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Saab

Mataiforerver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
860
There really isn't a large enough difference(in general) between players in the outside backs to warrant tailoring a defensive structure based around the differences in players abilities and size. On top of that unlike most other sports where one on one defence is more noticeable(and your positive and negative attributes better highlighted) with League it is more working as a unit and numbers in a tackle.

I don't mind spacing changes for different teams, or even for slower players to not allow too much space on their outside to cover but you don't want structure changes all the time based on opposition teams and players in your own line up that could change through injuries and suspensions.
this bloke could be Des on anonymous on a keyboard
 

Oliver

Silvertails' Premier Sh*tposter
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
Messages
495
hit a fair few first year. also hit a fair few when wolfman was out there... but agreed needs to take the bomb option. its tough when youve had jorge on one wing since 2012 who hasnt been able to catch & compete in the air since 2015
Don't get me wrong Jorge is well past it by today's standards however, he's actually been pretty solid under the highball for the last couple of seasons. It's his turn and chase for those grubbers in behind the line to the corner that kill us, the bloke has no power steering.

Full credit to him, he's been a great servant and deserves full respect for his dedication to the team but his ability to adapt to the modern winger role hasn't worked out and his body is breaking down.
 

The Who

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
12,452
Souffs, who have the best backline in the NRL -- especially when you consider they are currently without Latrine, The Jet and Braidon Burns -- apparently still have sufficient money under the salary cap to chase Addo-Carr! This is, of course, after they retained Johnson. Strange, I thought their salary cap was squeezing Johnson out of the club....

The Rabbitohs are now likely to use the money set aside for Suaalii to have a crack at Storm superstar Josh Addo-Carr.

And yet we don't seem to be able to attract Saab. What chance to do we have to be competitive in 2021?
 

Mataiforerver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
860
Don't get me wrong Jorge is well past it by today's standards however, he's actually been pretty solid under the highball for the last couple of seasons. It's his turn and chase for those grubbers in behind the line to the corner that kill us, the bloke has no power steering.

Full credit to him, he's been a great servant and deserves full respect for his dedication to the team but his ability to adapt to the modern winger role hasn't worked out and his body is breaking down.
Agreed but he has never been a threat... when your talking about kicking in attack being โ€œsolid under the high ballโ€ in defense is completely irrelevant - DCE has never thought โ€œlets kick to Jorge on the lastโ€ and for good reason.
 

AASeaEagles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
261
Slide defence should only be used when the up and in can't snuff out the play in time or overly stretched for numbers and trying to hold off decision making. If the slide becomes the permanent style too many metres will be gained off each set.(in a general go forward set)

In the red zone the risk is your defence keeps backing off and doesn't commit to the tackle until they are basically falling over the tryline themselves, also straight running between the slide defenders can lead to very weak arm grabbing tackles that are easily sliced through.(go back to i think 1996 at Brookie against the Roosters for an example---- Fittler tearing apart our defensive line with some beautiful flat passes to straight runners in the first half)

In saying that most teams use a variety of defensive styles dependent on the situation and field position, it is not like the slide can't co-exist with the up and in.

I don't really pay as much attention to defensive structures as i do attack but i do recall Manly's numbering scheme in the past allowed more space between defenders and requiring a "1/2" defender to make spur of the moment decisions. This can lead to one side appearing outnumbered(technically not outnumbered just more space between defenders), but if you get it right you snuff out a lot of plays really early before they unfold to something dangerous. For example instead of a traditional 60/40 split you are really a 55/45 in some instances.

I would prefer coaches analyze the passing strengths and weaknesses of teams and have defensive numbers and spacing that reflect the strength and weaknesses of how efficiently a team passes or moves the ball across the field. Another more simple option is to work on just flooding the 10mtrs either side of the ball carrier with numbers---similar to how St George did so well earlier this decade under Bennett and Manly struggled to score points against the Dragons during this period.

At the moment i think our defensive structures are too confusing for a team that lacks stability or is having a major run on injuries----but i guess if you have a philosophy you stick with it through all grades and circumstances so everyone knows their job.

I think the modern games high skill level from passing to pin point attacking kicks to more technically correct and varied running lines can really expose the space behind and around the up and in more efficiently compared to a decade or so ago. Faster play the balls and less latitude allowed in slowing down the ruck is also going to make it harder for an overly aggressive up and in to make the right decisions also.
You can't employ a slide defence as a structure "if up and in doesn't snuff out the play" - by then it's too late and you've been beat. It's common sense that the team scrambles to cover, especially the fullback.

The red zone is entirely different, but having a readily trained slide defence is crucial. And no, too many metres are not lost if line speed is what it should be
 

AASeaEagles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
261
There really isn't a large enough difference(in general) between players in the outside backs to warrant tailoring a defensive structure based around the differences in players abilities and size. On top of that unlike most other sports where one on one defence is more noticeable(and your positive and negative attributes better highlighted) with League it is more working as a unit and numbers in a tackle.

I don't mind spacing changes for different teams, or even for slower players to not allow too much space on their outside to cover but you don't want structure changes all the time based on opposition teams and players in your own line up that could change through injuries and suspensions.
If the centres in your roster are not dominant, aggressive, and clever, then up and in will fail every time
 

Ron E. Gibbs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
3,383
Souffs, who have the best backline in the NRL -- especially when you consider they are currently without Latrine, The Jet and Braidon Burns -- apparently still have sufficient money under the salary cap to chase Addo-Carr!
You can thank the medical retirements of Greg "Still Playing" Inglis and Sam "The Loveable English Rogue" Burgess for that. Great job, NRL!
 

BOZO

The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
2019 Tipping Competitor
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
17,869
If the centres in your roster are not dominant, aggressive, and clever, then up and in will fail every time
Up and in defensive lines and any defensive lines are ALWAYS turned inside out
by the GAME BREAKERS
that have the Speed and Skill to Kill
 

Peter C

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
2,802
You can thank the medical retirements of Greg "Still Playing" Inglis and Sam "The Loveable English Rogue" Burgess for that. Great job, NRL!
Who both coincidentally happened to be coffee drinking buddies with that last CEO of the NRL
 

BOZO

The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
2019 Tipping Competitor
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
17,869
I think this is a great comparism . While the cowboys results were poor , thurstons game rarely was. He led from the front, busted his gut , got put on his arse time and time again trying to create. In fact im pretty sure the nrl changed rules because of how heavily he was targetted.
With poor troops in the spine he was a champion. He wanted the ball when the game was on the line. He didnt shirk it ever

While dce was busy for some weeks near the end , when he had quality players like turbo and walker playing tough, he shirked it , plain and simple. Its why i said watch the earlier season games. Im pretty confident

While he ran around and was busy against poor quality opponents near the end of the season, he rarely took the ball in to the line, just sideways in what i think was self preservation.

Another thread asks why cameron smith never gets hurt, because of the game he plays. Cherry plays a similar style but without the effectiveness, calmness and skill that smith injects into a game/ result

Twice against the tigers he was hit hard and once against the titans. He resented that big time. It was memorable for me because i have watched for this for years.

His try assists used to come from sideways runs inside the opp 10 m line giving face balls to lane then sirro to crash over. Not this year and most of his assists came from the last 6 weeks

About mid season fox put stats up that since 2017 cherry had 2 more assists than ash taylor to that point over almost 3.5 seasons. Considering taylors long absences , lack of attacking spine players and stints in reggies its hardly the stuff of legends, let alone Thurston
Sorry to burst your bubble feathered friend but from what I remember Thurston had some off games as well during those down years .
 

jbb/james

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,132
Sorry to burst your bubble feathered friend but from what I remember Thurston had some off games as well during those down years .
[/QUO




Burst away bozo. Of corse he did. Every one does.
Its the difference between his best and worst that made him JT

had running battles with the inlaws over cows and manly for 20 years. I used to bag them about thurston being over paid and stopping them acquiring the players they needed to win. Eventually they unearther some cheapies. They never learnt and paid morgan the house

DCE is more of a morgan than a thurston. Right time , right place and boy have they been whooping it up for years about DCE and his salary. And to be honest i eat the pie that is humble because they are correct
 

manlyfan76

Parra Trolls are the best.
Premium Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
15,330
I think this is a great comparism . While the cowboys results were poor , thurstons game rarely was. He led from the front, busted his gut , got put on his arse time and time again trying to create. In fact im pretty sure the nrl changed rules because of how heavily he was targetted.
With poor troops in the spine he was a champion. He wanted the ball when the game was on the line. He didnt shirk it ever

While dce was busy for some weeks near the end , when he had quality players like turbo and walker playing tough, he shirked it , plain and simple. Its why i said watch the earlier season games. Im pretty confident

While he ran around and was busy against poor quality opponents near the end of the season, he rarely took the ball in to the line, just sideways in what i think was self preservation.

Another thread asks why cameron smith never gets hurt, because of the game he plays. Cherry plays a similar style but without the effectiveness, calmness and skill that smith injects into a game/ result

Twice against the tigers he was hit hard and once against the titans. He resented that big time. It was memorable for me because i have watched for this for years.

His try assists used to come from sideways runs inside the opp 10 m line giving face balls to lane then sirro to crash over. Not this year and most of his assists came from the last 6 weeks

About mid season fox put stats up that since 2017 cherry had 2 more assists than ash taylor to that point over almost 3.5 seasons. Considering taylors long absences , lack of attacking spine players and stints in reggies its hardly the stuff of legends, let alone Thurston
You read a lot into it, but what was JT's win /loss when in a sh!t team?

Missed every final.

And he's an immortal-in-waiting
 

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