Shameful lack of tradition

[47MVEagle]

For you No. Everyone else would get that these players do not have a problem playing with a person who is gay or of colour or of a different religion. They do not want to wear a jersey they are not comfortable representing. It was in reply to Tragic eagles comment of what next, that they will refuse to play with or against someone gay.

Get off your high horse mate - you've been doing nothing but disliking & disagreeing any post that has a progressive mindset while offering very little opinion of your own - are you incapable of articulating your thoughts or just scared of what they might reveal about you should you do so?

What's the difference between players playing with persons of colour & wearing the Indigenous round jersey & players playing with gay people & refusing to wear the pride jersey?

Would you defend the rights of players to refuse to wear the Indigenous jersey if they ever did so?

 

[davohan123]

As an owner and Chairman of the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, the key message from me to our club and supporters, the rugby league community and a wider society is a simple one:

The Manly Warringah Sea Eagles represent inclusiveness.

We do not discriminate between an individual’s race, religion, gender, disability, sexual orientation or anything else that we should be celebrating collectively as an evolved society.
We respect all individuals.

These values and beliefs were the motivation behind why we wanted to create a jersey that represented EVERYONE IN LEAGUE.

It should have been an acknowledgement that celebrated differences under the banner of inclusiveness.

We are all different in many ways, but we are all the same - we are all human beings.
I stand with the club’s management and the inspiration for why we wanted to do this.

But whilst the intention of why we wanted to do this was authentic – and still is - we must learn from how the message was lost in translation through the process of implementation.

I accept that our own genuine narrative of why we wanted to celebrate inclusiveness has been lost.

Our promotion of inclusiveness – and why we were doing it - needed to start more broadly internally - with all staff and players engaged before it was communicated publicly.

This is something that is being addressed internally – and will be further led by the incoming Chief Executive Officer Tony Mestrov who starts in his role on Monday.

We have learned lessons from this and we hope others may learn lessons from this also, but we will make no apologies for why we were motivated to do it.

I have read a lot of the commentary this week before arriving back in Sydney today. Some of it is fair, some is not.

But I accept that Manly Warringah Sea Eagles now has the job to unite its club, players, supporters and become the leader of inclusiveness that we whole-heartedly desire to be.

As a football team, our Manly side will tonight play the Sydney Roosters for the Gotcha4Life Cup, which is an important part of our club’s engagement with the mental health charity led by a champion of inclusion, Gus Worland.

As reported, a portion of the proceeds from the match will be used to make a difference to the mental health of members of the LGBTQ+ community.

Our fantastic sponsor Shaw & Partners have donated $100,000 to Gotcha4Life as a result of their commitment to supporting Mental Health.
The Owners of the Sea Eagles intend to match their commitment and will also be donating $100,000 to Gotcha4Life to celebrate inclusiveness and the importance of positive mental health

Sea Eagles

The Official Website of the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles.

www.seaeagles.com.au

https://www.nrlnt.com.au/

 

[Bearfax]

That’s another belief.

We can change beliefs and people do. Fact.
I have changed my own beliefs throughout the course of my life time.

So have I. I was at one stage a fundamentalist Christian. I'm now Agnostic. Thats not the point. Its the question of choice. I dont believe what I once did because of a long process of experience and consideration. But it was my decision, not a decision made by others and that my friend is what the issue is about, not just he belief, the choice to believe..

Have a look at America at present. So many divergent values that we may find astonishing. Abortion for one. Strong positions for and against. I recall when I first worked as a Parole Officer I was supervising people on probation for committing homosexual acts. That was the law back then. Abortion was also a hot potato.

I once had to write a report on a young fellow who had assisted his father to suicide (euthanasia). The father was dying and in severe pain, but our system refused to allow him to end his life despite pleas to his medical and family contacts. No chance of getting better. The son finally acceded to his request to get an old gun the father had stored and over night to man shot himself. He believed what he did was right. The Law had a different position. The son was convicted. Fortunately my report and that of a psychiatrist convinced the compassionate judge that the son had acted out of compassion and though convicted, the son was sentenced to the rising of the Court. In most cases he would have served prison time.

Such is the nature of values. Each generation develops slightly different values and after many generations as has been shown in history, values change markedly. In a hundred years people will look back on us with some amusement, maybe astonishment regarding the values we now hold. Values are not sacrosanct, though many will think so. Imagine Pac Islanders who have been raised in a quite different value system. They would think we are at fault.

I learned a long time ago, not to assume that what I accept, is right. I just try to be honest with myself as no doubt these footballers are being. In time their values may change especially if consultation with the leaders of their Church can reach a more middle ground. That is what should have happened. But you cant force someone to think differently, at least not without careful discussion and consultation. And then that may not change it either.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

So have I. I was at one stage a fundamentalist Christian. I'm now Agnostic. Thats not the point. Its the question of choice. I dont believe what I once did because of a long process of experience and consideration. But it was my decision, not a decision made by others and that my friend is what the issue is about, not just he belief, the choice to believe..

Have a look at America at present. So many divergent values that we may find astonishing. Abortion for one. Strong positions for and against. I recall when I first worked as a Parole Officer I was supervising people on probation for committing homosexual acts. That was the law back then. Abortion was also a hot potato.

I once had to write a report on a young fellow who had assisted his father to suicide (euthanasia). The father was dying and in severe pain, but our system refused to allow him to end his life despite pleas to his medical and family contacts. No chance of getting better. The son finally acceded to his request to get an old gun the father had stored and over night to man shot himself. He believed what he did was right. The Law had a different position. The son was convicted. Fortunately my report and that of a psychiatrist convinced the compassionate judge that the son had acted out of compassion and though convicted, the son was sentenced to the rising of the Court. In most cases he would have served prison time.

Such is the nature of values. Each generation develops slightly different values and after many generations as has been shown in history, values change markedly. In a hundred years people will look back on us with some amusement, maybe astonishment regarding the values we now hold. Values are not sacrosanct, though many will think so. Imagine Pac Islanders who have been raised in a quite different value system. They would think we are at fault.

I learned a long time ago, not to assume that what I accept, is right. I just try to be honest with myself as no doubt these footballers are being. In time their values may change especially if consultation with the leaders of their Church can reach a more middle ground. That is what should have happened. But you cant force someone to think differently, at least not without careful discussion and consultation. And then that may not change it either.

Values and beliefs....issues that were so ingrained that you could not wear a jersey last night cant surely change over night where you now state that you will wear the jersey next year if the club asks you first. These guys have in my mind totally over reacted - someone has coordinated/supervised the protest (Aloiai/Manager) and response and are now trying to backtrack at a million miles an hour. Surely such ingrained beliefs cannot be overcome by someone sitting them down and saying - hey boys do you mind if we have a gay pride jersey on this weekend and the boys go - hey this is totally against our religion/beliefs/culture but given you asked we will forget how we were raised and we will forgo those ingrained beliefs? Ohh please!

 

[Bearfax]

Values and beliefs....issues that were so ingrained that you could not wear a jersey last night cant surely change over night where you now state that you will wear the jersey next year if the club asks you first. These guys have in my mind totally over reacted - someone has coordinated/supervised the protest (Aloiai/Manager) and response and are now trying to backtrack at a million miles an hour. Surely such ingrained beliefs cannot be overcome by someone sitting them down and saying - hey boys do you mind if we have a gay pride jersey on this weekend and the boys go - hey this is totally against our religion/beliefs/culture but given you asked we will forget how we were raised and we will forgo those ingrained beliefs? Ohh please!

Hey BT I'm not saying its easy. I well know that entrenched attitudes are very hard to break. Usually it takes exposure to alternatives over extended periods to change a way of thinking. I believe you are right to suggest the influence of others, perhaps a leader, but that is one of the fundamental methods of maintaining an attitude, that is through association with others who share and reinforce that attitude. Its not insidious though, it is a normal human reaction. We are all influenced by those with whom we associate (or share a value on the net like we are doing), one of the fundamentals of conditioning. You cant blame them of that, anymore than any of us hanging around a barbecue with our best friends and discussing politics. If we share certain perspectives, that association will reinforce it.

There are ways of beginning to break certain values we may think not fitting the social structure we live within. One is open discussion, another is meeting and getting to know those who think differently on a personal level. Exposure is the key. I think we all know that almost instinctively. Broadening one's social network to include others who dont think the same way. When one is conditioned it takes time to challenge. I was raised in a strong Christian environment. I was ear-marked to be a Methodist minister and was training to be one at one stage. The Protestant, lower middle class, Anglo Australian attitudes of the late 20th century were well entrenched. But I moved on, mainly through changes of association and broadening my perspective. I sometimes talk with people I knew in those early years and now realise how differently I think. Its not an unusual occurrence for many of us. But we have to have cause to do it, and then to do it voluntarily. Have others force it, and those values you're seeking to leave behind often become more entrenched.

But I suspect most of us already know what I am suggesting even intuitively. Its not rocket science, as they say

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Hey BT I'm not saying its easy. I well know that entrenched attitudes are very hard to break. Usually it takes exposure to alternatives over extended periods to change a way of thinking. I believe you are right to suggest the influence of others, perhaps a leader, but that is one of the fundamental methods of maintaining an attitude, that is through association with others who share and reinforce that attitude. Its not insidious though, it is a normal human reaction. We are all influenced by those with whom we associate (or share a value on the net like we are doing), one of the fundamentals of conditioning. You cant blame them of that, anymore than any of us hanging around a barbecue with our best friends and discussing politics. If we share certain perspectives, that association will reinforce it.

There are ways of beginning to break certain values we may think not fitting the social structure we live within. One is open discussion, another is meeting and getting to know those who think differently on a personal level. Exposure is the key. I think we all know that almost instinctively. Broadening one's social network to include others who dont think the same way. When one is conditioned it takes time to challenge. I was raised in a strong Christian environment. I was ear-marked to be a Methodist minister and was training to be one at one stage. The Protestant, lower middle class, Anglo Australian attitudes of the late 20th century were well entrenched. But I moved on, mainly through changes of association and broadening my perspective. I sometimes talk with people I knew in those early years and now realise how differently I think. Its not an unusual occurrence for many of us. But we have to have cause to do it, and then to do it voluntarily. Have others force it, and those values you're seeking to leave behind often become more entrenched.

But I suspect most of us already know what I am suggesting even intuitively. Its not rocket science, as they say

Appreciate your perspective totally. Thank you. My problem is the hypocrisy of it all. You must accept our views/religion but we wont accept the lifestyle of others. We will wear a jersey with gambling blazoned everywhere and play at an alcohol named venue but we wont wear a jersey with a stripe. This is our firm belief and we refuse to play... but we will play next year!!!!!!!!! I was also raised in a Christian environment and had to go to Sunday school every week... missing junior footy some weeks because it clashed and I seethed lol. My extended family were very significant back in the day in the Brisbane Baptist community. I absolutely respect the rights of people to have their own views/beliefs but those views/beliefs must be consistent with the ideals of how you want to be respected. If you demand that your culture/heritage is respected... you cant then treat other law abiding citizens in the manner you believe is offensive if you were being treated like that. As I said... their teachings/scripture/upbringing has not changed in 12 hours from refusing to play last night... to we will play next year. Absolutely astounding.

 

[Bearfax]

Appreciate your perspective totally. Thank you. My problem is the hypocrisy of it all. You must accept our views/religion but we wont accept the lifestyle of others. We will wear a jersey with gambling blazoned everywhere and play at an alcohol named venue but we wont wear a jersey with a stripe. This is our firm belief and we refuse to play... but we will play next year!!!!!!!!! I was also raised in a Christian environment and had to go to Sunday school every week... missing junior footy some weeks because it clashed and I seethed lol. My extended family were very significant back in the day in the Brisbane Baptist community. I absolutely respect the rights of people to have their own views/beliefs but those views/beliefs must be consistent with the ideals of how you want to be respected. If you demand that your culture/heritage is respected... you cant then treat other law abiding citizens in the manner you believe is offensive if you were being treated like that. As I said... their teachings/scripture/upbringing has not changed in 12 hours from refusing to play last night... to we will play next year. Absolutely astounding.

Firstly I am not supporting their position. I just think I understand elements of it. But I'm not one of them so I may have it all quite wrong. However hypocrisy regrettably is part of what makes us human. Take the extreme Christian Republicans in the US (and this is not aimed at the moderate Republicans who are probably of a totally different ilk)

They espouse so called Christian values (Morrison was part of this extreme Christian perspective and again this isnt an attack against moderate Liberals). They argue about the sanctity of life and therefore oppose abortion and yet they support very liberal sales of serious weaponry to their citizens resulting in ongoing serious violence and death. They oppose universal health care. Many have serious racist attitudes. Their leaders often get American (and Australia) into overseas wars which do nothing more than make the situation worse. This is supposedly a Christian society. Yep hypocrisy.

Unfortunately though, these attitudes are entrenched and reinforced by those they associate with, and powerful behind the scenes forces pushing this distorted propaganda usually for vested interests

I'm not suggesting the Pac Islanders are similar to what's happening there, but the values they hold are also entrenched and dont fit the direction our society is heading. Not their fault, they are pawns in this process. Hopefully through serious consultation something better will be achieved. And certainly now the Not so Magnificent 7 will look at what their replacements have achieved against the Roosters and hopefully feel inspired to take as much pride in performance as their replacements did. At least I hope so.