with this they need to look at changing the kick off rule so that the scoring team kicks off to resume play.
As it is now, with penalties & six again calls the defending team has to hope for a dropped ball (or dodgy call) to get a chance.

 

[MANLY12]

I believe our defence has struggled without Turbo and even Elliot, however some of our players in the middle tend to be lazy. For example, watch the Brimson try against us, and observe the reaction from Taupau when Brimson gets passed the ball. Compare this to Papalli who chased till the death.

 

[Ryan]

While Matt Ballin wasn't the fastest hooker on his legs, he gave fast, crisp service out of dummy half, and his 50 odd tackles in the middle per game would really suit today's game. Api was the same, in around the tackling ability.

Really glues up your middle.

I'm not sure Levi had the work-rate required to suit the modern game.

I do see a lot of Matty Ballin (on the field) with Manase Fainu. I really hope he gets back on the park as soon as possible (if innocent), because a whole lot of today's game is based around the hooker and halves.

 

[voicefromthehill]

I know it is out there - but I would love the stats about the impact "6 again" has on the game. From everything I have seen the individual interpretation of an offence deserving of that impost varies wildly. And once the advantage is applied it seems to compound.

As a result it creates a fatigue which is difficult to overcome - so the defence isn't the issue , rather the application of defensive tactics to mitigate back to back sets due to the '6 again' or as it is called in my circles the 'leg up'