Rugby Australia: A Cautionary Tale

[MadMarcus]

I reckon it’ll be a long time before RU go after another Leaguie. Izzy is the only one who really succeeded on the field, and he’s turned out to be the biggest liability off it (he makes the signings of Dell and Lote look like good ideas!).

 

[KOMORI]

Couldn’t care either way about what Izzy said, and apparently about 75% is aimed squarely at me..

I do get a hearty lol out of the irony, and the hypocrisy, of the way people who seem to be be offended at his statements, feel free to insult and attack him as harshly as possibly... pot? Kettle?? Anyone??

 

[eaglebuzz]

They have been very deliberate in sanitising their facebook page over the past few months, that's for sure. The post with a picture of Raelene Castle has 42 comments but only 2 of them are visible...

They have alienated half of their fan base with the Folau decision. All they had to say was that his views don't reflect those of Rugby Australia, and leave it at that.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Rugby Australia: A Cautionary Tale

How about - this thread is a cautionary tale about assuming that comments on some obscure on-line story carry any significance or evidential weight!!

50,000 Frenchmen can't be wrong blah blah blah

 

[lsz]

Social media (combined with talk back radio) is always an accurate reflection of the social mood

 

[Class of 96]

Politicising sport will always end badly, and deservedly so.

 

[Cioran]

For Qantas I imagine it comes down to a calculation of whether the pink dollar or the Christian dollar is worth more to them. Gay men have more disposable income but christian families are bigger. Qantas offers high cost seats - compared to other carriers- so large Christian families are more likely to fly with cheaper airlines. Gay men are more likely to buy up market seats in Buisness or First. No wonder they are morally outraged by Israel’s comments.

 

[eagle abroad]

Personally if there are fundamentalist cretins, sorry Christians, out there that think that that loathsome, hypocritical halfwit Folau has been wronged for voicing his ridiculously medieval, illogical bile, then Australian rugby is better off without them.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools"

 

[Tragic Eagle]

This has become more than just about Israel Folau. Whether we like it or not what the ARU sought to do was to muzzle Christian beliefs. The ARU have advocated that you can play Rugby Union if you are a Christian but you must keep beliefs to yourself. Nearly 52% of Australians (According to the 2016 census) identify as Christians. What a brilliant way to divide a community. The ARU depends on Elite Schools rather than clubs to develop future stars. Elite Christian Schools include St Jospehs (Catholic), Knox Grammar (Uniting Church) , St Aloysius (Catholic), Shore (Church of England), Newington (Uniting Church), Kings (Anglican Church) and many more throughout Australia. What happens to to Rugby if these elite Christian Schools stop participating in Rugby and start playing AFL or another sport as their premium sport. The magnitude of the mistake made by the ARU in the management of this matter is monumental and a bit like cutting off one of your legs and expecting to be able to run. Short term they might think they are keeping their sponsors happy but the sponsors will jump ship when the game is dying. Add to that those that are not religious but big on civil rights such as freedom of speech. The swell of opposition is not in support of Falou personally but rather the ARU attacking Christian beliefs and values and punishing a person for advocating them. It is a pretty poor business model to alienate your grass roots and significantly divide more than half of your followers. Frankly the way the ARU managed this situation was absolute business madness. It is a little naive to simplify this issue by only identifying it with Israel Folau. The NRL are hell bent on pleasing their broadcasters and need to place more value on the grass roots of the game and the true followers of the game. Whilst the NRL are not upsetting any religious groups at present they are neglecting their grass roots and ignoring their supporters by not fixing up the inconsistent administration and officiating of the game thus not seriously recognizing that the longevity of the game is not guaranteed.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

I reckon it’ll be a long time before RU go after another Leaguie. Izzy is the only one who really succeeded on the field, and he’s turned out to be the biggest liability off it (he makes the signings of Dell and Lote look like good ideas!).

They’ve just signed Tepai Moeroa who is going to win them the bledisloe

 

[globaleagle]

They’ve just signed Tepai Moeroa who is going to win them the bledisloe

This guy could win the Bledisloe.

 

[47MVEagle]

This has become more than just about Israel Folau. Whether we like it or not what the ARU sought to do was to muzzle Christian beliefs. The ARU have advocated that you can play Rugby Union if you are a Christian but you must keep beliefs to yourself. Nearly 52% of Australians (According to the 2016 census) identify as Christians. What a brilliant way to divide a community.

I dont know if they sought to muzzle Christian beliefs or if they sought to stop Folau offending part of their audience?

Also in regards to that 52% of Australians identifying as Christians, I daresay a lot of that 52% are non-practising & even more are "moderate" in that they dont subscribe to Folau's fundamentalist views, so would they necessarily feel solidarity with Folau & that his (& their) beliefs are being infringed upon by RA?

All I know is it's become a big, political mess but I honestly don't know how RA could have handled it any differently?

Their employee broke the rules of his contract, he was warned but did it again, they met to mediate & gave him the choice of removing the offending material from his social media or have his contract terminated.

In my opinion he was fairly dismissed.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

This has become more than just about Israel Folau. Whether we like it or not what the ARU sought to do was to muzzle Christian beliefs. The ARU have advocated that you can play Rugby Union if you are a Christian but you must keep beliefs to yourself. Nearly 52% of Australians (According to the 2016 census) identify as Christians. What a brilliant way to divide a community. The ARU depends on Elite Schools rather than clubs to develop future stars. Elite Christian Schools include St Jospehs (Catholic), Knox Grammar (Uniting Church) , St Aloysius (Catholic), Shore (Church of England), Newington (Uniting Church), Kings (Anglican Church) and many more throughout Australia. What happens to to Rugby if these elite Christian Schools stop participating in Rugby and start playing AFL or another sport as their premium sport. The magnitude of the mistake made by the ARU in the management of this matter is monumental and a bit like cutting off one of your legs and expecting to be able to run. Short term they might think they are keeping their sponsors happy but the sponsors will jump ship when the game is dying. Add to that those that are not religious but big on civil rights such as freedom of speech. The swell of opposition is not in support of Falou personally but rather the ARU attacking Christian beliefs and values and punishing a person for advocating them. It is a pretty poor business model to alienate your grass roots and significantly divide more than half of your followers. Frankly the way the ARU managed this situation was absolute business madness. It is a little naive to simplify this issue by only identifying it with Israel Folau. The NRL are hell bent on pleasing their broadcasters and need to place more value on the grass roots of the game and the true followers of the game. Whilst the NRL are not upsetting any religious groups at present they are neglecting their grass roots and ignoring their supporters by not fixing up the inconsistent administration and officiating of the game thus not seriously recognizing that the longevity of the game is not guaranteed.

Thanks Alan.

Somehow I doubt if those church schools you mentioned would be too keen on siding with the rantings of a not too bright ‘Christian’ fundamentalist. They could lose funds too, from parents taking their kids out of said schools for starters. Most of them are there to receive a perceived higher standard of education - not that many of them are anything to write home about on the scholastic front. I’m sure for most parents, the religious stuff is a second or third order priority. If that.

The outlandish beliefs of Christian fundamentalists are at odds with many mainstream clergy, at least in this country. These days they tend to take a more pragmatic view re: the Bible’s contents and prefer to concentrate on the positive teachings, rather than the hell and damnation stuff.

The latter is so obviously an invention of the Middle Ages, when the Church in Europe served as society’s moral and legal guardian, before the full impact of lawmaking and separation of church and state evolved through the centuries (think Magna Carta as an early step along that road) to give us a more nuanced system of moral, ethical and legal guidelines, than just adhering to the Ten Commandments.

I can’t recall the last time that even a senior Catholic figure has said anything about gay people burning in hell. Can you? Maybe JPII did during his papacy, but probably not as harshly as Folau. Especially now when they have been exposed as hypocrites, where some of their own people have done repugnant things to vulnerable children, under conditions of ‘loco parentis’, over many decades and no doubt centuries. And they’re not alone.

Apparently some of what Folau states is not even attributable to Jesus, but one of his disciples. There was an opinion piece by a well-qualified theologian on this subject in yesterday’s SMH. I commend it to you.

 

[manlyfan76]

Under 8% of Aussie's go to church weekly.
So of the 50 odd % of claimed Catholics only a handful are true supporters.

 

[Class of 96]

I tend to apply the pub test. The vast majority of non practising christians and atheists (and those falling between the cracks) that frequent the local were unanimous in their disagreement with the stunt pulled by the ARU/Qantas. I tick most of Folau’s boxes of leading a less than honourable life destined to arrive in the mythical land of tropical warmth, but honestly, it just didn’t bother me or anyone i spoke to. Hell (excuse the pun), it is worn as a badge of honour. Anyway, a lot of ado about nothing. The tyranny of the PC brigade, and add to that mix, the axe grinders pursuing agendas.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

How long before this gets moved/merged to the general forum? (again)

 

[BOZO]

We all have our views on freedom of speech and I am fan of Professor of Psychology Jordan Peterson

Jordan Peterson puts freedom of speech in to full perspective ....

" So the rule is we cant offend any one.......
Lets say you are speaking to one person , I cant offend you . All right fair enough ...
What if i am speaking to 10 people ? Do i get to offend 1 in 10 ?
How about 1 in 100 ?
How about 1 in 1000 ?
You are going to come on stage and you are going to say something important about something vital and you are not going to offend one person in 1000 ?
Well , you cant say anything ever without offending ..

 

[MuzztheEagle]

We all have our views on freedom of speech and I am fan of Professor of Psychology Jordan Peterson

Jordan Peterson puts freedom of speech in to full perspective ....

" So the rule is we cant offend any one.......
Lets say you are speaking to one person , I cant offend you . All right fair enough ...
What if i am speaking to 10 people ? Do i get to offend 1 in 10 ?
How about 1 in 100 ?
How about 1 in 1000 ?
You are going to come on stage and you are going to say something important about something vital and you are not going to offend one person in 1000 ?
Well , you cant say anything ever without offending ..

I agree, but this isn't an issue of free speech - he wasn't censored and his post is still there.
This was an issue about how his conduct reflected onto his employer and then became a contract / business issue. Whether this was the right decision or carried out in the correct manner is debatable. But it ain't about free speech. If it was, then businesses across the country would be at the mercy of their employees and that would be against the ideals of a free market (which many who are pushing the free speech argument would be quick to defend if it suited their particular agendas)

 

[BOZO]

I agree, but this isn't an issue of free speech - he wasn't censored and his post is still there.
This was an issue about how his conduct reflected onto his employer and then became a contract / business issue. Whether this was the right decision or carried out in the correct manner is debatable. But it ain't about free speech. If it was, then businesses across the country would be at the mercy of their employees and that would be against the ideals of a free market (which many who are pushing the free speech argument would be quick to defend if it suited their particular agendas)

Jordan Peterson concludes ...

 

[BOZO]

Quote
Imagine if the government DEMANDS that you call an Apple, a pear, when it's really an Apple. If you don't comply you get sent to jail. This is what JP is talking about.. Mandatory compelled Speech goes against Free Speech.