Seibold Ball

[Terry Zarsoff]

A Randall, Gillespie type won't necessarily equate to better defensive structure. It might teach some of them how to tackle better. They need someone who can formulate a working system that gets them all operating as one in defence. It has been an ongoing issue that requires immediate attention from a dedicated coach.

Brad Arthur….come on down!

He certainly had the defensive systems humming in 2013.

 

[Bearfax]

The 1997 Sea Eagles made a grand final in a season where they lost 41 (7 tries) to 8 vs Norths.

Factor in how the NRL in 2025 is a 2x or 3x higher points scoring league than footy in 1997.

A 50 point loss in 2025 is a 30 point loss 20 years ago. A 48-24 is more like 36-18 in 1990s or 20-5 in the 1970s.

Blaming the coach or players effort or attitude is trite or unfair when then the NRL has made the game such that one team can have possession of the ball for 10 minutes straight compounded with all the biases that are given to favour the team with the ball.

Manly were made be the Washington Generals and there's not much you can do to stop it.

Fans will stop going to games if the NRL doesn't wake up. Too many blowouts and lack of contests. Imagine if every boxing bout was won in the first 3 rounds. No one would pay to watch.

Its not blaming the coach and players. Its saying there is a fundamental flaw in how Manly defends. Fulton always impressed that to be a champion side, your defence must be the first element to be focussed on. This side has for several years had defensive issues. I thought last year they were finally fixing it with 6th best defensive effort in the comp. but now after 5 rounds they are equal 11th defensively. I have no issues regarding the attack, which I believe is top 4 quality. What lets this team down is their defense. Maybe too early to be too critical but despite that 1997 loss, which mind you was in a comp with almost half the teams playing elsewhere owing to the Superleague war,, that team still had one of the best defensive records in that comp.

 

[BOZO]

Brad Arthur….come on down!

He certainly had the defensive systems humming in 2013.

Good morning feathered friend ,
Both Seibold and BA have a wooden spoon on their resume
No Great coach with Great defensive systems Gets the wooden spoon

 

[Brookie1973]

Des got lucky , a great group of juniors ad they bought two key players , Kite ( who became the forward leader ) and the final piece of the puzzle , Orford.

That success was nothing to do with systems.

And you've totally missed my point , the main point was “ Melbourne are constantly successful as a result of this “, and yes they spend a lot of cash to do this , so say what you will , the constant down there is “ the big cash influenced systems “.

I’m not arguing that the Storm don’t have lots of money, they obviously do. I am arguing against the mindset that we therefore can’t compete and will never be able to until we get a wealthier owner. And I think the players of the 2007-2014 era would probably take exception to the view they succeeded because des got lucky. I prefer to think they succeeded because they bled maroon and white and played in a “system” that bred mateship and a team first attitude.

 

[Rafferty]

Brad Arthur….come on down!

He certainly had the defensive systems humming in 2013.

We could’ve had BA as head coach, but those in head office stuck with the incumbent, why one will never know.

BA would’ve of brought back some steel and made sure we were fit, his a no nonsense type of bloke, I was all for it, but here’s the kicker, I’m not in charge and thats a lucky thing for many at our club.

BA running the show all in as the defensive coach while bringing someone in to handle the offensive side, just not TB.

Anyway we have Weapons Seidud and his visionary version of the game sown up for the next 3 years, (maybe) how inspiring. Buckle up, one thinks life as an Eagles supporter is about to get bumpy.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I’m not arguing that the Storm don’t have lots of money, they obviously do. I am arguing against the mindset that we therefore can’t compete and will never be able to until we get a wealthier owner. And I think the players of the 2007-2014 era would probably take exception to the view they succeeded because des got lucky. I prefer to think they succeeded because they bled maroon and white and played in a “system” that bred mateship and a team first attitude.

The “ Des got lucky “ comment was in relation to the dedicated roster of youngins who went on to become legends, led beautifully by the two major recruits at the time.

Players who then went on to take unders to stay together , they were a very special bunch of players.

Only the three brothers from the current side have those qualities , the rest , just there for the payday.

Des did get lucky , that was a very very special group.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

We could’ve had BA as head coach, but those in head office stuck with the incumbent, why one will never know.

BA would’ve of brought back some steel and made sure we were fit, his a no nonsense type of bloke, I was all for it, but here’s the kicker, I’m not in charge and thats a lucky thing for many at our club.

BA running the show all in as the defensive coach while bringing someone in to handle the offensive side, just not TB.

Anyway we have Weapons Seidud and his visionary version of the game sown up for the next 3 years, (maybe) how inspiring. Buckle up, one thinks life as an Eagles supporter is about to get bumpy.

Oh and BA was so so successful in his last gig wasn’t he 😂😂😂😂

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

The “ Seidud” cartel are very strong at present , we win games , you hear nothing , we lose against the premiership favourite and suddenly he’s the worst coach in the game.

Funny but I got a message yesterday from a previous long standing member , who checks in occasionally but doesn’t comment any more , his words “ not much has changed with Silvertails has it , still THE most negative bunch of Manly fans on the planet “

 

[Rocky]

We could’ve had BA as head coach, but those in head office stuck with the incumbent, why one will never know.

BA would’ve of brought back some steel and made sure we were fit, his a no nonsense type of bloke, I was all for it, but here’s the kicker, I’m not in charge and thats a lucky thing for many at our club.

BA running the show all in as the defensive coach while bringing someone in to handle the offensive side, just not TB.

Anyway we have Weapons Seidud and his visionary version of the game sown up for the next 3 years, (maybe) how inspiring. Buckle up, one thinks life as an Eagles supporter is about to get bumpy.

The same BA that

"set an unwanted coaching record, becoming the first head coach in 112 seasons of the game to coach a side for seven consecutive years and fail to make at least one preliminary final"

that guy?

 

[Budgie]

Yes, and Steve Hales is no different. Poor physical condition around an elite sporting organisation is never a good look. How do you drive standards when you don’t appear to have any of your own?

I remember reading Wayne Bennett would bench press in the gym. We all know about Dessie’s legendary fitness.

I’m not suggesting these guys need to be elite athletes themselves but if I was a budding FG coach, I would do everything in my power to ensure the optics are where they need to be. Getting physically fit is within the realms of control.

Give me a fat bloke (or woman) with a brain and a high eq any day

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Whilst having loads of money is great and helps, it doesn’t win you premierships. There’s way more to it than that. We’ve never had much coin as a club - well not for the last 30 years anyway. But we’ve managed to win premierships within that time. Melbourne haven’t won one for a while either despite all that money. Yeah they’re always competitive but you still need good players and a good coach AND things to go your way. That said, I’d be happy to see more money spent on our team - I just don’t think we should shrug our shoulders and let poor performances slide and accept mediocrity because we don’t have enough money. It’s not an excuse.

I actually never once said “ it wins the Storm premierships “, what did say was “ it’s one of the reasons they are highly competitive and usually top 4, every year”.

And the dollars they spend on their “ system “ is testament to their continued success.

But even the Storm, with their fabulous system ( and loads of cash ) don’t win all the time

 

[manly al]

Having seen this first hand ( in my previous work life ) the Storms Melbourne HQ and their “ system” need to be seen to be believed.

Their owners , backers , spend far more than any other club on every single thing you can imagine to achieve almost perfection.

Much is attributed to Bellamy , and fair enough , but the system that club have built since its inception is second to none & I have little doubt when Bellyache eventually retires it will continue unabated regardless of who takes over.

They employ the very best of people in every role , and there’s a team for every role.

I got a look at two of their areas , sports nutrition and their rehabilitation set up.

I know we’ve sent Tom to Philadelphia ( and the Storm sent Papy there too ) but their rehab system is to be seen to be believed , there’s probably 30 people involved in just that one section and with the very top knee , shoulder , wrist , elbow etc etc specialists at their beck & call , it’s a whole football department within a football department.

We had a presentation from a sports nutrition expert , there’s about 15 in that team, what every single player eats , drinks , ingests is extremely carefully controlled & designed individually for that player. Think “ Hello Fresh “ on steroids. I actually asked the question about what their families ate and the response was “ we work with each player , their wives ( girlfriends etc etc ) to ensure the player sticks rigidly to “ the plan “.

It’s hard to describe to anyone who hasn’t seen it but I’d suggest they spend tens of millions on their system , staff , facilities etc etc.

By comparison I bet Manly spend not a cent more than what’s allocated to them by the NRL, meaning their rehab set up ( using this as an example ) might have 2-3 staff , and you can bet they’ll have a sports nutritionist as well , but it would be A sports nutritionist not a team of 15.

It always annoys me on Silvertails when we get compared to the top ( rich) clubs because my view there’s just no comparison.

God love the Penn’s ( because without them we mightn’t even have a club ) but it’s very clear to me that if,

1) the salary cap is 13 million , we spend 13 million and maybe a little extra with third party sponsors.
2) if the football department cap is 5 million , we spend 5 million and not a cent more.

We will always be a middle of the road club ( sadly ) , and have been since the Penns took over 100% control.

Until we magically find a very rich benefactor who for the fun of it wants to throw 20 million a year extra into the club we will always run where we run.

Certainly some very interesting insights there
Guess that even if it only results in say a 5 % competitive [ and that is just a speculative take ] advantage and in the recovery and preparation areas , can make a real difference on a season "s prospects .
Probably was more trying to emphasise how they have seemed to identify quite average or unknown ability players and in most instances or seems that way , those same players just go to another level .
Probably more attribute that to just very astute scouting methods .
May help having some apparent really good networking in places like the Sunshine Coast , a huge growth area for some time now of course but again could also be with some very astute footy observers and following one of the best in Peter O " Osullivan .
Plus whatever coaching good touches that Bellemy seems to be able to impart , at least at a club level for ages now .
Anyway, sure that most clubs do try and emulate the Storm's formula and guess that clubs like the Panthers , Broncs , Roosters and probably now Dogs try to do it in their own ways as well or have the means to .
Range of reasons why Manly may be a bit off the pace at times [ and really don "t think that the facilities aspect is that significant ] but mainly including their concentration of funds on a select group of players and regretfully a combination of not ideal value for money over time from a couple and one of the comps best when at his best in Turbo missing such a high proportion of games ,has never allowed the optimum outcomes
No question Manly have done well in junior recruitment with guys like Haumole , Koula , Saab and Tent in recent seasons and some apparent good up and comers coming through now so maybe still some window not too far down the track

 

[Brookie1973]

The “ Des got lucky “ comment was in relation to the dedicated roster of youngins who went on to become legends, led beautifully by the two major recruits at the time.

Players who then went on to take unders to stay together , they were a very special bunch of players.

Only the three brothers from the current side have those qualities , the rest , just there for the payday.

Des did get lucky , that was a very very special group.

We will have to agree to disagree about whether our success back then was just luck, and you don’t need to tell any Manly fan of that era how special that group was. I stand by my view that we don’t need a mega rich owner to succeed, we just need to invest in Manly DNA - preferably with a Manly man as coach, who can mold a team of players committed to the club and each other, just like in 2007-2014 and just like what Gus Gould is doing at the dogs - you can see the bulldogs DNA re-emerging in a team Manly could just as easily have assembled, regardless of how deep our owners pockets are. Just one example - it’s not Scott Penns fault that Jacob Preston wasn’t identified in juniors, it’s the fault of a club that didn’t prioritise investment in Manly DNA.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Certainly some very interesting insights there
Guess that even if it only results in say a 5 % competitive [ and that is just a speculative take ] advantage and in the recovery and preparation areas , can make a real difference on a season "s prospects .
Probably was more trying to emphasise how they have seemed to identify quite average or unknown ability players and in most instances or seems that way , those same players just go to another level .
Probably more attribute that to just very astute scouting methods .
May help having some apparent really good networking in places like the Sunshine Coast , a huge growth area for some time now of course but again could also be with some very astute footy observers and following one of the best in Peter O " Osullivan .
Plus whatever coaching good touches that Bellemy seems to be able to impart , at least at a club level for ages now .
Anyway, sure that most clubs do try and emulate the Storm's formula and guess that clubs like the Panthers , Broncs , Roosters and probably now Dogs try to do it in their own ways as well or have the means to .
Range of reasons why Manly may be a bit off the pace at times [ and really don "t think that the facilities aspect is that significant ] but mainly including their concentration of funds on a select group of players and regretfully a combination of not ideal value for money over time from a couple and one of the comps best when at his best in Turbo missing such a high proportion of games ,has never allowed the optimum outcomes
No question Manly have done well in junior recruitment with guys like Haumole , Koula , Saab and Tent in recent seasons and some apparent good up and comers coming through now so maybe still some window not too far down the track

The “ big 4” would all have those facilities and support teams

Broncos
Storm
Panthers
Bulldogs

The Bulldogs are new to the group with the “ Laundy Billions” a more recent addition.

Now I do confirm that this doesn’t guarantee success , but it certainly gives those teams an edge.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

We will have to agree to disagree about whether our success back then was just luck, and you don’t need to tell any Manly fan of that era how special that group was. I stand by my view that we don’t need a mega rich owner to succeed, we just need to invest in Manly DNA - preferably with a Manly man as coach, who can mold a team of players committed to the club and each other, just like in 2007-2014 and just like what Gus Gould is doing at the dogs - you can see the bulldogs DNA re-emerging in a team Manly could just as easily have assembled, regardless of how deep our owners pockets are. Just one example - it’s not Scott Penns fault that Jacob Preston wasn’t identified in juniors, it’s the fault of a club that didn’t prioritise investment in Manly DNA.

Again you pick apart my argument to suit your narrative.

I never said “ our success then was pure luck “ I simply said “ Des got lucky “, he inherited , and yes developed , and unbelievable set of young guns who became legends.

Aided by two very astute signings.

Des “ didn’t get lucky “ when he came back , he inherited a poor team , and what did he then do , Manly DNA and all , the answer , not much !!

I rest my case

 

[manly al]

Hey Mark, do you know where my Club/Brookie membership money and the gate takings for non members goes?

Apparently requires around the 22 mil figure [could even be a bit more now ] at a bare minimum to operate an N R L franchise .
Really not sure how much would be received or accrued for Manly from gate takings , memberships , sponsorships and so on and with the current cap at 11 , 3 mil , presumably then around 1 , 7 mil from the N R L allocations to use somewhere else '
Looks like some profit margin in recent times for the Penns but prior to that for many seasons , some definite yearly losses .
Looks like there will always be conjecture on the benefits , non benefits of having the Penns as the majority owners [ and still would assume that it is the 62 % range ] , so that is another topic all together

 

[manly al]

Guess that is the thing also , if the Penns did ever consider selling their ownership stake in Manly, how the other stakeholders with the Manly footy club and those pair that bought a 15 % component many years ago now , would or would not be impacted .
Presume they would still be entitled to maintain their franchise positions , well definitely would hope in the case of the footy club entity

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

The “ big 4” would all have those facilities and support teams

Broncos
Storm
Panthers
Bulldogs

The Bulldogs are new to the group with the “ Laundy Billions” a more recent addition.

Now I do confirm that this doesn’t guarantee success , but it certainly gives those teams an edge.

BLUF: Obviously all clubs get an equal share from the NRL/ARLC coffers every year.

I think a more pertinent point here is that the Dishlickers have a leagues club that can still pour meaningful amounts of money into their associated footballing operation.

The Laundy family’s wealth is currently estimated at around $1.6 billion.

Unless I missed it, they do not own a share in the Bulldogs - they are sponsors - with presumably some influence at board level. So arguments about their supposed wealth, vis a vis a football club, seem largely irrelevant. Unless they’re topping up the district club to the tune of several million dollars per year, over and above their sponsorship, which seems unlikely.*

*Of course, I could be wrong on that front.🙂

 

[Chunkytuna]

I actually never once said “ it wins the Storm premierships “, what did say was “ it’s one of the reasons they are highly competitive and usually top 4, every year”.

And the dollars they spend on their “ system “ is testament to their continued success.

But even the Storm, with their fabulous system ( and loads of cash ) don’t win all the time

That wasn’t the point I was making (a bit unclearly, admittedly). I guess my point is, we can’t and shouldn’t settle for our team being “middle of the road” simply because we don’t have the same level of funding as some other clubs. It’s not an excuse and it lets poor play, poor coaching and poor standards all round, off the hook too easily IMO.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

That wasn’t the point I was making (a bit unclearly, admittedly). I guess my point is, we can’t and shouldn’t settle for our team being “middle of the road” simply because we don’t have the same level of funding as some other clubs. It’s not an excuse and it lets poor play, poor coaching and poor standards all round, off the hook too easily IMO.

Can’t disagree with that