Salary Cap

[ManlyArmy]

Mate your making up numbers. But I’ll play your game..
Schuster gets his 5/8th role already on a current contract so zero out of that.
I’d have a huge crack at Lam from the Roosters
Probably get him for 200-300k MAX. 2011 Des proved he can take a rookie half to a premiership.
That leaves 500k in your book.
I’d probably go after Addo Carr to add speed. 500k also covers Turbo.
Add to that that we have the $850k from AFB, I’d get 2 edge backrowers for that. Say Garner and young Sironen. Now our side starts to look balanced.
1. Turbo
2.Ado Car
3. Walker
4.suli/funa/Harper
5. Garrick/funa/Hoppa
6.Shuster
7.Lam
8. Taupau
9. Fainu ( hopefully)
10.paseka
11. B Sironen
12. C Sironen
13. Jake

14.Garner
15. Gosiewski
16. Keppie
17. Cust/ another cheap hooker

Making the numbers up just like you believe Lam is a good replacement for DCE?

Lam definitely hasn't impressed me when he's coming in to the side surrounded by star studded players.... what's he going to do if Turbo gets injured again and Fainu doesn't come back/

 

[hozza]

Yeahhhh....
Crighton is overpriced at the moment, won’t get near his current contract.
Addo won’t go for over 500k, well unless your signing players..

Tigers have offered 800k apparently to play fb

Really?

If he gets that good luck to him, but there paying overs. Not a genuine fb either.

Well we put 400/500k towards someone else. You get my point, doesn’t have to be ado car..

 

[ManlyArmy]

You forgot 2 vital stats that a $1.25M premier playmaker MUST provide for a team to be successful.

Kicks from tries - Manly - LAST in NRL
Goal line dropout repeat sets - Manly - LAST in NRL

I agree about the repeat sets part but not necessarily with the kicks from tries stats as you'd normally have more success off attacking kicks when you have a consistent back line line up each week, which we have not.

Being 2nd in try assists but lacking in tries off kicks probably cancels each other out, especially when we've had 4 different halves partners for DCE this season in 19 games.

 

[hozza]

Making the numbers up just like you believe Lam is a good replacement for DCE?

Lam definitely hasn't impressed me when he's coming in to the side surrounded by star studded players.... what's he going to do if Turbo gets injured again and Fainu doesn't come back/

No, he will be a better replacement than Dce. And represent better value for the simple fact that we can purchase/retain better players across the WHOLE team.

 

[ManlyArmy]

No, he will be a better replacement than Dce. And represent better value for the simple fact that we can purchase/retain better players across the WHOLE team.

So we've already got Tommy, Schuster and Fainu locked in even with DCE, who are all spine players and have huge affects on how we play.

If we then get rid of DCE and sign Lam, we still have the same other 3 spine players. Upgrading other positions will have minimal effect on the performance of the team, especially in attack.

The much better option is to keep DCE, and groom another halfback through our great pathways system and use him as a 14 in coming seasons ready for when DCE retires at the end of 2023-24, that way he is already in our system and can slot straight in.

The last thing we need right now is to be changing halfbacks, when our halfback has been the only spine player that has played all season.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I said in another thread that I will have a break from silvertails and i'll stick by that, but as we are very much on the annual dce bashing thread today and i've been a little keyboard warrior I will have my last say and leave it at that.

We can't be complacent and keep defending dce anymore. Premiership winner in 2011, nine years ago. Rather than get better with age he has steadily deteriorated since 2014 w/o senior playing group guiding him and organising us, yet occupies the highest contract in nrl history. For about half a decade now he has declined. It worries me that we continue to invest in him.
Everyone jumps to defend dce.

People instantly name drop that he is qld captain, club captain, premiership winner and Australian halfback.

- Yet, he is outplayed by opposition halves almost every week now​

- Outplayed by fogarty and taylor last week. And of late off the top of my head - adam reynolds, jahrome hughes, nathan cleary, Harris-Tevita, Benji Marshall/Brooks, shaun johnson, even the dragons halves incl. Norman (!) have completely outplayed dce this season​

As for Qld captain

- This qld team is probably the worst in the last decade​

- A half/captain for origin/tests plays a less significant role than in an nrl team​

- Few players that have shown any leadership material (eg. only Munster + Papalii)​

- He got completely dropped when the smith, cronk, thurston and slater crew were all there​

- Since becoming captain and whenever dce starts at 7 they've barely had success, have been more disjointed and less resilient​

As for australian halfback

- Should be 4th in the running this season (Keary, Cleary, Wighton well ahead of him)​

- Probably 80% of that has to do with reputation and the complacency of the selectors​

As for club captain

- No sacrifice for the team like all our past captain [no genuine respectability]​

- Other than effort, doesn't lead by example or 'take the reins' as such.​

​

Im out. Will no doubt resurface once we make a big signing hopefully! Reality is that dce won't ever leave. We are stuck with his reputation no matter how well or how poorly he plays and there is nothing I or anyone can do about it unless we hold him accountable for around 4 years of poor and/or inconsistent and deteriorating quality in the past 6 or so seasons.

​

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I said in another thread that I will have a break from silvertails and i'll stick by that, but as we are very much on the annual dce bashing thread today and i've been a little keyboard warrior I will have my last say and leave it at that.

We can't be complacent and keep defending dce anymore. Premiership winner in 2011, nine years ago. Rather than get better with age he has steadily deteriorated since 2014 w/o senior playing group guiding him and organising us, yet occupies the highest contract in nrl history. For about half a decade now he has declined. It worries me that we continue to invest in him.
Everyone jumps to defend dce.

People instantly name drop that he is qld captain, club captain, premiership winner and Australian halfback.

- Yet, he is outplayed by opposition halves almost every week now​

- Outplayed by fogarty and taylor last week. And of late off the top of my head - adam reynolds, jahrome hughes, nathan cleary, Harris-Tevita, Benji Marshall/Brooks, shaun johnson, even the dragons halves incl. Norman (!) have completely outplayed dce this season​

As for Qld captain

- This qld team is probably the worst in the last decade​

- A half/captain for origin/tests plays a less significant role than in an nrl team​

- Few players that have shown any leadership material (eg. only Munster + Papalii)​

- He got completely dropped when the smith, cronk, thurston and slater crew were all there​

- Since becoming captain and whenever dce starts at 7 they've barely had success, have been more disjointed and less resilient​

As for australian halfback

- Should be 4th in the running this season (Keary, Cleary, Wighton well ahead of him)​

- Probably 80% of that has to do with reputation and the complacency of the selectors​

As for club captain

- No sacrifice for the team like all our past captain [no genuine respectability]​

- Other than effort, doesn't lead by example or 'take the reins' as such.​

​

Just because we disagree with you occasionally Harry it doesn’t mean you have to go.

remember it’s a forum , everyone has different views.

 

[ManlyArmy]

I said in another thread that I will have a break from silvertails and i'll stick by that, but as we are very much on the annual dce bashing thread today and i've been a little keyboard warrior I will have my last say and leave it at that.

We can't be complacent and keep defending dce anymore. Premiership winner in 2011, nine years ago. Rather than get better with age he has steadily deteriorated since 2014 w/o senior playing group guiding him and organising us, yet occupies the highest contract in nrl history. For about half a decade now he has declined. It worries me that we continue to invest in him.
Everyone jumps to defend dce.

People instantly name drop that he is qld captain, club captain, premiership winner and Australian halfback.

- Yet, he is outplayed by opposition halves almost every week now​

- Outplayed by fogarty and taylor last week. And of late off the top of my head - adam reynolds, jahrome hughes, nathan cleary, Harris-Tevita, Benji Marshall/Brooks, shaun johnson, even the dragons halves incl. Norman (!) have completely outplayed dce this season​

As for Qld captain

- This qld team is probably the worst in the last decade​

- A half/captain for origin/tests plays a less significant role than in an nrl team​

- Few players that have shown any leadership material (eg. only Munster + Papalii)​

- He got completely dropped when the smith, cronk, thurston and slater crew were all there​

- Since becoming captain and whenever dce starts at 7 they've barely had success, have been more disjointed and less resilient​

As for australian halfback

- Should be 4th in the running this season (Keary, Cleary, Wighton well ahead of him)​

- Probably 80% of that has to do with reputation and the complacency of the selectors​

As for club captain

- No sacrifice for the team like all our past captain [no genuine respectability]​

- Other than effort, doesn't lead by example or 'take the reins' as such.​

​

In regards to him being outplayed, I see that you've noted both halfback and 5/8 in some comparisons.... seemed to go alright last year when he had a consistent halves partner.

For the no sacrifice comment, is that in regards to putting his body on the line? If so, I wouldn't want my halfback busting and getting himself bashed week in week out as much with 3/4 of the spine out, because if you think we're bad now, we're farked if DCE goes down too.

 

[hozza]

So we've already got Tommy, Schuster and Fainu locked in even with DCE, who are all spine players and have huge affects on how we play.

If we then get rid of DCE and sign Lam, we still have the same other 3 spine players. Upgrading other positions will have minimal effect on the performance of the team, especially in attack.

The much better option is to keep DCE, and groom another halfback through our great pathways system and use him as a 14 in coming seasons ready for when DCE retires at the end of 2023-24, that way he is already in our system and can slot straight in.

The last thing we need right now is to be changing halfbacks, when our halfback has been the only spine player that has played all season.

Ahhh no.

1/6/7/9 are not the only positions in a team. We need balance across the board. Look at our 13 from one of our most successful eras- 08-13 we had 2 of the most respected backrowers in the comp- Glen Stewart and Anthony watmough. Ad in our Great captain Lyon, a centre. What about our prop? Kite or Kingy. How about Matai? We had such a great side because we DIDNT overpay players..

Back further Menzies, you may of heard of him..
Mark Carrol, Fatty, Bozo...
I think you get my drift..

 

[davohan123]

Just because we disagree with you occasionally Harry it doesn’t mean you have to go.

remember it’s a forum , everyone has different views.

And that's what I love about this place people having differing views yet being able to express them freely unlike society today when we are futher being split down the middle.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

And that's what I love about this place people having differing views yet being able to express them freely unlike society today when we are futher being split down the middle.

You have to take this place with a grain of salt , we are ALL very VERY passionate fans otherwise we’d have switched off already.

Differing opinions are fine, personal attacks aren’t!!

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Just because we disagree with you occasionally Harry it doesn’t mean you have to go.

remember it’s a forum , everyone has different views.

I just meant that I am leaving for a bit to get refreshed from this **** season and come back later. I don't care that people have different views, that's not what I was meant to say. But I do think people tend to be blinded when they talk about dce and whatever I say merges into a big block of text. Rather than at least consider anything on dce people seem to be instantly offended that I said anything bad about our golden boy who has done nothing wrong and never will. I reckon that in ten years a lot of people will feel a lot more hard done by dce than they are now, even if the club is equally at fault for entering a bidding war for him and falling on their knees.

 

[hozza]

I said in another thread that I will have a break from silvertails and i'll stick by that, but as we are very much on the annual dce bashing thread today and i've been a little keyboard warrior I will have my last say and leave it at that.

We can't be complacent and keep defending dce anymore. Premiership winner in 2011, nine years ago. Rather than get better with age he has steadily deteriorated since 2014 w/o senior playing group guiding him and organising us, yet occupies the highest contract in nrl history. For about half a decade now he has declined. It worries me that we continue to invest in him.
Everyone jumps to defend dce.

People instantly name drop that he is qld captain, club captain, premiership winner and Australian halfback.

- Yet, he is outplayed by opposition halves almost every week now​

- Outplayed by fogarty and taylor last week. And of late off the top of my head - adam reynolds, jahrome hughes, nathan cleary, Harris-Tevita, Benji Marshall/Brooks, shaun johnson, even the dragons halves incl. Norman (!) have completely outplayed dce this season​

As for Qld captain

- This qld team is probably the worst in the last decade​

- A half/captain for origin/tests plays a less significant role than in an nrl team​

- Few players that have shown any leadership material (eg. only Munster + Papalii)​

- He got completely dropped when the smith, cronk, thurston and slater crew were all there​

- Since becoming captain and whenever dce starts at 7 they've barely had success, have been more disjointed and less resilient​

As for australian halfback

- Should be 4th in the running this season (Keary, Cleary, Wighton well ahead of him)​

- Probably 80% of that has to do with reputation and the complacency of the selectors​

As for club captain

- No sacrifice for the team like all our past captain [no genuine respectability]​

- Other than effort, doesn't lead by example or 'take the reins' as such.​

​

Im out. Will no doubt resurface once we make a big signing hopefully! Reality is that dce won't ever leave. We are stuck with his reputation no matter how well or how poorly he plays and there is nothing I or anyone can do about it unless we hold him accountable for around 4 years of poor and/or inconsistent and deteriorating quality in the past 6 or so seasons.

​

Agree with everything you said young Harry. Well except for you leaving.just take a few days off mate and come back.

Just remember we are all passionate manly supporters and that means occasionally we are robust in our arguments. But in the end we all respect each other and are all part of the Manly family..

 

[ManlyArmy]

Ahhh no.

1/6/7/9 are not the only positions in a team. We need balance across the board. Look at our 13 from one of our most successful eras- 08-13 we had 2 of the most respected backrowers in the comp- Glen Stewart and Anthony Watmouth. Ad in our Great captain Lyon, a centre. What about our prop? Kite or Kingy. How about Matai? We had such a great side because we DIDNT overpay players..

Back further Menzies, you may of heard of him..
Mark Carrol, Fatty, Bozo...
I think you get my drift..

Wow, there was a salary cap when Bozo and Fatty were around?

I get what you mean, but comparing players from nearly a decade ago or more is pointless as the cap has now changed in the way players sign. It's now more of a business.

Just because we signed players a little different back over the past few decades, does definitely not mean the same will work in the current system.

Look at Penrith now for example, are they going to prioritise re-signing their 1,6,7 & 9, or their forwards who they can probably easily replace more than their spine.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I just meant that I am leaving for a bit to get refreshed from this **** season and come back later. I don't care that people have different views, that's not what I was meant to say. But I do think people tend to be blinded when they talk about dce and whatever I say merges into a big block of text. Rather than at least consider anything on dce people seem to be instantly offended that I said anything bad about our golden boy who has done nothing wrong and never will. I reckon that in ten years a lot of people will feel a lot more hard done by dce than they are now, even if the club is equally at fault for entering a bidding war for him and falling on their knees.

Agree with @hozza take a few days off and come back , you are as passionate as the rest of us and it’s good to have you onboard.

 

[Supreme Leader]

Until our roster is managed properly we are going to struggle year in year out. We have 3 players on 3mil +, which is just ridiculous!
We have a 1.3 mil halfback dud
1 mil fullback who can’t finish a season
And a 800k lock who is full of heart but not a game breaker. It’s just way too unbalanced.

We 100% need to shift Dce. He is not a leader, struggles to manage a game and is quite simply a player who divides opinion. Just look at this forum, you are either in the for Dce camp or against Dce camp. I’m guessing the playing group is no different. And that is the exact opposite of what a captain should be.

Think of our last premiership captain J Lyon. I’m pretty sure the players in that side ALL loved him and were willing to bleed for him. Toovey, If you said a bad word about him around M Carrol he’d fuk you up, and that’s 20yrs on. That’s a captain..

Absolutely zero point in purging players that aren’t even first graders, to only bring in players that aren’t first graders.. get rid of Dce and we open up 1.3 mil per season! That’s huge, it brings balance. We could sign 3 quality players for that..

Angus Crighton $500k
Addo Carr $400k
Decent hooker 400k or a young half. These players are just an example..

Or insert players here.

Hey Hozza, out of curtesy to you I rang the great one J Lyons and asked for his opinion on your comment - his response was - hmmmm his (DCE) heart is there, he bleeds for the club, and given the injuries and "other issues" with the spine, we really need to pull our heads in. If the team was intact, not injured or otherwise excluded, then your argument would be more real.

He said we would have upset a few teams in the finals given injury free.

BTW he has a look at this site occasionally and has giggle. He reckons we are funny?

So Hozza thanks for prompting me to give him a tingle - it was great, actually prompted me to ring the Wombat straight afterwards to see how his going, struggling a bit but active again.

I'm thinking us Silvertails should do something special post corona at Brookie for the great one!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Hey Hozza, out of curtesy to you I rang the great one J Lyons and asked for his opinion on your comment - his response was - hmmmm his (DCE) heart is there, he bleeds for the club, and given the injuries and "other issues" with the spine, we really need to pull our heads in. If the team was intact, not injured or otherwise excluded, then your argument would be more real.

He said we would have upset a few teams in the finals given injury free.

BTW he has a look at this site occasionally and has giggle. He reckons we are funny?

So Hozza thanks for prompting me to give him a tingle - it was great, actually prompted me to ring the Wombat straight afterwards to see how his going, struggling a bit but active again.

I'm thinking us Silvertails should do something special post corona at Brookie for the great one!

When I was more closely associated with the club I asked the player group did they read Silvertails, I was surprised to hear they did.

Not sure if it’s still the case though.

 

[hozza]

Wow, there was a salary cap when Bozo and Fatty were around?

I get what you mean, but comparing players from nearly a decade ago or more is pointless as the cap has now changed in the way players sign. It's now more of a business.

Just because we signed players a little different back over the past few decades, does definitely not mean the same will work in the current system.

Look at Penrith now for example, are they going to prioritise re-signing their 1,6,7 & 9, or their forwards who they can probably easily replace more than their spine.

@ManlyArmy Penrith are one of the most balanced teams in the comp!! 1-13 are all very solid. And young Cleary is having a career year..

 

[ManlyArmy]

@ManlyArmy Penrith are one of the most balanced teams in the comp!! 1-13 are all very solid. And young Cleary is having a career year..

They're balanced now because this is a breakout season for the whole team. Apart from Cleary, barely any of them are representative players.

They won't be as balanced once it's time for Cleary, Luai, Kikau, Crichton, Edwards etc are ready to re-sign. They will most likely lose at least 1 of them, possibly 2.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I just meant that I am leaving for a bit to get refreshed from this **** season and come back later. I don't care that people have different views, that's not what I was meant to say. But I do think people tend to be blinded when they talk about dce and whatever I say merges into a big block of text. Rather than at least consider anything on dce people seem to be instantly offended that I said anything bad about our golden boy who has done nothing wrong and never will. I reckon that in ten years a lot of people will feel a lot more hard done by dce than they are now, even if the club is equally at fault for entering a bidding war for him and falling on their knees.

There's a constant stream of DCE apologists that won't accept any thought that he may not in fact be the best player in the comp. He's not even playing like the best half in the comp at the moment, but they'll keep shouting you down with the excuses.

What I keep thinking about is what has he achieved since he backflipped and signed his lifetime deal ??. No premierships, no Dally M awards, not even a halfback of the year. Sure he managed to outlast Cronk and Thurston and get a Maroon jersey, but has he dominated at that level ?? I don't see a player that has improved. He looked great up to 2015 when he had arguably one of the greatest Manly sides ever around him, since that imploded he hasn't consistently looked any where near that player. I don't know that the circumstances will ever exist again where we have a side like that for him to shine to that level - not when he takes up such a significant portion of the cap. I think Tommy at full fitness can maybe get him part the way there.... here's hoping anyway.