Seibold Ball

[Mark from Brisbane]

Storm to their credit have seemed to have done quite well with money ball or initial money ball acquisitions for some time now and particularly in recent times with their backrow and outside backs .
Plus Bellemy 's ability to somehow get the best out of them and over tome now also .
Not too different from some of the circumstances with Manly 's successful eras in 2008 and 20011 .
All clubs try and manage it and Manly and the current coaching staff of course no different right now but Storm quite legitimately have got good results fairly regularly for a while now

Having seen this first hand ( in my previous work life ) the Storms Melbourne HQ and their “ system” need to be seen to be believed.

Their owners , backers , spend far more than any other club on every single thing you can imagine to achieve almost perfection.

Much is attributed to Bellamy , and fair enough , but the system that club have built since its inception is second to none & I have little doubt when Bellyache eventually retires it will continue unabated regardless of who takes over.

They employ the very best of people in every role , and there’s a team for every role.

I got a look at two of their areas , sports nutrition and their rehabilitation set up.

I know we’ve sent Tom to Philadelphia ( and the Storm sent Papy there too ) but their rehab system is to be seen to be believed , there’s probably 30 people involved in just that one section and with the very top knee , shoulder , wrist , elbow etc etc specialists at their beck & call , it’s a whole football department within a football department.

We had a presentation from a sports nutrition expert , there’s about 15 in that team, what every single player eats , drinks , ingests is extremely carefully controlled & designed individually for that player. Think “ Hello Fresh “ on steroids. I actually asked the question about what their families ate and the response was “ we work with each player , their wives ( girlfriends etc etc ) to ensure the player sticks rigidly to “ the plan “.

It’s hard to describe to anyone who hasn’t seen it but I’d suggest they spend tens of millions on their system , staff , facilities etc etc.

By comparison I bet Manly spend not a cent more than what’s allocated to them by the NRL, meaning their rehab set up ( using this as an example ) might have 2-3 staff , and you can bet they’ll have a sports nutritionist as well , but it would be A sports nutritionist not a team of 15.

It always annoys me on Silvertails when we get compared to the top ( rich) clubs because my view there’s just no comparison.

God love the Penn’s ( because without them we mightn’t even have a club ) but it’s very clear to me that if,

1) the salary cap is 13 million , we spend 13 million and maybe a little extra with third party sponsors.
2) if the football department cap is 5 million , we spend 5 million and not a cent more.

We will always be a middle of the road club ( sadly ) , and have been since the Penns took over 100% control.

Until we magically find a very rich benefactor who for the fun of it wants to throw 20 million a year extra into the club we will always run where we run.

 

[Seagles68]

Having seen this first hand ( in my previous work life ) the Storms Melbourne HQ and their “ system” need to be seen to be believed.

Their owners , backers , spend far more than any other club on every single thing you can imagine to achieve almost perfection.

Much is attributed to Bellamy , and fair enough , but the system that club have built since its inception is second to none & I have little doubt when Bellyache eventually retires it will continue unabated regardless of who takes over.

They employ the very best of people in every role , and there’s a team for every role.

I got a look at two of their areas , sports nutrition and their rehabilitation set up.

I know we’ve sent Tom to Philadelphia ( and the Storm sent Papy there too ) but their rehab system is to be seen to be believed , there’s probably 30 people involved in just that one section and with the very top knee , shoulder , wrist , elbow etc etc specialists at their beck & call , it’s a whole football department within a football department.

We had a presentation from a sports nutrition expert , there’s about 15 in that team, what every single player eats , drinks , ingests is extremely carefully controlled & designed individually for that player. Think “ Hello Fresh “ on steroids. I actually asked the question about what their families ate and the response was “ we work with each player , their wives ( girlfriends etc etc ) to ensure the player sticks rigidly to “ the plan “.

It’s hard to describe to anyone who hasn’t seen it but I’d suggest they spend tens of millions on their system , staff , facilities etc etc.

By comparison I bet Manly spend not a cent more than what’s allocated to them by the NRL, meaning their rehab set up ( using this as an example ) might have 2-3 staff , and you can bet they’ll have a sports nutritionist as well , but it would be A sports nutritionist not a team of 15.

It always annoys me on Silvertails when we get compared to the top ( rich) clubs because my view there’s just no comparison.

God love the Penn’s ( because without them we mightn’t even have a club ) but it’s very clear to me that if,

1) the salary cap is 13 million , we spend 13 million and maybe a little extra with third party sponsors.
2) if the football department cap is 5 million , we spend 5 million and not a cent more.

We will always be a middle of the road club ( sadly ) , and have been since the Penns took over 100% control.

Until we magically find a very rich benefactor who for the fun of it wants to throw 20 million a year extra into the club we will always run where we run.

Hey Mark, do you know where my Club/Brookie membership money and the gate takings for non members goes?

 

[Jethro]

The 1997 Sea Eagles made a grand final in a season where they lost 41 (7 tries) to 8 vs Norths.

Factor in how the NRL in 2025 is a 2x or 3x higher points scoring league than footy in 1997.

A 50 point loss in 2025 is a 30 point loss 20 years ago. A 48-24 is more like 36-18 in 1990s or 20-5 in the 1970s.

Blaming the coach or players effort or attitude is trite or unfair when then the NRL has made the game such that one team can have possession of the ball for 10 minutes straight compounded with all the biases that are given to favour the team with the ball.

Manly were made be the Washington Generals and there's not much you can do to stop it.

Fans will stop going to games if the NRL doesn't wake up. Too many blowouts and lack of contests. Imagine if every boxing bout was won in the first 3 rounds. No one would pay to watch.

I am sorry but your score comparisons over time is not quite right.

Prior to 1971,

• a try was worth 3 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 2 points.

From 1971 to 1982,

• a try was worth 3 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 1 point.

From 1983 to 2020,

• a try was worth 4 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 1 point.

From 2021 to present,

• a try Is worth 4 points,
• a conversion Is worth 2 points,
• a penalty Is worth 2 points, and
• and a field goal Is worth 1 point or 2 points if kicked from more than 40m out.

If we are talking about only converted tries, then a 48-24 scoreline now would have been the same as it would have back in 1983. Prior to 1983, the scoreline would have been 40-20.

The only thing that I can see for the massive score blowouts nowadays is because of the Set Restarts that are called on the whim (or possible bias) of the referee.

A Set Restart called around the first tackle doesn't mean that much, but if they call (or constantly call) a '6 again' around the 5th tackle, and especially around the defending team's try-line that they are trying to defend, it could create a huge difference.

Repeated Set Restarts over short periods of time, against a side late in the tackle count, causes massive fatigue, which in turn, causes errors, which in turn may cause more Set Restarts, and the cycle continues and the result is that we have the immense score blowouts that we keep seeing.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Hey Mark, do you know where my Club/Brookie membership money and the gate takings for non members goes?

Definitely goes to the Penn’s , but let’s not forget they have to hire the ground , pay for maintenance, security etc etc.

There’s no doubt with all these full houses they’d be making money , but over the last decade there’s plenty of games they have made losses in.

For them it a business , and perhaps a small passion.

For people like Politis / Laundry it is ALL about a passion , regardless of cost.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I am sorry but your score comparisons over time is not quite right.

Prior to 1971,

• a try was worth 3 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 2 points.

From 1971 to 1982,

• a try was worth 3 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 1 point.

From 1983 to 2020,

• a try was worth 4 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 1 point.

From 2021 to present,

• a try was worth 4 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• and a field goal was worth 1 point or 2 points if kicked from more than 40m out.

If we are talking about only converted tries, then a 48-24 scoreline now would have been the same as it would have back in 1983. Prior to 1983, the scoreline would have been 40-20.

The only thing that I can see for the massive score blowouts nowadays is because of the set restarts that are called on the whim (or possible bias) of the referee.

A Set Restart called around the first tackle doesn't mean that much, but if they call (or constantly call) a '6 again' around the 5th tackle, and especially around the defending team's try-line that they are trying to defend, it could create a huge difference.

Repeated Set Restarts over short periods of time, against a side late in the tackle count, causes massive fatigue, which in turn, causes errors, which in turn may cause more Set Restarts, and the cycle continues and the result is that we have the immense score blowouts that we keep seeing.

If you watch a replay , watch the set restarts and when they were given ( in relation to the 3 try’s in the first half & then the 3 try’s in the second half ).

Your last paragraph is so important.

Not only were we facing a red hot team , the six agains absolutely creamed us.

 

[Once Was Brissie Kid]

I am sorry but your score comparisons over time is not quite right.

Prior to 1971,

• a try was worth 3 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 2 points.

From 1971 to 1982,

• a try was worth 3 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 1 point.

From 1983 to 2020,

• a try was worth 4 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• a field goal was worth 1 point.

From 2021 to present,

• a try was worth 4 points,
• a conversion was worth 2 points,
• a penalty was worth 2 points, and
• and a field goal was worth 1 point or 2 points if kicked from more than 40m out.

If we are talking about only converted tries, then a 48-24 scoreline now would have been the same as it would have back in 1983. Prior to 1983, the scoreline would have been 40-20.

The only thing that I can see for the massive score blowouts nowadays is because of the Set Restarts that are called on the whim (or possible bias) of the referee.

A Set Restart called around the first tackle doesn't mean that much, but if they call (or constantly call) a '6 again' around the 5th tackle, and especially around the defending team's try-line that they are trying to defend, it could create a huge difference.

Repeated Set Restarts over short periods of time, against a side late in the tackle count, causes massive fatigue, which in turn, causes errors, which in turn may cause more Set Restarts, and the cycle continues and the result is that we have the immense score blowouts that we keep seeing.

Fair enough. I was clumsily trying to say there's more tries being scored now. Sixty points a game whether 50-10 or 32-28 is not rugby league. It is some other junk football code. It is bordering on AFL.

 

[Jethro]

Fair enough. I was clumsily trying to say there's more tries being scored now. Sixty points a game whether 50-10 or 32-28 is not rugby league. It is some other junk football code. It is bordering on AFL.

Yep, I hear what you are saying, but in my opinion, the more tries are coming off the back of fatigued opposition who have been copping a hammering from the referee with numerous Set Restarts late in the tackle count.

Back in the day, the only way that teams used to get fatigued was because there was no interchange bench. The game was played only with the 13 players on the field. There were only two players, who had played at least half a game in the lower grades, who could sit on the bench as replacements for injured players, and those injured players, once replaced, could not return to the field of play. Those days are when your halves and backs could run riot over tired opposition forwards.

 

[HoldenV8]

Not too sure how good or not Dymock is but biggest problem defensively at present , just don 't have the cattle in certain positions to cope when under sustained pressure or minimizing bad reads .
As long as Arthur senior would not destabilise the joint to any extent , maybe not the worst option out there to improve some aspects of the defence in the future

Its also not having the right players in the right positions.

• Neither of our centres, are actually centres IMO, both are more suited to the wing. But with Saab on one flank, one will remain a centre at the very least (but we know both will.....)
• Jazz Tevaga is not a hooker / dummy half. I can name no other club in the NRL or even the ESL who would be starting him at hooker......
• With Paseka and Aloiai out and no Lodge until after Round 11, Jake Trbojevic should be in the front row rotation and not at lock. I'd either play Burbo at lock and bring Bully into the back row, or even take a punt and play Jake Arthur in the No.13 jumper. Arthur would add a third playmaking and kicking element to the side.

These are just my opinions though.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Having seen this first hand ( in my previous work life ) the Storms Melbourne HQ and their “ system” need to be seen to be believed.

Their owners , backers , spend far more than any other club on every single thing you can imagine to achieve almost perfection.

Much is attributed to Bellamy , and fair enough , but the system that club have built since its inception is second to none & I have little doubt when Bellyache eventually retires it will continue unabated regardless of who takes over.

They employ the very best of people in every role , and there’s a team for every role.

I got a look at two of their areas , sports nutrition and their rehabilitation set up.

I know we’ve sent Tom to Philadelphia ( and the Storm sent Papy there too ) but their rehab system is to be seen to be believed , there’s probably 30 people involved in just that one section and with the very top knee , shoulder , wrist , elbow etc etc specialists at their beck & call , it’s a whole football department within a football department.

We had a presentation from a sports nutrition expert , there’s about 15 in that team, what every single player eats , drinks , ingests is extremely carefully controlled & designed individually for that player. Think “ Hello Fresh “ on steroids. I actually asked the question about what their families ate and the response was “ we work with each player , their wives ( girlfriends etc etc ) to ensure the player sticks rigidly to “ the plan “.

It’s hard to describe to anyone who hasn’t seen it but I’d suggest they spend tens of millions on their system , staff , facilities etc etc.

By comparison I bet Manly spend not a cent more than what’s allocated to them by the NRL, meaning their rehab set up ( using this as an example ) might have 2-3 staff , and you can bet they’ll have a sports nutritionist as well , but it would be A sports nutritionist not a team of 15.

It always annoys me on Silvertails when we get compared to the top ( rich) clubs because my view there’s just no comparison.

God love the Penn’s ( because without them we mightn’t even have a club ) but it’s very clear to me that if,

1) the salary cap is 13 million , we spend 13 million and maybe a little extra with third party sponsors.
2) if the football department cap is 5 million , we spend 5 million and not a cent more.

We will always be a middle of the road club ( sadly ) , and have been since the Penns took over 100% control.

Until we magically find a very rich benefactor who for the fun of it wants to throw 20 million a year extra into the club we will always run where we run.

You've posted this info in the past but well worth repeating as not everyone knows this.
NRL is not a level playing field, money talks.
I'm only on the outside looking in but I do wonder at times why Manly doesn't have more big money backers. Our area, the northern beaches of Sydney, is one of the most affluent in the country.
I've assumed one reason may simply be that the Penns aren't keen to share the glory (?)

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

You've posted this info in the past but well worth repeating as not everyone knows this.
NRL is not a level playing field, money talks.
I'm only on the outside looking in but I do wonder at times why Manly doesn't have more big money backers. Our area, the northern beaches of Sydney, is one of the most affluent in the country.
I've assumed one reason may simply be that the Penns aren't keen to share the glory (?)

Yes I have posted it but no not everyone has seen it.

I think it’s important for forum members to be aware that’s it’s not a completely level playing field.

We know the obvious “ sombrero boys “ one but I’m not sure people are aware of what a serious set up the Melbourne Storm really is.

Most will say “ it’s because Bellamy is a SuperCoach” and yes he’s good but he didn’t get NSW to win so he’s certainly not super, but what is super is their system.

It’s why they are top 4 year after year after year after year !!

 

[LeonardCohen]

100% agree, also agree with Jethro above, but lean towards he needs replacing.

I was watching him yesterday in the pre game, at one point he was playing soccer with the footy while the boys were warming up on the pads, the overall look was one of disinterest and unprofessionalism, even his personal appearance and how he looks after himself made me question his worth and that’s all before you asses his defensive structures, the teams mindset and his performance, it’s just not good enough on so many levels and the teams performance in part is a reflection of that, sadly the quality of the current coaching staff leaves plenty to be desired.

Yes, and Steve Hales is no different. Poor physical condition around an elite sporting organisation is never a good look. How do you drive standards when you don’t appear to have any of your own?

I remember reading Wayne Bennett would bench press in the gym. We all know about Dessie’s legendary fitness.

I’m not suggesting these guys need to be elite athletes themselves but if I was a budding FG coach, I would do everything in my power to ensure the optics are where they need to be. Getting physically fit is within the realms of control.

 

[Thewestisbest]

It seems quite obvious.

The Sea Eagles have a top 4 level set of players in their team. They should be contesting against the top sides. But they haven't been for a long while and the addition of Seibold doesn't seem to have changed that.

It's been said over and again on this site that Manly's defense is just not up to what's needed. Seibs has had long enough to correct this obvious flaw in the Manly side. Blaming Turbo's absent just doesn't cut it. The team is not operating like a team in defense. Some excellent attacking players, but consistently let down by defensive flaws.

Seibs MUST get a top aggressive defensive coach in his squad. Someone who knows how to play it tough. A Randall, Gillespie type. And a decent forward leader in the middle who demands respect. Even Menzies was an excellent defender (not often recognised).

This side has the potential to challenge for the crown. There's some damn good layers out there but they're let down by lack of defensive commitment. They will be also rans again around 6-8 if they don't turn this problem around asap.

A Randall, Gillespie type won't necessarily equate to better defensive structure. It might teach some of them how to tackle better. They need someone who can formulate a working system that gets them all operating as one in defence. It has been an ongoing issue that requires immediate attention from a dedicated coach.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Thank you for your reply
This is what I meant feathered friend

All clubs go through a Declining stage and a Rebuilding stage
All clubs start Recruiting towards Rebuilding
Some clubs Recruit Mediocre People and Some Winning People
Recruiting Winners is the Winning Way
No club has Risen to Great heights with Mediocre People

Every club makes it own bed
Its own Mess or Success
and Lies on it
NO EXCUSES

So when will Penn open up his wallet and invest what’s necessary to rebuild your boyhood dreams?

 

[Brookie1973]

Yes I have posted it but no not everyone has seen it.

I think it’s important for forum members to be aware that’s it’s not a completely level playing field.

We know the obvious “ sombrero boys “ one but I’m not sure people are aware of what a serious set up the Melbourne Storm really is.

Most will say “ it’s because Bellamy is a SuperCoach” and yes he’s good but he didn’t get NSW to win so he’s certainly not super, but what is super is their system.

It’s why they are top 4 year after year after year after year !!

You’d have to be pretty naive to think the NRL is a completely level playing field. In fact, there would be very few major sports in the world which aren’t dominated to varying degrees by certain teams/organisations. That’s life. All this “poor us” complaining ignores the fact that we were one of the dominant sides from 2007-2014, with basically the same relative financial clout compared to the melbournes/brisbanes/roosters/bulldogs of the world. I appreciate that penn was a co-owner back then, but I don’t recall hearing how the other co-owner was tipping in a motza to compensate for penns thriftiness. I’m pretty sure the Storms nutrition budget outweighed ours back then too. So how did we compete back then but not now? I believe the answer is more to do with club DNA than financials.

 

[madmax]

Its also not having the right players in the right positions.

• Neither of our centres, are actually centres IMO, both are more suited to the wing. But with Saab on one flank, one will remain a centre at the very least (but we know both will.....)
• Jazz Tevaga is not a hooker / dummy half. I can name no other club in the NRL or even the ESL who would be starting him at hooker......
• With Paseka and Aloiai out and no Lodge until after Round 11, Jake Trbojevic should be in the front row rotation and not at lock. I'd either play Burbo at lock and bring Bully into the back row, or even take a punt and play Jake Arthur in the No.13 jumper. Arthur would add a third playmaking and kicking element to the side.

These are just my opinions though.

Hey mate….disagree with your first point. Garrick & Koula are more than an adequate Centre pairing.
Agree with your second point. Simpkin should play the full 80 as do a number of other Hookers.
Jrbo is not a Lock! He’s too slow for the position. He should be in the Prop rotation. I’ve suggested many times that Brbo should be given a go at Lock. Bully to start 2nd row with Olakau’atu.
Injury free I’d love to see…..,.
Trbo
Saab
Garrick
Koula
Lehi
Brooks
DCE
Paseka
Simpkin
Jrbo
Olakau’atu
Bully
Brbo
Res: Talau, Aloiai, TKO, Brown
(Sipley, Croker, Patolo, Navale, Jazz)